Mattris

Satisfied and vindicated. How about you?

I deny that TFA heavily suggested that Rey was somehow part of the Skywalker bloodline. People assumed that was the case because the previous two trilogies featured a Skywalker as the hero/protagonist that Rey would also be a Skywalker. On its surface, TFA seemed to be a remake of ANH: a young Force-strong protagonist character from a desert planet who seems to be on a Hero's Journey, droid with a crucial clue for the Rebels, the father/mentor figure killed, a planet-destroying super-weapon destroyed by a squadron of Rebel ships, a tall/dark/Force-strong villain, etc. But people have been deceived.
 
Rey means well... but is defiant, selfish, and possesses or gains specialized skills with no training shown. She gains proficiency using the Force with no instruction, although she was unaware of the Force her entire life. Apart from Finn obsessively wanting to help her, the only person that she has required help from is Ben Solo, who could have killed her on multiple occasions had this been his desire.
 
Just like the film itself, the first full TFA trailer did not imply that Rey was a Skywalker. We know Ben Solo is of Skywalker lineage, so Luke's "The Force is strong in my family... You have that power too." should only be assumed to be directed at Ben. We hear Luke speaking again in the TROS teaser. Rey shown on-screen as Luke is speaking is no proof or indication of anything. It should be assumed that Luke's words, once again, are directed at Ben Solo, who Luke trained as a Jedi for over a decade. "We've passed on all we know. A thousand generations live in you now."
 
The films have been quite clear: Rey has been assigned no lineage. Peoples' assumptions have them confused. It is obvious to me that this was JJ's intention.
 
 
Rey will not be of Skywalker blood. TROS will reveal that she is a creation of Palpatine, who will (finally) be confirmed to have created Anakin, as well. Of this, I am all but certain.

Kylo said Rey 'came from nothing, that she's nothing'. Rey said herself that her parents were "nobody". If those statements were not true, then either her parents are someone of significance... or she was created, most likely by someone using the Force. One, the other, or both of these revelations in IX would absolutely be classified as 'twists'.

@Pellaeon Please tell me you're not serious.
 
You think in 'mystery box' JJ Abrams' trilogy to end the Star Wars Saga, the only twist in the final episode was intentionally revealed before the film was released? No further explanation for Rey's existence in this trilogy? All 'goody' characters survive? An ending identical to Return of the Jedi, in which Kylo "turns good at the end"?
 
Where's the "epitome of good verses evil" that Kathleen Kennedy promised? Do you not understand that the Sequel Trilogy will be an utter failure if your predictions are correct? JJ would have to hang up his hat!

Can you prove which story elements weren't planned by George Lucas early on... or from the very beginning?
 
 
Maul, Dooku, and Grievous were not real villains - only 'side baddies' - just as Snoke was. Palpatine is the villain... always has been. Etcetra? Do tell.

 
"You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could." The TFA novelization adds "With your help."
 
"You're afraid... that you will never be as strong as Darth Vader!"
 
"Forgive me. I feel it again... the pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again... the power of the darkness, and I'll let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started."
 
"I'm being torn apart. I know what I have to do, but I don't know it I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?"
 
 
- After all of the in-canon evidence I've presented, do you think that JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan had no specific meaning in mind for those lines... and were going to allow the canon writers, Rian Johnson, or Lucasfilm Story Group to define their meaning?
 
- Do you think those lines will be revealed to have significant meaning in Episode IX?
 
- What evidence do you have that indicates that "they're really not" "part of some grand plot scheme"?
 
- If they were not "great pieces of set-up for the final film", why do you think they were written to sound so ambiguous, yet intriguing?
 
- What do you mean by "all of them were from previous films".
 
- How could JJ Abrams "retcon some of them" if he didn't have a plan for them?
 
- How would JJ Abrams go about "stating them as part of some grand plot scheme" and maintain his mysterious approach to film-making, of which he is famously known?
 
 
@Chen G. I look forward to you answers to these individual questions.

@mstrox You're looking in the wrong place. The clues are in the films and canon material.
 
