Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 There are a number of themes or motifs that Williams has used in a StarWars movie, but then he doesn't use it anymore, and I don't mean because certain characters or situation don't present themselves in other movies, on the contrary... Star Wars-The Imperial ThemeThe Empire Strikes Back-The Droid Motif(one of my favorites, I was expecting to hear it in TPM, but never showed up, also missing in ROTJ and AOTC)-Boba Fett's motif (I don't think it was used in ROTJ)Return of the Jedi-New Droids motif(?)(I think he used a new theme for the droids at the beginning of this movie)And now with all the mess Lucas has created, motifs that are being done now will be missing in the original trilogy...Star Wars: The Phantom Menace-The Droid March (which in AOTC turns into the Clones March, and I guess it should be the "StormTroopers March", which in turn is missing in the whole original trilogy)And now the most famous of all, "The Imperial March" abscent in Episode IV. Now, I don't have any problem if this is corrected like Lucas and Williams had hinted lately with all this special edition for DVD release after Episode III, but where to put it? Like the knight from The Last Crusade said, they have to "choose wisely". Not to disrupt one of the most perfect scores written for the cinema. I was just watching the movie two days ago trying to hear where it could fit in the best and not take away from what was originally done. I have a couple of suggestions for this, and I don't think it should appear as much as in ESB. There are about three or four key scenes where the "Imperial March" should appear, but that is subject for another post Hector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Not to disrupt one of the most perfect scores written for the cinema.Then don't.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Which brings me to my point..... why not track in the droid theme in the conveyer belt cue, why Yoda? hhhhmmmm? hhhmmmmm? I'm going to go ask Jedi Master Rosiedious about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director 1 Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Yes, ocelot!! I totally agree!by the way -- is that Rosie in your avatar?Dan - who met Rosie and is celebrating 600 posts alongside his good friend, Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Yes, that is Rosie. Sad to see her show go off many are.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director 1 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 I tried to record it, but my tape ended. I did, however, get to see the cute opening act and Nathan Lane's hilarious (and sometimes, over-the-top) rant.Rosie's actually lives nearby, now that I think of it. At least, she's going to.Dan - waiting for a friend to send him a tape so he can watch the rest of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 You're a very mysterious person. Does anyone here now anything about you?~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director 1 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Just my master:The Mysterious Count DookuDan - LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Hmmm, so somehow you are connected to Christopher Lee?~Harry, who will find out the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 The Empire Strikes Back-The Droid Motif(one of my favorites, I was expecting to hear it in TPM, -Boba Fett's motif (I don't think it was used in ROTJ)Boba didn't have a lot to do in ROTJ. But it seems to me that the beginning of Jango's Escape is rather similar to the first half of the (Boba) Fett theme. Of course, it's not much more than an ostinato, so it may just be a lucky coincidence.Marian - who didn't even notice Boba Fett when he watched ESB for the first time... :roll: Attack of the Clones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted May 25, 2002 Author Share Posted May 25, 2002 Yes Marian! I also noted a Boba Fett-like motif in AOTC, it's a little longer than the one Williams used in ESB that why I tought it might be for Jengo Fett, but I've only seen the movie once so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Are you talking about the evil theme that appears a few times on the cd?~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickenstein 0 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 I believe Marian is talking about the very openning of Jango's Escape, not the 7-note bad guy theme. It's easy to miss at first, but if you listen closely you can hear the similarities between it and Boba's motif.Back to missing themes, How about Jar Jar's Theme? It seems to have gone the say of the dodo. I thought Williams would have snuck it in there when we first see Jar Jar on his way to greet Obi Wan and Anakin. Maybe George wasn't fond of it in TPM.NP: Die Walkure: Act II (Richard Wagner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director 1 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Well, he didn't use the theme, but he did use playful music, à la "Jar Jar's Theme".Dan - who noticed this today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 My turn to get in.Star Wars -The Imperial Theme I doubt this will be used again, as the Imperial March will take over. Lost it may become.Return of the Jedi -New Droids motif(?)(I think he used a new theme for the droids at the beginning of this movie)I didn't and still don't understand the point of making another droid motif. Does anyone?Star Wars: The Phantom Menace -The Droid March (which in AOTC turns into the Clones March, and I guess it should be the "StormTroopers March", which in turn is missing in the whole original trilogy)Perhaps it will in time be added as well?I don't think it should appear as much as in ESB. I think the Imperial March is essential to the Empire score. Most of the score revolves around Darth Vader's theme. Without it in key places, the scene wouldn't have as much evil impact. Where did you want to remove it?And, as we have stated in the past, we need the Emperor's Theme in TESB.