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Posts posted by Mattris
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6 minutes ago, Brónach said:
Mattris, i can't find the mute button in your profile fr, do you happen to know where it is?
Are my pointed follow-up question to your claims too much for you?
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29 minutes ago, Brónach said:
We know there were meetings about "what Star Wars is" with detailed answers and that the answers were... quite narrow, in a detrimental way, which i think is a likely factor in the Star Wars fatigue (but most of the Star Wars fatigue has of course to do with people obsessing over it all the time instead of watching something else).
Yes, one of those Lucasfilm meetings from around 2010 - headed by George Lucas - was recorded and released.
How could Lucas' "detailed" and "quite narrow" answers be "detrimental"?
How would these answers be "a likely factor in the Star Wars fatigue"?
Could it be that the reason so many people are 'fatigued' with Star Wars is they don't understand it? Most of the audience doesn't consider the story to be an allegory, but it is. The work contains a mysterious lore of which the audience is clueless. Yet so many of the audience proclaim in their echo chambers that 'The Star Wars writers don't understand Star Wars! Things have taken a disastrous turn for the worse!' No wonder so many people are disenchanted. They're shockingly ignorant!
On 26/04/2023 at 1:31 AM, Sweeping Strings said:The makers of Solo might disagree with it not being about 'making the most money possible'.
Perhaps they tried to make the most money possible, at least considering the project they were tasked with. The film had many things going against it, not least of which the fact that it came out just 6 months after TLJ... and didn't feature Harrison Ford or his likeness.
Oh, well. I'm sure makers of Solo were paid well for their work.
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34 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:
?? Like what?
Are you not aware of their controversial positions/projects?
5 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:You tell me, you're the one saying they threw IX on purpose as a distraction for .... something:
I'm not saying that I think Episode IX is evidence that Disney/Lucasfilm are incompetent. I'm saying that the film was specifically made to make it seem - to the ignorant audience for which it was made - that Disney/Lucasfilm were even more incompetent than they already seemed to be. It turned out to be just further distraction from the reality of it all... because the fans got it wrong again. The film was carefully crafted to throw off the audience, yet provide clues to the reality of it all. But Lucasfilm are aware of their audience's point of view... and many steps ahead of them. Miles ahead, actually.
On 24/04/2023 at 1:53 PM, Gabriel Bezerra said:Terminator, Back to the Future, Rambo, Rocky and countless others that weren't planned.
Mattris, you sound like someone who was traumatized by the lack of consistency within the canon and now is in constant denial, thinking there were no mistakes, errors and accidents, the good the bad and the ugly were designed as such, it's all part of the plan!
But that's just not possible, whenever there are humans involved and monetary interest things will go south somewhere. Even if there was a plan, it would not go exactly the way it was supposed to go. The original trilogy is the prime example of making it up as it goes even with a plan.
The Terminator films were not conceived as a trilogy... or as a single, grander story that required being told across multiple/many films. The same goes for Back to the Future, Rambo, and Rocky.
What "lack of consistency within the canon"?
'Things going south somewhere' is not assured. Star Wars could be 'going exactly the way it was supposed to go.' Lucas was smart enough to control his company and the Star Wars IP all the way until he handed it off to a trusted associate of many decades. For every reason in the world, if there was a plan, then Kathleen Kennedy would make sure it was seen through to the end. That's probably why she's still president of Lucasfilm after over a decade in charge. "It's not over yet."
26 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:Your argumentation reminds me increasingly of Marvin, the robot from the hitchhikers's Guide to the Galaxy, where he proves to another robot his superior intelligence by asking the robot: "Chose a number between zero and ten". The other robot says "Seven" and Marvin says "Wrong!".
Your assumptions about what drives Lucasfilm and what the know and think makes absolutely no sense.
In my response to you, I made points, presented logical explanations, and asked you a question. Why don't respond to what I said?
I'm not 'assuming' anything. My conclusions about what drives Lucasfilm make perfect sense... because my Star Wars assessment and theories are based on its literal canon in totality - not opinions based on a child-like (escapism!) interpretation of the story... but only the films and some of the shows, like most fans. As I said, the Star Wars audience doesn't know what they don't know.
I'm betting you don't either. But you can prove me wrong. Do you know what isn't known about Star Wars? I challenge you to list some of those things.
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34 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:
It's cute you don't believe Disney's top priority is making money.
If that were the case, then every single thing Disney did would be based on the intent to achieve maximum profit. But that's not how Disney operates. You know this, right? A company this large has agendas to pursue and messaging to push... controversial positions/projects that are not desired or approved by the majority of (potential) customers. These kinds of things do not boost their bottom line.