A ScreenRant article complied some of the evidence of Palptine's return being foreshadowed. In one of the featured excerpts from the novel Aftermath: Empire's End, Yupe Tashu - a Sith cultist who had been one of the Emperor's closest advisers - and Gallius Rax - a close aide who planned to take over the Empire for himself - conducted a mysterious ceremony, which included a Sith mask and Holocron. Standing on a walkway above a chasm on Jakku, they spoke of Palpatine's return:
 
Tashu gambols down in front of the artifacts, his fingertips dancing along their cases. He mutters to himself, and Rax sees that he's chewed his own lips bloody. "Are you ready?" he asks Palpatine's old adviser.
 
"I am," Tashu says, turning. His cheeks are wet with tears. His teeth slick with red. "Palpatine lives on. We will find him again out there in the dark. Everything has arranged itself as our Master foretold. All things move toward the grand design. The sacrifices have all been made."
 
Not all of them, Rax thinks.
 
"You must be clothed in the raiment of darkness," Rax says. "The mantle of the dark side is yours to wear, at least for a time. At least until we can find Palpatine and revivify him, bringing his soul back to flesh anew."
 
Ironically, just as Darth Vader betrayed Palpatine on the Death Star, Rax betrayed Tashu on Jakku. He pushed Tashu down the chasm, where he fell to his death... the Sith artifacts in hand. All this occurred within a year of Palpatine's 'death', during the Battle of Jakku.
 
 
Some of my own canon clue finds: Palpatine personally named Galius Rax as the "first body" of his Contingency.
 
From The Force Awakens novelization, from Rey's mind:  "Death displays nothing if not a variety in its methods, which are often surprising and sometimes amusing."
 
In The Last Jedi novelization, Rose Tico accused Finn of 'heavy pinning for Rey':
 
"You were ready to abandon the Resistance to help her. How can one person mean more to you than a whole cause?"
"I was raised in an army to fight for a cause. Then I met Rey. And for the first time I had someone I cared about to fight for. That's who I wanted to be."
"When she comes back, will she be a Jedi like in the stories? Brown robes, little rat tail?"
"No. Rey a Jedi? Nah."
"But she'll be different."
"No," he insisted. Rey would always be Rey. He was sure of it, and a little annoyed by Rose's failure to see that.
"She's on her own path. You need to find yours."
"Thank you, wise master Rose."
"Any time, youngling."
"When I see her again she'll just be Rey."
 
 
It should come as no surprise that these excerpts align with my theory... because I used them to construct it.

Nice try, @Score, but just seeing the movie will not prove anything, as you could easily claim, "The ending to the Saga made sense... but they didn't plan it." What specific - or general - evidence will you believe to conclude that Lucasfilm had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy from the beginning?
 
Also, you failed to address Lucasfilm's conflicting messaging regarding their 'plan'... or lack thereof.

@Score  I posed two questions:
 
1. What evidence would you believe that indicates Lucasfilm had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy from its inception?
2. Do you understand why Kennedy, Johnson, and Abrams have released conflicting messaging on this matter? (Or... Why do think they released conflicting messaging regarding a 'plan'?)
 
Instead of answering, you advised me to "just wait a couple of months!" and said "There is absolutely no logical way to know it beforehand, because none of us witnessed the meetings between the creators". Witnessing meetings is not required to use logic based on the evidence at hand. The evidence I presented was wide-ranging, and all of the events and statements that I recalled - from the films, canon, and real-world - are true.
 
You also said "basically anything else can be done and justified within the context of the story." This is not the case, as JJ Abrams is limited by what has occurred in the previous films... and technically, the new canon material. He can not do "anything", and he even issued a statement: "If you look at the first eight films, all the set-ups of what we’re in IX are there in plain view."
 
I never said that I "can decipher with absolute certainty" or that I "expect them to do exactly what I think because ... logic dictates it". I used the information (facts) at hand to construct a basic theory for how the Saga might end. Quite frankly, I don't think a more "satisfying" (JJ's assurance) or shocking conclusion to the Saga can be written, but I certainly would welcome it. We shall see.
 
And yes, I do have a "plausible conclusion" to the story of my theory for Episode IX. Answer my two questions, and I'll post it. Short answers are fine.

What evidence would you believe that indicates Lucasfilm had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy once TFA had completed pre-production? Do you understand why Kennedy, Johnson, and Abrams have released conflicting messaging on this matter?

