Faleel's Maniacal Treasure Hunt for Unreleased LOTR Music

[Faleel 5,349]

What?

Did I stutter?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That cant be right!

[Faleel 5,349]

Waveforms do not lie!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This can't be real!

Is this on the CR?

[Faleel 5,349]

The CR's do include some tracked music.

The Nazgul also has some tracked music, the Rarities features the full first section of the cue without tracked music (from A Shortcut to Mushrooms and Saruman the White), plus the theatrical cue, and the original version with the Isengard theme instead of Evil Times.

But that is another story for another thread, at another time.

[Jay 37,364]

Faleel is 100% correct.

 

FOTR: CR D1T7 "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" from 4:00-5:19 is actually music tracked in from the first cue in D3T5 "Parth Galen" (0:00-1:19), replacing Shore's original composition (which is on the OST CD in track 3 "The Shadow Of The Past" from 0:00-0:59, albeit with microedits)

 

FOTR: CR D1T8 "A Conspiracy Unmasked" from 1:57-3:09 is once again that same bit of "Parth Galen" music, replacing Shore's original composition (which to this day remains unreleased)

 

The History Of The Ring theme was actually added into the mix of things pretty late.... it is only so prominent in the first film due to tracking (the above two cues mentioned) and re-writes (Prologue and The Argonath)

[KK 3,307]

Hmm, you're right Faleel. That's interesting...

At the very least, those statements work in context, and are minimal in length. Also, the statements are pieces of original material composed for FotR. The Hobbit happens to be reusing all sorts of cues from scores that were composed 10 years in the past!

[Jay 37,364]

Of course, there's always the alternative theory that the cue in "Parth Galen" is actually the tracked one, and that setting of THOTR was written for one of the first two scenes.... there's no way to really be sure! (I mean, we know what Shore ORIGINALLY wrote for the KIS,KIS cue, but he always could have re-written it first, before it was later tracked into "ACU" and "PG". Honestly, using the HOTR theme for Frodo entering Bag End as Gandalf ponder the ring makes more sense than when he is wondering around alone in the woods when Boromir finds him (though, it's certainly suitable in both scenes)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Faleel is 100% correct.

FOTR: CR D1T7 "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" from 4:00-5:19 is actually music tracked in from the first cue in D3T5 "Parth Galen" (0:00-1:19), replacing Shore's original composition (which is on the OST CD in track 3 "The Shadow Of The Past" from 0:00-0:59, albeit with microedits)

FOTR: CR D1T8 "A Conspiracy Unmasked" from 1:57-3:09 is once again that same bit of "Parth Galen" music, replacing Shore's original composition (which to this day remains unreleased)

The History Of The Ring theme was actually added into the mix of things pretty late.... it is only so prominent in the first film due to tracking (the above two cues mentioned) and re-writes (Prologue and The Argonath)

I actually just decided it doesn't really matter.

[KK 3,307]

Faleel is 100% correct.

FOTR: CR D1T7 "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" from 4:00-5:19 is actually music tracked in from the first cue in D3T5 "Parth Galen" (0:00-1:19), replacing Shore's original composition (which is on the OST CD in track 3 "The Shadow Of The Past" from 0:00-0:59, albeit with microedits)

FOTR: CR D1T8 "A Conspiracy Unmasked" from 1:57-3:09 is once again that same bit of "Parth Galen" music, replacing Shore's original composition (which to this day remains unreleased)

The History Of The Ring theme was actually added into the mix of things pretty late.... it is only so prominent in the first film due to tracking (the above two cues mentioned) and re-writes (Prologue and The Argonath)

I actually just decided it doesn't really matter.

I've come to the same conclusion myself. All those appearances make sense thematically in context and work well with the picture. On top of that, their appearances are subtle enough to not attract attention to itself in the bigger picture.

[Jay 37,364]

Really in the end, it's just odd that Doug's book discusses them as unique versions that were intended, when it's just tracked music.

[Faleel 5,349]

Apologist! (ugh Ninja'd)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Doug is a very well informed but not very objective source.

Remember Nature's Reclamation?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Of course, there's always the alternative theory that the cue in "Parth Galen" is actually the tracked one, and that setting of THOTR was written for one of the first two scenes.... there's no way to really be sure! (I mean, we know what Shore ORIGINALLY wrote for the KIS,KIS cue, but he always could have re-written it first, before it was later tracked into "ACU" and "PG".

OK, you've got to stop doing that, it's annoying!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed

[Jay 37,364]

My fingers got tired

[Faleel 5,349]

Just say:

History/Ring....

Keep it Secret...

Conspiracy/Unmasked....

Galen/Parth....

[Faleel 5,349]

I have a theory:

What if, the original Conspiracy Unmasked scene, was re-edited, and that was why it was replaced with the Ring theme.

And further, what if that original scene, would have had a flashback to Bilbo finding the ring? ("Bilbo found it, in Gollum's Cave...")

and even further, what if that music, is the unknown music in the DVD credits (see video below) on the first disc of the FOTR Theatrical disc...?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxQSwI5aPja9Q0FqTXp1bGYtUEU

[Jay 37,364]

Woops I COMPLETELY forgot that we KNOW that the first cue in "Parth Galen" is the original use of that setting of the History of the Ring theme (and that it was tracked from there into the "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" cue and the "Conspiracy Unmasked" cue) because 10 seconds of the cue are actually on the OST, at the very end of "The Great River". I knew I was forgetting something!

