Adam

That's probably true.

Well he's scored The Family Stone, Looking for Comedy..., Muppets, Sky High, MI3 coming up. So he's been pretty busy film-wise it seems though some of those won't be mistaken for blockbusters to put it mildly. But with regard to the thread title, overrated implies that there’s some kind of critical consensus about him. There are a few scattered comments of people who overpraise him, who in turn make good strawmen for people who want to say he’s overrated. I’ve heard planty of unfair crtiticism of him also but I don’t call him underrated based on that. He’s barely started his career in Hollywood. He’s seems to be getting his other Hollywood projects like Family Stone, Mission Impossible, etc. based on what he did for The Incredibles - a lot of people took note of that. The director of The Family Stone falls all over himself praising Giacchino. He makes any comment I’ve seen here seem quite mild. - Adam

What? John Williams was sued over is JP theme? I had no idea, please indulge me Also, I've just been doing a google search and found some information about an earlier lawsuit between Williams and and a guy called Les Baxter, who claimed that with the theme of ET, Williams had plagiarised a section of earlier work by Baxter called "The Passions", namely a suite entitled "Joy". Williams came out of it unscathed, but the write-up did point out that there are indeed similarities between the two pieces, but that it was probably just unlucky coincidence on the part of Williams. Any information on this, or even a link to the "Joy" track? I'd like to compare, but an mp3 search has drawn a blank. I wish I could give you a link to the article but it does exist somewhere. I just remember that some guy said he wrote a song for his kid who died or something like that and was hurt to see that same tune in a big commercial film. And in order to sue and make money, he had to show that JW would have heard the tune which I guess he claimed JW did. But I don't totally trust my memory on this and I want to say the lawsuit was settled out of court which usually means both sides keep the details secret. I heard about the ET case also. I'm surprised there aren't more lawsuits, really. Considering all the music that has been written in the history of the world, it would be hard not to copy SOMETHING, usually by accident, when you try to come up with simple themes that work in the film. - Adam

I would pay for an expaneded disc just to have the unreleased alternate that was used for part of I Could Have Done More. However, I may be one of the few people in the world for which this true so I'm not expecting an expanded release anytime soon. I also prefer the two source cues in the movie over how they appear on the CD. Track 6, having a piano backing and track 12 having a guitar backing in the movie. In all 3 cases, the film versions are more sentimental but very pretty. Other than that, its the cue you mentioned with the expanded portion and I don't remember that being too important for me. With regard to the poll, the film didn't involve me like I would have wanted so, in this case, I guess I agree with at least some of the films' critics who thought it was missing something in the way of narrative drive and emotional depth. Still, the good things it had going for it made it worth my while. - Adam

Its almost hard to break it down into these categories. WotW is popcorn but of the serious kind. Some people don't like that Speilberg lost his sense of fun and adventure with that movie. Minority Report is pretty dark as well. Lost World has a more serious atmosphere as compared to Jurassic Park. I like that he tries different styles but he seems to miss the mark slightly with his more recent films as compared to his earlier films, though most stand up well compared to 1941. - Adam

I imagined maybe there was a re-edit of the scene but I don't know. I love what JW does with The Hunt rythmically in the first minute or so. That's maybe the highlight of the soundtrack for me. With regard to the main theme, I've noticed all perfromances of it are sped up now. My totally off-the-wall-theory is that part of JW's settlement with the person who sued hm for copying his tune was that in future performances, JW would agree to speed up the tempo, so as to not sound as similar to this guy's melody. That's probably not true but I do know that JW was sued for that theme. Whatever the case, I've always preferred the slowed down version. - Adam

It depends on if the score is any good in the film, I suppose. Certainly with JW, my interest and fascination with him really took off when I started paying closer attention to his scores in their films. So I find myself enjoying his scores on a purely musical level but also on a more intellectual level of respecting his craftmanship. So relatively unimpressive "filler" music, can take on a new significance when heard in the film. Also, there can be a sense that the music is more complete when heard with the film. Dialog sequences, for example - JW has a way of incorporating the dialog as part of the score. The Anakin/Palpatine darth plagious (?) conversation in RotS is a great examle of this that I thnk of now. The music, away from the film, probably isn't going to bowl anybody over. But in the context of the film, I'm fascinated with how his music perfectly provides the underpinning to the dialog. It adds another level to my enjoyment of the music. - Adam