No, @Chen G., it's you who are not getting it. My argument has no holes. Logic dictates that the filmmakers had a plan for the Sequel Trilogy from the beginning. The specific plot elements (and lines) in the films and canon are the evidence. They couldn't have been 'making it up as they go' since all of the dozens of canon works link together... impossible if there wasn't an over-arching plan for the principal characters and story, elements of which the Lucasfilm Story Group provided to the canon writers for elaboration.
 
After reading my logical explanations, what makes you think the filmmakers didn't have those plot elements in their minds as they were making The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi? Skepticism and contradiction are not valid arguments.

Then you, like so many others, have been fooled. I expect Episode IX and its aftermath to be quite the journey to enlightenment... after the long road of ignorance, denial, and deceit.

Had Lucasfilm stated that they had a plan early on, the mystery and intrigue would have been severely diminished... and that's not JJ Abrams' style. Their current claims directly contradict their earlier ones. That's part of the trick to keep the audience confused and distracted.
 
They were either lying before ('No plan.') or they're lying now ('We've had a plan.'). All real-world evidence points to the former being the case.
 
My cIaims are based on factual evidence. After all that I've presented, @Chen G. , why continue to deny the obvious?

That's just it. Early on, they did not want to claim credit for their plan. In fact, they made it a point to say they didn't have a plan... on multiple occasions. This - on top of the 'fact' that TFA was a 'basically remake of ANH with a Mary Sure character' - led to significant pubic confusion and discourse.
 
This was their strategy from the start of it all: People (fans) would believe their lies ('No plan for the Sequel Trilogy.'), and later think their 'We actually had a plan all along.' claims were a lie. All evidence indicates that this is part of the 'grand plan' to keep the masses confused and upset going into IX... at which point they'll be blown away, having not seen any of it coming. (That is, unless you were able to decode their swath of clues, rewarding those who took the time and effort to consume the canon, ponder the films' events/lines, watch their interviews, Twitter feeds, etc.)

Sure, the early canon novels feature tons of clues. Star Wars: Aftermath: Empire's End is a Star Wars novel by Chuck Wendig, published on February 21, 2017. It is the third book of the Aftermath trilogy, set after the events of Return of the Jedi.
 
Immediately after the The Rise of Skywalker teaser was released:
 
The book features Palpatine before his 'death', as well as details of his Contingency. The second book in the trilogy, Aftermath: Life Debt (published July 12, 2016), also contains pertinent Palpatine backstory, scenes, and references.

It should be obvious that "logical and simple" have not been Lucasfilm's modem operandi as of late. The fact is, you have no idea how "these movies are made" and have presented no evidence to support your 'no plan' theory. (Pointing to George Lucas' approach doesn't count.) On the other hand, I have presented a vast array of evidence of a "master plan at work". You might want to do more than 'skim my arguments'.
 
Abrams' and Kennedy's latest comments make it clear that they did have a plan, so actually "you are the one making extraordinary claims and the burden of proof rests squarely and solely on your shoulders." Also, I did not say this story had "been planned out for 40 years" - only that this trilogy's story and primary characters were planned during the pre-production of TFA.
 
What you call "wild speculation around every comment" from those making current Star Wars, I call decoding their intentionally-presented clues. My approach is merited, as Daisy Ridley said in a produced bit for Good Morning America after Star Wars Celebration: 'Our comments now don't seem to make sense, but later, you'll be like, Oh, that's what they meant by that!'  So claiming "the comments these people make to the media aren’t usually true hints at anything, they’re just random nonsense meant to get people excited about the movie" has been specifically addressed and squashed by the lead actress. So not only are they giving us clues to their plan, they're telling us that they're giving clues.
 
Yes, "this stuff" is marketing. Shame nearly everyone thinks the stuff means nothing when these film makers are utilizing grossly unorthodox methods at every turn to draw attention to their trIXie plan for the Sequel Trilogy. This includes Bob Iger saying that George Lucas felt "betrayed" when his Sequel Trilogy treatments weren't used... in his book released just 3 months before release of Episode IX.
 
