Pelzter 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 It's odd how three fast, succesive notes can have such an impact... I mean, when used proberly, a set of triplets or two can really make a theme sweeping and/or emotional... Obvious examples: Ep II love theme, Horner's excellent Mask of Zorro and Goldsmith's Legend (My True Love's Eyes)... Thoughts on this?--Pelzter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 They are especially fantastic when put against duplets as in the piano bit in ET. What's that piece called again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelzter 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Author Share Posted May 27, 2003 ... and it's amazing how often they are actually used, when you think about it. I mean, by far the most of Williams' themes uses them in one form or another, which may be the reason why a lot of his stuff sound alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 That's why I like Williams so much: he creates some of the best triplets in music. My favorite is the Imperial March -- the suite is chock full of triplets!Jeff -- who just recently suggested the "Minority Report" CD to a co-worker Kundun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I'm not sure what triplets are,but I'm sure it's part of the reason I like Williams music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Triplets are a form of rhythmic alteration. Let me try to explain.There are two basic types of meters in Western music: duple and triple.In duple meters, a beat is normally divided into 2 equal parts. For example, in 4/4, the beat is a quarter note and its subdivision is 2 eighth notes.Likewise, in triple meters, a beat is normally divided into 3 equal parts.A triplet is a temporary division of a duple meter beat into 3 equal parts instead of two. Therefore, an eighth note triplet in 4/4 (or 2/4 or 3/4 for that matter) consists of 3 subdivisions of a beat, instead of two. Similarly, the reverse can happen as well. One can put 2 subdivisions in a triple meter instead, in what is called a duplet.There can be other divisions as well, the most common being the 5-, 7-, and 9-tets (although I know JW has used 10- and 12-tets even!).Hope this clears things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardtolee420 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Wow, I have seen 5-tets before, and maybe 9- or 10-, but never all of the others. They must be difficult to count out and play. What are some examples of William's works that use those other divisions?also,jsawruk, do you happen to be a music teacher? Because the only time I've heard meter divisions explained so thuroughly were in the beginning of my AP Music Theory class this year.-Peter who is obsessed with music theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 I know I just saw a lot of 10-tets in the Tuba Concerto, which I'm putting on the site very soon. There are a lot of 5-tets in the Trumpet Concerto, and I am sure that 7-tets are very common because its a great way to write out a scale-run in one beat. If I find more examples, I will let you know, but I know they are not limited to concert works, even though he uses irregular subdivisions in his concert works more often.No, I'm not a music teacher yet (not yet anyway). I just got my BM in Composition, and am going on for my MM in Film Music Composition. An intimate knowledge of music theory is necessary if you wish to be a good composer, because it allows you to understand what options are available to you. I hope either to become a film composer or a music composition/theory professor with a specialization in 20th century, electronic, and film musics. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 12-tets can't be that hard to play :-/ It's basically 4 very fast triplets. Could be used to do a really fast chromatic scale from example C and land on the C in a higher octave the next beat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Well, that's exactly how all n-tets above 3 are played, by breaking them down into groups of 2s and 3s to make them easier to count. Unless of course, the tempo is fast enough and the tuplet is played as a glissando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Well, Peter, in Summon the Heroes, during the calm trumpet solo, a 7-tet is used, as well as being used in Land of the Giants, The Mission Theme (From NBC) along with 6-tets to get from C-sharp in the staff to A twice above that in about two beats. This theme also has double 6-tets. Hymn to New England makes extensive use of 5-tets. I hope that helps (Ask me to point them out later, Peter, if it doesn't;)).~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 They are especially fantastic when put against duplets as in the piano bit in ET. What's that piece called again?Over the Moon? Williams "Over the Moon" from E.T.The Boston Pops OrchestraJohn Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty 0 Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Have a look at the Rite of Spring.Every tuplet imaginable. Or look at some serialist music where the whole point is to make the pulse dissapear or change. Tuplets galore!!!Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Hope this clears things up.thanks for taking the time to explain I understand 90% of what you say...I read all the music theory archives at Teoria.com so I can keep up with more discussions of this kind.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Horner's Mask of Zorro was a poor example of this IMO.That score was very lackluster IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 It's odd how three fast, succesive notes can have such an impact... I mean, when used proberly, a set of triplets or two can really make a theme sweeping and/or emotional... Obvious examples: Ep II love theme, Horner's excellent Mask of Zorro and Goldsmith's Legend (My True Love's Eyes)... Thoughts on this?--Pelzter.I think the most famous example of triplets in Williams' music are those in the Star Wars main theme. But almost every Williams score has triplets. In fact, all his themes in 6/8 or 9/8 meter are triplets (Opening theme from Hook, themes from Harry Potter, Superman etc.).MSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Technically, when music is in 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc, those are not triplets but are actually eighth notes grouped in three (very slight but important difference).It comes as no surprise that his music should contain triplets though, because triplets can be found in almost every single piece of music (some more than others, and sometimes diguised as a hemiola that is too large to fit inside a single measure). I really don't see what the big deal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Wow, I have seen 5-tets before, and maybe 9- or 10-, but never all of the others. They must be difficult to count out and play. What are some examples of William's works that use those other divisions?-Peter who is obsessed with music theoryDuplets are seen for example in Theme from Sabrina (which is in 6/8 meter). Those triplets against eights are seen in the piano theme from E.T., Over the Moon.7-tets and 12-tets are for example in the violin themes from Schindler's List, and in fact 15-tets or so are used a lot in glissandi in Williams' parts for orchestral harp, but are usually not named as such.A famous 7-tet is in the Star Wars Main Theme, after the statement of Luke's theme, when the music silences and only a celeste and harp are heard above which a piccolo plays the famous motiv.I think there are a lot more examples but can't think of more at the moment,MSM - who thinks the Sabrina score is one of Williams' best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted June 3, 2003 Share Posted June 3, 2003 Some use of tuplets in JW music that I came across, all found on my website:Duplets or 2:3 Hemiola:- Catch Me If You Can's Main Title has a couple of 2:3 Hemiolas giving it a "dragging" effect- Tuba Concerto Movement 1 has a 2:3 hemiola in the middle of its primary themeTriplets or 3:2 Hemiola:- Summon the Heroes uses a triplet ostinato immediately after the fanfare- Call of the Champions begins its tertiary theme with a triplet- Catch Me If You Can's Main Title is full of triplets- Essay for Strings has a lot of triplets in its last section- The Mission Theme has triplets in its secondary theme- Star Wars ANH has triplets everywhere: - Towards the end of the Jawas Theme - Main Title, both in melody and ostinato - The Force Theme towards the end - Cantina Band #2- Star Wars AOTC has the following triplets: - Across the Stars - Anakin and Padme- Empire Strikes Back uses triplets in the Imperial March Ostinato- Star Wars Phantom Menace has: - Anakin's Theme - Duel of the Fates ("Rahtamah") - Trade Federation Theme - Flag Parade- The Five Sacred Trees movements 1, 2, and 4- Trumpet Concerto movements 1 and 2- Return of the Jedi in Jabba's Theme- Seven Years in Tibet Theme- Superman Theme- Winter Games Fanfare- Sinfonietta Movement 1Quintuples (5-tets):- Trumpet Concerto movements 1 and 2- A Hymn to New England- Sinfonietta Movement 110-tets:- Tuba Concerto Movement 2 in the secondary theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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