AI has been fighting gallantly for its life, barely surviving round after round. Truly an inspriring score! Actually, I'll quit voting strategically and put in a vote for RotS, which has a lot going for it but also has more than the other scores to complain about. - Adam

Which makes me think you didn't like "Saving Private Ryan." Well with JW's other shorter scores, I don't remember him ever having to expand so much for the purposes of the album. The albums for Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List are basically very representative of the scores in the movie. With Munich, there's a preponderance of the tense underscore. That would have been the bulk of the album as it was in the movie, had JW not expanded significantly on the album. So there's more of sense that the movie didn't really give JW space to breath and make his mark, even if it still added up to a small amount of time in the movie. With Saving Private Ryan, I didn't feel this at all. Also, there wasn't music taken out like there was in Munich. The music for Saving Private Ryan is generally a contemplative repreive from the grittiness where as Speilerg never really takes a step back in Munich, except for a little bit at the end. So for a variety of reasons, the score was less impressive to me. - Adam

Yeah the more dissonant passages represent a pretty big chunk of the total music. I hope that gets represented on the soundrack though a little bit would go a long way. I definitely want some of the music from the pilot, especially for when a few of them are scaling the mountain. Too many to mention but I think that piano tune is a highlight as well. - Adam

Munich was underwhelming in the theater, overall. There wasn't a lot of score and a fair amount seemed to be taken out. Plus, it just wasn't the type of film that leaned on music very much though none of this is really JW's fault. So Geisha ends up seeming more impressive though as a soundtrack I may actually like Munich a little more. - Adam

I've noticed that, too. That theme is used a lot, especially tbe first season. A lot of the meleodies Giacchino uses are incredibly simplistic in some respects. The piano melody he uses in season 1 several times for a couple of the finales is so simple, I'd swear somebody must have already written it. But its kind of pretty and like a lot of his material, very catchy and hard to get out of your head. He's good at finding very simple but strong, distinct musical ideas to push the drama forward. - Adam

The only thing that might be different is that JW seems to have a publicist or his agent or somebody campaigning for him. He's getting articles in the NYTimes and elsewhere. He's got the Tonight Show appearance. So maybe he's recognized the political aspect of the awards and "his people" are playing along more this year, trying to generate as much publicity as possible. Yo Yo Ma and Perlman can't hurt either. Still, I'll go with Brokeback Mountain as well. - Adam

This show is the only thing I make a point to watch on TV now. Its very cinematic and I think the score contributes to that. Sometimes it seems like there's too many characteres, too many questions, too many plot lines, sub-plot lines but the show manages to juggle it all impressively. I'm waiting for it to spin out of control but hopefully it won't. I'm looking forward to the CD - there's a lot of good stuff that will hopefully make it on to the soundtrack. - Adam

This is the kind of poll that encourages people to vote strategically. I think thats why it tends to come down to two scores getting most of the votes. Its not that there's really that much agreement, its just you tend to vote for the one that is up against the one you want to stay in. So in this case, not having a strong opinion and liking all the scores, I tend to want to vote to keep AI in, which means voting for Terminal. Does make it more interesting though it can make the results even more misleading in some ways. - Adam

I'll go with Catch me if you Can. I love AI, especially with all the unreleased stuff. But that's just me. - Adam

Well there were brave people with important stories on Sep. 11. But I think people might be referring to the way that our own sacrifices get lionized, while others in the world don't. I see what people mean however I don’t know if its particularly American. Its quite common that societies mythologize their own history. We’re better at recognizing it when its somebody else’s country and sometimes do a worse time of it when we have to look in the mirror. Of course the United States has more cultural reach and Hollywood is here, so in that sense its American. And there are of course cultural differences no doubt but I think there’s similar behavior looking at the history of England as a great power, Spain, Germany, Soviet Union, etc., etc. It may manifest itself in different ways but its a similar mystification and lionization of its own sacrifices above and beyond others. The third world has more to complain about than anybody when it comes to this kind of thing. Their sacrifices are often huge but often invisible inside the more priveleged societies (even when we bare responsibility which makes it all the worse). - Adam

Well I'll even vote with AotC this time. I normally defend it from gratituous insults but in the context of the poll, I probably listen it less than others. - Adam