If you think Lucasfilm's approach to marketing "is to sell more tickets", you are completely out of touch, as a significant percentage of Star Wars fans would be happy to scrub this trilogy from canon if they could. I say that Disney/Lucasfilm expected fans' ignorant/upset/confused frame of mind - even counted on it - as the unexpected grandeur of Episode IX will only smack the unsuspecting audience that much harder.
 
"Here’s a tip for you." Criticizing my use of "big words" only makes you look petty. John Williams used "cornucopia" while introducing his Harry Potter music back in 2002, so pardon me for using it in this forum.

@rough cut Do you have any evidence that supports the 'no plan for the Sequel Trilogy' theory? Saying George Lucas didn't have a plan for the OT doesn't count.
 
 
Without evidence, Chen claims that the especially intriguing lines of dialog in TFA - as they occur during major scenes - had no intended meaning... and that John Williams wasn't told anything about the story or characters of the trilogy (in order to reference in his score) because, he insists, there was no plan for the Saga-ending Sequel Trilogy, even when a cornucopia of evidence (including basic logic) points to the contrary.
 
Chen also said it was "absolutely adorable that think Kylo was always planning on betraying Snoke" and that "its cute that you want to treat them as some great pieces of set-up for the final film, but they're really not" without providing evidence.
 
 
I said that George Lucas was a master at crafting stories. Screenwriting, a major issue of the Prequel Trilogy, is not the same thing. The Prequels could have been significantly better films had the scripts been polished, a different young Anakin cast (His second choice would have been perfect!), no Jar Jar Binks (or any foolish characters featured), and Episodes II and III utilizing much less (obvious) green-screen and significant reliance on CGI.

Well, let's see. My position is supported by...
 
- Palpatine and Darth Vader being mentioned - or heavily featured - in every form of canon material (dating back to the earliest volumes).
- The fact that a prominent saga-spanning story through-line exists, with a substantial amount of evidence from the films and canon material that elaborates and ties-in to the films.
- The fact that Palpatine was the primary villain in the third installment of the other trilogies.
- The death of Snoke in VIII, making way for Palpatine to be the primary villain in IX.
- Hints of the Emperor and Vader's themes within Rey's Theme, as well as the scores. (With The Emperor's Theme played prominently, note-for-note in TLJ during a major scene.)
- The fact that no explanation for Rey has been presented, while it has been heavily implied that Anakin was Force-created by Palpatine (and even explicitly stated by Palpatine in an pre-shooting script for ROTS).
- The unfulfilling deaths of Han and Luke.
- Simple logic: With so much at stake - including professional legacies, billions in (potential lost) revenue, and the support of a massive, passionate fandom - the film-makers would not have approached a trilogy of this magnitude film-to-film without a basic story and the character arcs and motivations locked in.
- Rian Johnson and other Lucasfilm employees infamous for antagonizing and trolling disenchanted/confused fans. ("Manbabies", "assholes", "We don't care.", Fanboy Tears mugs, etc.)
- Lucasfilm allowing the mainstream / access media to run with generalizing / false narratives (The upset fans are racist and sexist!) without issuing any form of appeasement or reassurance.
- The very latest comments from Lucasfilm President and trilogy Executive producer, stating that they planned Palpatine's return and left 'set-ups in plain view' in the films.
- The fact that writer/producer/director JJ Abrams is well known to be the keeper of the 'Mystery Box', with major surprises and twist endings in all of his projects.
- The shooting title for Episode IX was trIXie. (They even bragged about making 'trIXie' shirts for the cast and crew.)
- The title of the final film of the saga is The Rise of Skywalker.
 
"If they had the bloody thing figured out, why would each film need pre-production time? Why would they need to write a script for each film individually?" Simple: Disney/Lucasfilm pre-established that the films would be released two years apart, with a vast amount of canon material to be released in the interim. No need to rush the production of the films and make them all in one go. Focusing on each film, one at a time, two years apart, allowed a less hectic approach so they could make sure they achieved their story-telling goals.
 
Kathleen Kennedy's 'making it up as they go' comment was simply a lighthearted call-back to a line from Raiders of the Lost Ark. It is not proof that they hadn't conceived the basic story outline and main character arcs. Lucasfilm just hadn't worked out the plot details, minor characters, or scripts. And the films did not have "different filmmakers each". It was just JJ and Rian Johnson, with JJ receiving Executive Producer credit on all of them. (In all likelihood, Abrams and Kasdan conceived the basic story outline for the trilogy, with Johnson adding new characters and details for the middle film that he directed. Then with a two year break, JJ was always planned to return for the final episode.)
 