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 I believe Marian is talking about the very openning of Jango's Escape, not the 7-note bad guy theme. It's easy to miss at first, but if you listen closely you can hear the similarities between it and Boba's motif.Yep, I missed it. For when I'm listening later, what time does it appear in the cue?~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 Right at the beginning, and it's repeated shortly afterwards.It's the: daa-daa-daa-DA-daMarian - who wonders if anyone understands that. Yo-Yo Ma Plays the Music of John Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Ahhh, ok. Now that you spelled it out for me, I can sing it in my head. Thanks!~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectorthom 0 Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 I'd love it, if and when we see a shot of the baby twins in Ep. III, that the Luke and Leia theme is used. I hope Williams doesn't forget!vectorthom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 I don't think it's a matter of if he forgets. I think it's a matter if Lucas wants it there.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Muirheid 0 Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 And now the most famous of all, "The Imperial March" ...I have a couple of suggestions for this, and I don't think it should appear as much as in ESB. There are about three or four key scenes where the "Imperial March" should appear, but that is subject for another post HectorWell - two things to keep in mind:1. In at least one ESB scene Lucas tracked in the the Concert Arrangement of Imperial March over more subtle Williams score. Sort of a prelude to what he would do in TPM with 'Duel of the Fates'. When Darth Flannel finds a piece of music he likes he usually whips it to (near) death!2. When is a theme actually two themes? It's important to realize that in ESB Lucas/Williams establish the Imperial March as both Vader's personal theme as well as the overall theme for the Empire (when typically played in a more martial, controlled style). When the theme swaggers, solos or tempo lags it usually means Vader is onscreen doing evil. When played with unified orchestral bombast, or a quick loud snippet of the theme, its usually means a fleet of Star Destroyers or a squad of troopers just came on/off screen. There are occasional exceptions but this is how I keep the two separate in my mind. Since these two variations can be totally independet of each other depending on scipt it means more score time allocated to essentially the same notes.TIM (who still wishes Williams could have found a way to salvage the original Imperial motif in the original) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 In at least one ESB scene Lucas tracked in the the Concert Arrangement of Imperial March over more subtle Williams score.The cue in question is Aboard the Executor, and it isn't subtle at all. In fact, the concert arrangement is probably more controlled and certainly less brutal. Aboard the Executor is my favourite rendition of the theme though, so I'm still mad he replaced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Muirheid 0 Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 The cue in question is Aboard the Executor, and it isn't subtle at all. In fact, the concert arrangement is probably more controlled and certainly less brutal. Aboard the Executor is my favourite rendition of the theme though, so I'm still mad he replaced it.Ok - upon another listen I agree subtle was probably the wrong word. I'm not much for that 'atonal' probe droid sequence but I really like the cue from 2:45 where you get the brass overload IM statement. 'Full bodied', Michael Mattesino called it in the SE liner notes.Still, my point was the precedent was set for Lucas to grab the concert arrangement and call it score during editing.TIM (whose 5 year old daughter can't watch TPM without asking "Is that the Queen or her decoy"?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 :?: Probe droid is pretty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 but I really like the cue from 2:45 where you get the brass overload IM statement.I think that's the only part of the track that's cut from the film, as far as I recall, the probe droid music is still there. And the last bit of the "full bodied" IM too, I think, but most of it was replaced by the concert version.Marian - who also dislikes how the hyperspace music is tracked in when Wedge finds Luke and Han on Hoth. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 TIM (whose 5 year old daughter can't watch TPM without asking "Is that the Queen or her decoy"?)D'OH!!!....i'm 20 years older then her, and i don't have a clue about that one.Stefancos- who finds the whole decoy stuff utterly confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I think that's the only part of the track that's cut from the film, as far as I recall, the probe droid music is still there. And the last bit of the "full bodied" IM too, I think, but most of it was replaced by the concert version.Actually, Marian, the probe droid music is NOT in the film. The film is unscored from the point Luke gets out of the thawing chamber until the Imperial March concert arrangement.Jeff -- who's glad the probe droid music is on CD, but not in the film...too comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Isn't some of it in the main titles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now