This would explain Disney's massive lay-offs numbers just reported.
Or do you think they're trying to make the most money - but after a century into their business - don't know how to do it?
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It seems I'm not allowed to talk about Star Wars anywhere else on these Forums. So here I am.
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Why bother? Even if they don't care about Star Wars, why would I risk this person sharing the theory and taking the credit?
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On 25/04/2023 at 7:53 PM, Demodex said:
You didn't seem to have this attitude when TLJ came out. And I find it hard to believe that Disney doesn't care what the audience thinks since movies people like make more money.
But then again they did release TROS so who knows.
Until a little over 4 years ago, I was shortsighted and ignorant. I have since learned a great many things.
On the contrary, Disney/Lucasfilm do care what the audience thinks. However, making the most money in the short term - by giving the audience what they want/expect is not their primary objective... telling the story is.
4 hours ago, Demodex said:High expectations? After TROS I'm not sure anyone has high expectations anymore except for the Disney + shows.
Generally speaking, Star Wars fans are passionate, opinionated, and have high expectations for the expansive work that is Star Wars. But so many fans have turned away from the franchise, whether it be because they didn't get what they wanted/expected from the prequels, sequels, or the shows.
4 hours ago, Demodex said:Mattris, did you think TROS was a good movie? Tell me the truth.
Yes, because TROS served its purpose in a variety of ways. How about you? What do you think happened in it?
4 hours ago, Demodex said:If Star Wars always had a plan, would the sequel trilogy have ever happened if Lucas didn't sell it to Disney?
Probably. In a 1999 interview, George Lucas said they he didn't want to be making Star Wars films and shows for the rest of his life. He wanted to focus on things that were more important to him, like his family. So with Kathleen Kennedy put in charge first, he sold Lucasfilm to Disney so the Saga could be completed in his lifetime.
I don't discount the fact that Lucas repeatedly stated that he was stabbed in the back, with Bob Iger saying as much. Everybody here knows I don't think any such thing happened... for so many reasons. For instance, George Lucas was photographed visiting at least one set of a Star Wars show, laughing alongside Kathleen Kennedy. This footage made it to a Disney+ behind-the-scenes program. No way in the world the man would have gone back to the very people who betrayed him - the ones who had apparently thrown his sequel treatments in the garbage - with him having left the company under bad terms. No f---ing way.
4 hours ago, Demodex said:What about all the EU stories that are no longer canon? Were they part of this master plan?
The EU volumes gave Lucasfilm an opportunity to brainstorm and ultimately, distract... for the real continuation of the story was yet to come.
4 hours ago, Demodex said:I seriously doubt that there is ever going to be this big reveal that will shock everyone but you. You've built it up so much now that I'm likely to think "That's it?" if it finally happens.
Yes, I have built this up, haven't I? But I never said it was just one "big reveal" coming. I'll tell you now, there will be many shocking twists strewn throughout the Final Trilogy. In Episode X alone, I expect there will be many.
4 hours ago, Demodex said:No she didn't. We know very little about it actually.
Apart from the supporting cast/characters, what wasn't revealed? More info has come out since SWC. ('Rey isn't the lead') And if you believe reliable reports, the writer/producer of this film was changed shortly before its official announcement. All things considered, what's happening here is crazy. THERE IS ALREADY WAY TOO MUCH CONTROVERSY. Of course there is... because it's all a distraction.
4 hours ago, Demodex said:They probably did know the state of the galaxy but did a piss poor job showing it. We learned a lot more about the New Republic from a TV show.
What didn't the sequels show/tell about the state of the galaxy?
One scene that would have helped to explain matters was a deleted scene in TFA in which Leia sent her liaison to Hosnian Prime as another warning and appeal to the New Republic government about the seriousness of the threat that was First Order. IMO, this scene should have been included. In the finished film, we only see the liaison on a balcony seconds before the destruction of the entire system of planets.
The reality is, the grander story of Star Wars is more complex and expansive than can be included in the films alone. Want more information and context? Checking out the other volumes of canon is required. If nothing else, all fans should read the film novelizations, which contain extra scenes, expanded dialog, character thoughts, exposition, etc.
Lucasfilm can't help the fans (fanatics?) who are too prideful or lazy to stop being willfully ignorant. (Seems they prefer to complain instead.)
4 hours ago, Demodex said:They dumped Trevorrow too far into the process and gave Abrams little time to write something good.