I'm not surprised that this film is being made but I'm somewhat surprised Oliver Stone is doing it. With his political films, even when I disagreed with his politics, like in JFK, I could respect that he was being somewhat challenging. He was willing to take a lot of heat for films like Salvador, Born on the Fourth of July, etc. This new film sounds like a big wet kiss to the American establishment. Its almost like he's trying to grovel his way back into respectability after his recent film failures. In that sense, maybe is not so surpising. - Adam

The first time I saw it on TV, the march wasn't there. The end credits was the Men of York Town. But I saw the end of the film on TV many years later where the march replaced it. So I think maybe JW, in retrospect thought the film needed a march and he wrote the concert piece. Then some later versions of the film incorporated it, maybe because it was an often-performed orchestra piece. I'm not exactly sure about the story on that, though. I kind of like the origianl version because, like you say, it fits in more with the rest of the score. - Adam

Its been awhile since I've seen Gladiator. But my impression in retrospect, which might be unfair, is that it was used sort of pretensiously. Gave the film an auro of high minded seriousness that wasn't really deserved. Though I guess given that the awards the movie won, it could be said that it worked. But, like I said, its been awhile. - Adam

I have lots of favorites but if I break it down into smaller sections I think my absolute favorite, string or otherwise, is the culminating statement of the main theme on the End Credits of Born on the Fourth of July. About 1:50 to 2:10. That speaks to me like nothing he's ever written. It was cool to see that section was used to end a video tribute for him from awhile back. - Adam

Its hard to disagree with JW's use of the wailing woman, though at first glance, it seems like he's just participating in a fashionalbe trend. But, looking at the movies we have : Minority Report : Supports the ghostly, watery images of the woman who was killed, so the music “wafts” through the air as JW once said about it. The musical effect of a woman’s voice carrying the idea works great, whatever the inspiration for the idea. RotS : the voice is more muffled and tortured - appropriate for a scene where Anakin seems to be portrayed as wrestling with a big decision, or with his inner demon so to speak. It works fine because its relatively muted in the way its presented. Doesn’t feel particularly ethnic, especially with synth backing. And its so different from the rest of the score, the scene ends up feeling slightly eerie in a way that gives the scene more weight. Munich : as mentioned is very Arabic and its one of several versions of a major theme. So its a fully written melody unlike the way its been used in Gladiator and that kind of thing. So it may be that the trendiness of the idea, post-Gladiator, means that it has been appearing in temp tracks. If that's the case JW derserves credit for using the idea in a way that makes it ambivalent as to whether or not a temptrack was even used because the music feels like it could have been the first, logical choice for the movie. So either way, its impressive. - Adam

Well there are lot of different ways to look at the comparison so I don’t think the poll results are that outrageous. The reality is that most people here probably listen to JW much more than Mozart so by that standard, the answer is easy. There are other standards of course but nobody has any rules about which ones we have to use. I’d rather people use their own stanadard, even if its not mine, than just bow down to conventional wisdom. But my way of looking at it is to not even compare theme. And there’s a lot of reason why comparing them is misleading. Would JW have made the contribution that Mozart did, if born in that era. Its extremely doubtful. Would Mozart have been as good at scoring films, if born in this era. Probably not. Maybe Mozart would have been a great musician and a horrible film composer. Its possible. But, whatever the case, its too hard to make a comparison. Different crafts for the most part and even the serious concertos and that kind of thing are hard to compare. Orchestral music has come a long way since Mozart. - Adam

I'm pretty sure there was a fair amount of music taken out. I think that the beggining of Avner and Daphna was written for that earlier scene when they were in bed together. And the rest was written for the end credits, where it appears shortly after the piano in track 18. He added the cello version to make the album longer, probably. But track 8 and 16 are the same cue with different soloists. Some of the tense underscore must have been taken out though I can’t remember what exactly from only one viewing. However its still the majority of the actual score in the movie. Bonding was in the film but he probably wrote the concert track of Avner’s Theme to give the guitarist a little more work and to, again, fill out the album. The woman voice unfortunately plays mostly over the studio credits before the film starts. I liked it better when JW didn’t do that but now it seems to be expected of composers to start the movie while we’re watching some studio animation thingy. And then of course Remembering Munich is kind of a controversial, weird scene, as KM mentioned. I like the music a lot and it works fine but I’m still not exactly sure what Speilberg was trying to say with that scene. - Adam