Red 75 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Does anyone think del Toro was smart to distance himself from these films?I sometimes think they would have turned out better had he made them. They would have at least felt more cohesive and he would not have stretched the material too thin over three long films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Can a studio really FORCE a director to do that?If he refuses they would have a rather big problem right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 There was a time when I trusted Jacko, Boyens and Walsh's judgement when deciding to extend to a trilogy, but after seeing the movies I've realised how foolish and naive I was.They made this three movies for no other reason at all other than $$$.Fuck the artistic integrity. They had that with LotR, they're satisfied with that. At this point the three of them are sick to the teeth of living in Middle-Earth fiction and are just focusing on the massive payout at the end of the tunnel to get them through the daily slog. I read an interview with Boyens on DenofGeek and you could really tell she was tired of Tolkien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Why would he refuse, if the studio offer him fortune and glory?Maybe it was not so much the studio forcing him to do a third film, rather the studio "proposing" him to do a third film. Like: "Hey, PJ, if you wanna do a third film, we're OK with that, you know. No pressure, of course, but it'd be better if you did one more..."Thats why I dont buy this "forced by the studio" crap.PJ is a VERY well known director. His name is almost synonymous to the LOTR trilogy and it's success. If he didnt want to do a third film there would not have been a lot Warner or New Line could have done about it.Fuck the artistic integrity. They had that with LotR, they're satisfied with that. At this point the three of them are sick to the teeth of living in Middle-Earth fiction and are just focusing on the massive payout at the end of the tunnel to get them through the daily slog. I read an interview with Boyens on DenofGeek and you could really tell she was tired of Tolkien.That's possible. But you will be surprised how little it matters. WE all saw the first one. Despite a year of bitching and whining we all saw the second, and we will all be lining up to see the third...a lot of us after buying the EE of DoS.In that was these films are like the SW prequels.I know going in that ROTS was gonna be shit. But payed to see it anyway. Why? Well....i dunno. Saw the first two, might as well finish what i started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 That wasn't my point anyway. I was more talking about Jacko's real motivations now becoming glaringly clear. Which, you know, makes me lose respect for the man as an artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I wonder if it matters to them at all.Surely Spielberg knew he was gonna have to take some flack for Indy 4 even as he was making it. Not enough to damage his career or reputation in any serious way. But still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I too trusted Jackson with the trilogy decision, and was inevitably disappointed. But I seriously doubt the intentions were for money, or at least not entirely. I think he genuinely believed that he needed a trilogy to work this out. The cut he had for 2 films was probably a bit of a mess with a lot of footage being cut out (PJ fat) so he made a decision he felt was right. If you watch the AUJ appendices, you can still tell the guys kind of gives it his all, it's just the direction he ended up taking was horribly misguided. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Nothing in these 2 films have convinced me adding an extra film was justified story wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Nothing in these 2 films have convinced me adding an extra film was justified story wise.Not even a long slow BJ off Tauriel could change my mind about that. Nope. I wouldn't budge on it.I'm telling you now it wouldn't have any affect on my stance.Absolutely no affect whatsoever.I simply wouldn't be convinced.There's no two ways about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Right, but he probably didn't feel that way. Its a matter of perspective. Jackson was blind, and in his blindness, the bloat returned.What I'm trying to say here is that I hardly think money was what drove PJ to make this a trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Probably a combination of factors. Money being just one of them.Possibly security, King Kong was not as big a hit as hoped. The Lovely Bones didn't really do well. This way he gets to do great box office 3 years in a row.And surely some sort of creative or artistic drive must be there. Maybe a desire to try and outdo what he did a decade earlier. With a story that leaves the opportunity to put more of his own personal voice into, story wise.That last point already started happening with TTT and become worse when ROTK was being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Oh I'm perfectly entertained! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm still somewhat baffled at how pointless the inclusion, or rather the handling, of Legolas really is. It's a typical example of writing yourself into a corner. Once they included him, they had to do something with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Right, but he probably didn't feel that way. Its a matter of perspective. Jackson was blind, and in his blindness, the bloat returned.What I'm trying to say here is that I hardly think money was what drove PJ to make this a trilogy.Jackson has always had that issue as a director, though. King Kong showed that by being three hours long. It worked with Lord of the Rings because the material he was working with was already incredibly long, to the point that they had to cut things out of the screenplay. Jackson definitely ought to learn the value of brevity in making movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I was just trying to mimick that stupid line Gandalf had in the film But yes, a valid point indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 As of now my five main serious issues with these two movies are: the Hobbiton mini-movie, rock giants, Nazgul music, elf - dwarve attraction and Lonely Mountain action scenes, including lava sledging. Everything else is excusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 As of now my five main serious issues with these two movies are: the Hobbiton mini-movie, rock giants, Nazgul music, elf - dwarve attraction and Lonely Mountain action scenes, including lava sledging.Everything else is excusable.THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Lava sledging? That's molten gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Whatever. Sledging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ooohhh...he got you there, he did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I was falling asleep throughout that shitty part, tempted even to light up my little spot in the cinema with my mobile phone and pass the time looking on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Urgh, are you one of those people??