You have no idea what was happening behind the scenes... what's still happening. The written canon (released before TLJ) proves that Palpatine's return was imminent. You only heard that Abrams was returning when they told the world. In any case... From the time he was publicly announced as coming back, JJ had over a year to write and over a year to make
the filmtwo films.4 hours ago, Demodex said:Am I the only one here that feels like they're posting the same damn thing all the time?
The ST had no plan.
Trevorrow's script wasn't fake.
Episode X is not filmed yet.
You're free to stop posting claims of which you have no supporting evidence. Unless you have done your research, the things you say are mere contradiction to my informed conclusions.
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On 23/04/2023 at 8:54 AM, Brónach said:
the combined conspiracy theory that Disney & Lucasfilm paid for an script and preproduction that wasn't meant to be used, that they paid for the entire production of a movie that already exists, and that they paid for the real episode IX in its entirety simultaneously, and that they planned doing so from the beginning, all of which are things that can be asked about to the people involved, is really funny
What I concluded is "really funny" to you because you can't fathom Lucasfilm (and now along with Disney) intended to throw off their audience... that they could have managed to do this... that they did do it... that so many people collaborated on something truly special... and through a planned story - and everything involving its production and marketing - succeeded.
On 23/04/2023 at 10:25 AM, greenturnedblue said:Don't forget they sabotaged IX on purpose to seem incompetent
What do you think was sabotaged about IX? The part of the story it had to tell was told competently, and it had to end as Episode VI ended. ("It's likely poetry; they rhyme.")
On 23/04/2023 at 12:00 PM, GerateWohl said:It is simply obvious. JJ Abrams simply has one directive for Star Wars: Give the fans what they love most, just a little faster and louder and up to date.
That is why he took some ideas from Lucas treatments and made TFA more or less a remake of episode 4 with some nostalgia moments with Han and Leia and a death star, there had to be a death star again, because fans love death stars, even though storywise it made no sense at all.
Then Rian Johnson had one directive: People have high expectations and the want to be surprised. So I will surpise them by not fulfilling any of the fan's expectations.
That's how he added some substance with the Rey/Kylo plot and for the rest came up with some uninspired first hand ideas, which didn't really work out well.
Then came JJ again and brought back Palpatine, because the fans LOVE Palpatine, and fans love big battles. And the fans LOVE Lando, so we must bring him in. We don't really have a story, but they could search for McGuffins that lead them to Palpatine, so we have a plot. And everything must be bigger and louder. That is why now they have Star Destroyers and each of them can detroy an entire planet. But there is no story for that and we need to cut that short. So there is just one ship that controlls them all, like with the droid control ship. So, they just need to destroy that one. That is familiar. And fans LOVE things that they are familiar with. And we need to roll back most of the stuff Rian did. So repair Kylo's mask. He needs a mask. Fans LOVE masks. And Luke must be different. The fans didn't like how he was in Rian's movie. And Finn needs a new girl. etc. pp.
*sigh*
It is simply obvious. Lucasfilm understands Star Wars. They hired writers who understand Star Wars. Using George Lucas' story as the basis, the Saga continued and will continue.
From the very beginning, the Star Wars story has been made and presented in accordance with a deliberate tone and perspective. Lucasfilm knows what the fans think, want, and expect from Star Wars. But it's not Lucasfilm's duty to give the fans what they want or expect. On the contrary, Lucasfilm are giving them what they don't expect... all in the name of good storytelling, of course.
Remember, good stories may give you what they want. The best stories will give you what you didn't know you wanted.
On 23/04/2023 at 2:11 PM, GerateWohl said:The main argument, why there never was an overall plan for the SW saga is, if there was a plan, then it would be terribly stupid by Lucasfilm to hide it and to not use it for advertizing the saga (despite the fact that regarding the sequels it would have been a terrible plan).
Why should they hide the fact that there is an overall plan? There would be no logical reason to do so that would make any sense. Kathleen Kennedy is not Admiral Holdo.
You underestimate the power of surprise. The Star Wars audience doesn't know what they don't know. They think they understand Star Wars well enough... that it's the writers of 'the new Lucasfilm' who have lost the plot. The truth is, the audience never knew the plot... or Lucasfilm's plan to keep them distracted and assuming.
I'd say Kathleen Kennedy is like Admiral Holdo, in that the plan was not hers, but was the plan of her superior and mentor. In TLJ, the plan was Leia's. Concerning Star Wars, it's George Lucas.
On 23/04/2023 at 4:09 PM, Chen G. said:The man is actually much more of a writer than he would like us to think: the success of Star Wars is in its script, not it’s mise-en-scene.
