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Monoverantus last won the day on July 24 2022

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  1. Hell yes! The first time I heard "Out of Bree" from the Rarities CD was so satisfying, because my mind immediately recognised the material from that game. It was like getting the answer to a question I had never asked.
  2. This wouldn't surprise me at all, not the least considering how it's supposedly derived from The History of the the Ring, which wouldn't have been an established theme at the time either. I don't blame you, for neither of those tracks has the distinctive "half-step up-and-down, then whole-step down" contour that defines the motif. In Flight to the Ford and The Pass of Caradhras, it's "whole-step up-and-down, then half-step down". And in Balin's Tomb, it's based on this Doug quote: "Interspersed with Dwarrowdelf is the down-and-back opening of the Fellowship theme, but in a minor mode and affixed with a fourth melodic tone that inches the figure closer to Evil Times." This shape, C-Bb-C-G, is so far removed from the original motif that I straight up don't understand the connection...
  3. Very well done! Although I'm 100% fine with what Shore did, I'm impressed that such a little touch feels cohesive with the rest of the score without being too on the nose. I had never sat down and analysed that rejected part from At the Sign of the Prancing Pony, but it was well worth it: The transition from the Five-Beat Pattern to the unusued material uses the same vi-IV progression that we hear at the Gates of Moria and the end of History of the Ring at Rauros, plus other classic Shore material like rising fifths and Mt Doom chords.
  4. I can get behind this, and the opposite as well. I think the Theatrical cuts all have one scene too few; FOTR should've included the Gift-giving scene, TTT Faramir and Boromir's backstory, and ROTK Saruman's death.
  5. Someone should send this to Peter. Will settle a lot of arguments
  6. I'm honestly a lot more lenient towards breaking the canon when it comes to games (Shadow of Mordor, BfME 1 and 2, War of the Ring). Interactivity, by default, dispells the illusion that you're engaging with a 100% faithful adaptation.
  7. Interesting point. I think a case could be made that giving Galadriel's brassy theme to Númenor and Númenor's exotic theme to Galadriel would be more in line with Shore's artistic vision.
  8. Curious. Bear's said several times that he's tried to keep the lyrics more faithful to the vocabularies of Tolkien than to go the Jackson-movies route of inventing new words, but all 3 of the lyric texts he's shared has several new words (especially the Khuzdul one). When asked, he specifically denied having collaborated with the people responsible for expanding the languages for the dialogue in the show. So where do they come from???
  9. I said what I meant. If Howard himself defects a certain authority to Doug, he is aware that he isn't a 100% reliable source. That's not an uncommon thing for creators of art of such magnificent scope (compare with GRR Martin admitting that he sometimes needs his assistants to remind him if he's killed off a certain minor character or not). "People are not infallible" should not be a controversial statement.
  10. To be clear, I said that "it's fine to let the audience interpret things if they exist to be interpreted". That's the main rub of this discussion as I see it, since I'm not 100% sure we can state "Every 2 minor chords a flat sixth apart is a reference to the Mt Doom theme" just because "The Pity of Gollum's 2 minor chords a flat sixth apart is a reference to the Mt Doom theme".
  11. I think we largely agree on this, a kind of "death of the author"-like approach where it's fine to let the audience interpret things if they exist to be interpreted, but Doug doesn't. During the One Ring streams I asked him, and he was very clear that he only cares about representing Howard's intentions as faithfully as possible. Of course, I appreciate this approach too. I'm OK with discussing and subscribing to all sorts of theories, but don't want to spread misinformation about what is or isn't "canon" information. That said, neither Howard nor Doug are infallible either. Howard has admitted to forgetting so many things that he's said (tbf probably jokingly) that Doug is a better expert on the scores than himself, and Doug has conveyed incomplete, incorrect or contradictory info at times too.
  12. This sort of discussion is one of many reasons I've considered making a whole video just about the hazy lines between intention and interpretation, which in this case would be the difference between what Shore intended, what Doug communicates, and what we believe. As far as I know, Shore himself has never talked about the Mount Doom theme (which can be said of many themes). Doug seems to have named it, and made the specific connection that the same chords appear in The Pity of Gollum. Then there's me, who's interpreted this as to mean the Mount Doom theme can be boiled down to just the chord progression (i.e. the Mount Doom chords), which to my mind brings thematic meaning to the other themes it appears in, like The Journey There, The Nameless Fear and Rivendell (in major). Even then, I'm hesitant to claim the chords have clear thematic meaning on their own, like the first two bars of The Passing of Théoden. Did Howard intend this? Is Doug right? Am I right? I don't know.
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