Making the Sequel Trilogy "cheaper" was clearly not Lucasfilm's goal. Nor was presenting the trilogy in this manner designed for maximum short-term profit. With an incredibly divided, unenthusiastic, and confused fandom going into IX, this should be obvious.

@Chen G. You were wrong when you said Williams just "shows up, sees reels of film, and starts composing. He doesn't read scripts and doesn't attend story meetings: he only scores what's in front of him on the screen". You were wrong about Palpatine returning and it being a good idea. You will be proven wrong about underestimating Abrams ('No plan.') and Williams ('No clues within Rey's Theme.'). I'm shocked that you claimed that the musical similarities in Rey's Theme are "like saying that the words Empire and Jedi are etymologically connected because they both feature the characters e and i." What an ignorant, uneducated claim.
 
Mark my words, you will be proven wrong about everything.

December 2015, JJ revealed that he and Lawrence Kasdan "set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going."
 
Everyone at Lucasfilm – knows that Palpatine is the villain of the Saga. Due to the reveals in TROS, it's clear that nothing in TLJ negatively affected the originally-intended pay-offs of the trilogy. Nothing.
 
A few months before TROS was released, JJ was clear, once again: “The story that we're telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did ‘The Force Awakens’ was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about.”
 
 
JJ said that TFA was intended to 'be based more on emotion than explanation.' The Last Jedi continued the story, as planned:
 
- As supposed by Han, Luke had secluded himself, utterly dejected after what happened with one of his students and Jedi training school.
- Rey further exuded dark side tendencies and was not trained by Luke as a Jedi.
- Kylo and Rey discovered their Force bond.
- Kylo betrayed Snoke and became Supreme Leader of the First Order.
- Kylo, once again, asked Rey to join him so they could lead a new order. She refused him again.
- Kylo and Hux become further at odds, with both men becoming unhinged in their efforts to maintain control of the First Order.
- The Resistance, still under the command of Leia, was weakened to the brink of destruction... but was saved by Luke Skywalker, who apologized to Ben and 'took on the First Order with a laser sword'.
 
These character/plot progressions had to happen to set-up the conclusion of the trilogy. Assuming that Johnson diverged from the beaten path implies that another story was intended by JJ and Kasdan. If not...
 
... was Palpatine, the villain of the Saga, not influencing Ben Solo his entire life through Vader's helmet, Snoke, and the Force?
... Ben Solo, the last Skywalker, not intended to be redeemed, having used the Force to stop a loved one from dying?
... was mystery girl Rey not a Palpatine, to explain her very purpose to exist in the trilogy?

The first five notes of Kylo's motif are five notes in a row from the primary melody of The Emperor's Theme... Kylo ends up having been manipulated by Palpatine... and you think John Williams just wrote Kylo's motif just to be "musically consistent" in a 'Star Warsy kind of sound'? I'm sorry, but you clearly have no clue how ignorant you sound. The mere suggestion that John Williams did not intend this direct connection is, quite frankly, absurd. I have trouble believing that you - of all people - elvisjones, don't understand John Williams' thematic composition style. He is a genius because he used five notes in a row from The Emperor's Theme - while few people in the world noticed - and it turns out the they were related ideas specifically because "they were meant to be that way from the beginning". The fact that Palpatine returned confirms: It was all planned.
 
JJ and (Episodes V and VI co-writer) Kasdan said 'they knew were things were going'. JJ was the Executive Producer on VIII and said that it "didn't really derail anything that we were thinking about."
 
No, Colin Trevorrow was NOT the one who brought Palpatine to the table. When he said in 2019, “Bringing back the Emperor was an idea JJ brought to the table when he came on board. It’s honestly something I never considered. I commend him for it. This was a tough story to unlock, and he found the key,” he was being honest. JJ brought the Emperor to the table when “he came on board” in 2013. Mr. Trevorrow “never considered” the Emperor, Kylo's redemption, or Rey as a Palpatine because he was told not to. His Episode IX pre-production was clearly a brainstorming exercise... and a distraction.
 