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 That's just it, I'm not. What does that tell you about the volcano sledging scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 How is it any more silly then Gollum falling in the lava of mount doom and not noticing it?That scene is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Nah, it's climatic and cinematic. Plus it's less than 5 seconds; unlike the twenty minutes of dwarf lava skiing you get in the Hobbit movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Nonsense! SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Honestly, that was the worst and most utterly pointless action sequence in recent memory. And it very nearly undermined the reveal of Smaug and his much better scene with Bilbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 the lava surfing was for only 30 seconds or so.The rest of the action scene i dont much mind SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 When I talk about the humbrol gold paint wind surfing I'm actually referring to the entire action sequence involving the dwarves and the dragon inside the mountain. It was as useless as it was rubbish imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 How is it any more silly then Gollum falling in the lava of mount doom and not noticing it?That scene is awful.Nonsense!That scene was poetic. No one wants to see Gollum writhing in pain while sinking into the lava. That would be a bummer of an ending to such a character. This was Gollum's final moment with the ring. It didn't have to make sense, cinema doesn't always have to. It was a smart decision on Jackson and team's part to finish it off like that.The final action sequence in DoS on the other hand, THAT'S silly. Went on for far too long and was done without restraint. Pointless lava molten gold sledging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 When I talk about the humbrol gold paint wind surfing I'm actually referring to the entire action sequence involving the dwarves and the dragon inside the mountain. It was as useless as it was rubbish imo.At least it took the attention away from the useless action scene of Orcs fighting Leggy and Tauriel in LaketownGod I love this movie!Nonsense!That scene was poetic. No one wants to see Gollum writhing in pain while sinking into the lava. That would be a bummer of an ending to such a character. This was Gollum's final moment of the ring. It didn't have to make sense, cinema doesn't always have to. It was a smart decision on Jackson and team's part to finish it off like that.BULLOCKS!First of all the focus should not have been on Gollum. His purpose ended the moment he fell. It should have focused solely on the One Ring.He should have never even been in that shot. Realistically speaking he would have already been burned to ashes before even hitting the lava.It's just a very badly thought out, very badly executed and rendered scene. The depiction of Mount Doom, the heat, the lava is very realistic throughout the whole scene, but there it looks like a fucking cartoon. It lessens the impact of the finale for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 That Kili healing was hard to stomach, but it DID have an elfin sex on legs babe of groinial justice to aid my soldiering on through it. Thorin participating in extreme sports in a massive cavernous caramel factory was no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Yeah. Tauriel's presence in the film is inexcusable. But the film would be a lot worse without her. Dead sexy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's just a very badly thought out, very badly executed and rendered scene. The depiction of Mount Doom, the heat, the lava is very realistic throughout the whole scene, but there it looks like a fucking cartoon. It lessens the impact of the finale for me.I didn't know you felt so adverse to the grand finale of that most epic of films. I completely disagree with you and agree with KK 100%.I think that Jacko's Crack of Doom was even better than Tolkien's. Thanks in no small part to Howard Shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Not to the grand finale, which is epic. Just that shot.Not quite sure we need the steal from the Last Crusade ending there either, but Sean Astin nails it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Aww how could you not like that last pathetic shot of Gollum during his demise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 He should have screamed in agony while his body burned to a cinder while he fell!It's lava dude! The hottest lava in Middle Earth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 First of all the focus should not have been on Gollum. His purpose ended the moment he fell. It should have focused solely on the One Ring.He should have never even been in that shot. Realistically speaking he would have already been burned to ashes before even hitting the lava.Again, realism should hardly matter at this point. Realistically, the ring would have vanished in seconds, but it didn't (thank God). Sometimes, you're supposed to throw realism out the window for the sake of cinema (movies do it all the time). This was such an instance. Since when was LotR ever a great example of "realism" in film anyway? Even if that wasn't the best looking shot of Gollum, the purpose of the scene adds so much more than Gollum just disappearing suddenly.Yes, the main point of the film is the ring, but you still need to end character arcs, and that's what Jackson successfully did with Gollum while continuing to address the ring.The shot of Gollum falling from the cliff with that beautifully melancholic boy soprano line is arguably one of the most artistic scenes in the trilogy. Or at least that's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The Ring is a magical object. Not a simple gold ring. It was established in the films before that is can withstand ordinary fire and an Dwarvish axe. That it's strong enough to, for a time withstand the fires of Mount Doom is made believable in the film.Gollum landing in a pool of lava....not noticing he did so...not even reacting to it in any way share of form is a cop out. They either should not have shown Gollum landing at all, or do a more realistic version.It's a bit sad that one is no longer permitted to say that the LOTR trilogy had plenty of flaws and bogus moments too. Especially ROTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Lol there's loads of flaws and problems with that trilogy. Gollum going out like an icon isn't one of them.You're letting your geekish Tolkien purity side get the better of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 My complaint has nothing to do with faithfulness to Tolkien. Fuck that lark.It's a moment that does fit with the resat of the trilogy.Verisimilitude, my dear Lee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Well, I buy it. It's an important shot imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Well, you are obviously wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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