[Faleel 5,349]

Incidentally, The Great River is either microedited on all presentations, or the LOTR symphony has extra music written for it, because the last seconds of the great river are extended.

So how about my theory?


BTW there seems to be 3 differences between CR/OST versions and the LOTR symphony.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Shore kept making little changes in the symphony as it went on in the years, I don't think that speaks for micro-edits. Especially since I heard the symphony live when it was just starting to tour, and noticed how little things changed over time.

There is also pounding timpani over the last History of the Ring statement in Mount Doom, which isn't in the film or on the CR.

[Faleel 5,349]

BTW i think I may have found the music that was replaced by History of the ring in A Conspiracy Unmasked... it sounds like Siege of Gondor!

 

 

I think this might be it:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dUZMYm9IYkdsTjA/edit?usp=sharing

 

Its interesting how fully formed Shore's thematic material etc. was at the time of the composition of FOTR.

 

 

[Jay 37,364]

OOooooh!

[Faleel 5,349]

(BTW I am only concluding its the music in Conspiracy.... because that cue is the only cue that has unreleased music that we know of, and because the part when Frodo gets up ("We keep it hidden, we never speak of it again!") comes right after it, in the EE costumes documentary that I ripped it from)

[Jay 37,364]

Seems likely that's what it is then! As soon as I can give it a listen, I will let you know.

[Faleel 5,349]

On 8/29/2013 at 11:35 AM, Jay said:

Seems likely that's what it is then! As soon as I can give it a listen, I will let you know.

 

So.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Is it supposed to be that I just get silence when playing the vid?

[Faleel 5,349]

It works for me....

try it again?

 

 

[gkgyver 1,645]

Nope. What is it supposed to sound like? I doubt it's so low I can't hear it when you say sounds like Siege of Gondor

[KK 3,307]

I don't think it sounds like Siege of Gondor.

[Faleel 5,349]

I don't think it sounds like Siege of Gondor.

Uh... 1:19 of siege of Gondor (Rarities version)

I am talking about the end portion, not the earlier "FOOTSTEPS OF DOOM" part

Perhaps this Link works?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaVOJN-pT_k

[KK 3,307]

Oooh, I see what you mean. I think it's a coincidence though.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't hear a single note. Odd.

[Jay 37,364]

BTW i think I may have found the music that was replaced by History of the ring in A Conspiracy Unmasked... it sounds like Siege of Gondor!

I think this might be it:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dUZMYm9IYkdsTjA/edit?usp=sharing

Hmmm.... you may be right. The next task is to syn this music to the final film footage (including the rest of the cue playing out right after it over the rest of the scene)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Is it supposed to be that I just get silence when playing the vid?

Yes. Shore started the trend of scoring movies with silence.

[Faleel 5,349]

 

BTW i think I may have found the music that was replaced by History of the ring in A Conspiracy Unmasked... it sounds like Siege of Gondor!

I think this might be it:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dUZMYm9IYkdsTjA/edit?usp=sharing

 

Hmmm.... you may be right.  The next task is to syn this music to the final film footage (including the rest of the cue playing out right after it over the rest of the scene)

 

Your Wish = My Command!

[Jay 37,364]

Oh yea, that's good!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Is it supposed to be that I just get silence when playing the vid?

Yes. Shore started the trend of scoring movies with silence.

No wonder Jackson was forced to track so much stuff.

[Faleel 5,349]

I think I may have uncovered 2 TTT alternates. not sure yet.

[Faleel 5,349]

Found another unreleased bit from FOTR...

Unreleased section of A Conspiracy Unmasked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWQQThAP0ec&feature=youtu.be

Alternate opening of Flaming Red Hair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Ff8gBPpSg

[Jay 37,364]

Sounds like it's just a different mix of Flaming Red Hair

[Faleel 5,349]

No, the "whistle" melody in the opening seconds are different (though it could be section from the middle...)

BTW, am I going mad, or is their low male choir in this snippet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ijKgWHPHE

[chuck 154]

No, the "whistle" melody in the opening seconds are different (though it could be section from the middle...)

BTW, am I going mad, or is their low male choir in this snippet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ijKgWHPHE

LOL, I read that title as Saruman: The White Male Choir???

[gkgyver 1,645]

No, the "whistle" melody in the opening seconds are different (though it could be section from the middle...)

BTW, am I going mad, or is their low male choir in this snippet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ijKgWHPHE

No, you're not mad, I hear it as well. Very piano, but very moody.

Jesus, with all the edits discovered in FotR, it makes me realise how brilliant that score actually is.

[Jay 37,364]

It's the best of the three!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Take the film edits away and put in Shore's originally intended versions, and you have literally the perfect film score.

[chuck 154]

That's figuratively awesome.

[Faleel 5,349]

Am I the only one that thinks "The Mirror of Galadriel"'s opening was shortened in the film, and the edit was carried over to the CR?

[Jay 37,364]

Find the video game file that proves you're right!

[Faleel 5,349]

BTW I was watching the film, and there is music (a statement of THE THREAT OF MORDOR) right after the PITY OF GOLLUM statement in A Conspiracy Unmasked, that is not on the CR ("The Ring has awoken, its heard its master's call...").

it is either tracked (but not presented on the CR "for listening purposes") or the first part of the music that I discovered in the costumes doc.