So no, you cannot "confirm" anything. I'm sorry to say, you don't know what you're talking about. I'll bet you don't even realize the primary purpose of the trilogy (from a story standpoint). But don't worry, few do.
 
 
Oh, don't worry. He cracked the story. So well, in fact, that few noticed.
 
 
What story threads are unresolved? I thought that JJ was quite decisive and substantive with these films.
 
 
Apart from 'Finn turning good', every word of what you just said... was wrong.
 
 
Trust me, JJ was always coming back. He just took a break after a busy three years.
 
 
It's a Call To Adventure - not a "call back to adventure". Luke already had a Call To Adventure and had become a Hero. Episode VIII reveals he had become the Hero Fallen From Grace.
 
The roadmap existed, proven by every available fact (all the films of the Saga, the canon, music clues, JJ's statements, etc.) This "made up film-to-film as they went along" theory is complete and utter nonsense based entirely in rumor, speculation, and ignorance. 
 
 
What about TROS'  story progression is incoherent or illogical?
 
 
Rey never sought "riches". Her story was one of self-discovery: She did come from an important lineage... and decided to confront her fear (of herself) and kill her grandfather. That's what happened.
 
 
RJ did not "solve" anything.
Hamill is not a "fan" - nor is he angry.
 
 
She failed to control her fear and anger multiple times in every film.
 
 
JJ's "direction" to Rian Johnson was mostly done off-screen.

Every single filmmaker? Who? Please provide direct quotes.
 
I don't doubt that the films were written separately. But Lucasfilm had a basic roadmap for the trilogy from the beginning -- indicated by the (all of the) films, canon material, music, and multiple quotes from JJ.

That's not a like-for-like comparison, as Luke and ET are unrelated characters in different franchises. Kylo turned out to have been manipulated by The Emperor himself. This means that John Williams theme for Kylo - with five notes in a row the same - wasn't a coincidence at all.
 
 
Re: The melody of The Emperor's Theme, look/listen to measure 7 and the first note of 8. It's the first five notes of Kylo's motif, exactly.
 
 
True, as evidenced by the abundance of negative / controversial / awkward comments from Disney/Lucasfilm employees to the fans... and about The Last Jedi... two and a half years after the movie was released. Something's not right here.
 
 
That's not paraphrasing. You simply got the term wrong. And in this case, the difference is HUGE. Joseph Campbell created no 'Call Back To Adventure'. If it exists, it certainly wasn't used in The Last Jedi.
 
 
Saying that 'you know what you're taking about' when you are directly contradicting me means, that 'I must not know what I'm talking about.'
 
'Ignorant' is not a name, elvisjones. It's just means that someone is unaware of certain factual information.
 
 
December 2015, JJ said, “The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman (the producer of VIII). They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well."
 
He also said, “The story that we’re telling, the story that we started to conceive when we did Force Awakens, was allowed to continue. Episode VIII didn’t really derail anything that we were thinking about."
 
At SWC 2019, Kathleen Kennedy confirmed that Emperor Palaptine's return had been planned "from the beginning".

JJ was confirmed as director and co-writer January 2013. The screenplay for TFA was completed January 2014. That's when Palpatine's influence and return was locked in.
 
@Chen G., could you link that Chris Terrio quote, please?
 
Any thoughts on the first five notes of Kylo's motif being five notes in a row from The Emperor's Theme?
 
 
The dark side came naturally to Rey. She rarely controlled her selfish tendencies and anger, and it led to moments of rage that put herself and others in danger.
 
That's just it. Rey wasn't "off the hook", as she never changed. Going into her confrontation with the Emperor, she had good reason to fear herself.

This thread with Mattris slipping in and out of troll/conspiratorial mode:
 

Its not "miserable", but yeah, I never got what people were expecting instead. It was crystal clear Luke was going to spend the bulk of Episode VIII consumed by guilt and grief, and even without the flashback it was very compelling.

JJ provided him with a fairly legitimate reason: "One boy, an apprentice, turned against him [and killed everyone else]. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away."
 
Johnson just went along with that (plus the added "twist" of Luke having contemplated killing Kylo - which I like). But the set-up is all Abrams'.