Oh, you have no idea how right you are, Chen.
On 24/04/2023 at 3:15 AM, GerateWohl said:The last Mandalorian season managed, just like Andor and Bad Batch, something, that the sequel movies didn't manage: To include a view into the politics and the overall state of the galaxy. And that is an important part of Star Wars. Has always been. That, besides other things like the bad treatment of the characters like Finn and Poe and stupid plot decisions was always one of my main points of criticism for the sequels. To do so, of course you must have an idea about the state of the galaxy, which was obviously not the case for the writers of the sequels, who had more in mind how to stage space fights and nostalgia moments.
Why do you think the writers of the sequels didn't have an idea about the state of the galaxy? The events of TFA made it clear, starting with the opening scroll.
On 24/04/2023 at 4:16 AM, Jurassic Shark said:Why would they want that?
Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent because they have something special planned but don't want to show their strong hand just yet. I expect that Star Wars fans' high expectations will be unexpectedly exceeded.
On 24/04/2023 at 5:16 AM, Tallguy said:Oh! Oh! I know this one! BECAUSE IT ISN'T DONE BEING WRITTEN!
Why did Kathleen Kennedy say this? She did not have to mention the progress of the script. She said so much about this film. Why say anything except 'Rey will return'?
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3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:
Gonna need a source considering most "leaks" are fake. Remember the Photoshopped image of pregnant Rey circling around like a week ago?
I say that most "leaks" are not leaks. They are bits of 'info' Lucasfilm intentionally releases to the public to suit their intended purpose. I say this because they have proved themselves more than capable of keeping big secrets.
2 hours ago, Demodex said:How about how divisive TLJ was? That half of SW fans, including you, hated it? Was that all part of the plan?
A movie being divisive does not mean things 'went south'. It's not the job of the storytellers to please the audience - or make the most money possible - with each episode or volume of Star Wars. It's their job to tell their story.
2 hours ago, Demodex said:I know what it is now!
I already posted more than enough years ago.
2 hours ago, Demodex said:Could be true or total bullshit. Who knows. I don't even care.
If the film isn't even finished being written, how can anyone know what Rey's specific role is relative to another character? Rey is not the lead? Why would something like this be made up? If this is real, how could it possibly have leaked?
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10 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:
Quite the contrary actually, the most simple explanation is that things went south, 'cause it's always easier to fail than it is to succeed. The scheming, lying and deceiving you claim is happening at Lucasfilm is the opposite of simple.
I'd like to know what you think "went south". What evidence supports your position? Let me remind you that at Star Wars Celebration 2019 - shortly after the Episode IX "Roll it... again" teaser was shown - Kathleen Kennedy was asked directly if bringing back Emperor Palpatine was part of the plan from the beginning. She confirmed this was the case.
No, the simplest explanation is that nothing has gone south with Star Wars. Everything is proceeding as planned.
What's happening couldn't be clearer to me: Lucasfilm don't want the masses to figure out what they've been doing. So they adhere to a marketing/presentation strategy to keep their secrets. The audience becomes distracted by rumors, opinions, assumptions, and group think. All the unexpected, unwanted things coming out of Star Wars as of late are perceived as general incompetency... that Lucasfilm doesn't know or care what the fans want. This is a mistaken assessment of what really happening. This is how Lucasfilm are so successful in what they're doing... what they have always been doing.
But there's far more substance than distraction. The vast majority of these clues and elements of foreshadowing can be found within the Star Wars canon, starting with the 1976 film novelization. All told, the content of these volumes prove there was always a plan for Star Wars. Though, one must have a certain point of view to decode it all.
Consistent with the "effective Jedi trap", the Star Wars audience is currently on the far side of the galaxy so as not to interfere with their real plans. So that by the time the audience realizes what has happened, it will be already too late.
- Gabriel Bezerra and Demodex
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15 hours ago, Demodex said:
Even if the sequel trilogy was planned in advance (which it wasn't), I still have no idea why @Mattris thinks Episode 10 is already filmed.
It's not even out of pre-production stage yet. There is no evidence to lead anyone to think it's already filmed.
Some pages back, I shared my logic process regarding how I came to the conclusion that Episode X had already been filmed. Shall I copy-paste it for you?
A couple of weeks ago, Lucasfilm confirmed that a post-TROS movie is coming and revealed several things about it, things they certainly didn't need to: Rey will feature, what she will be doing, when its set, etc.
Few - other than me - expected such an announcement in the near future, so no one would have faulted Lucasfilm for withholding all information about it. This includes revealing that it's not even done being written. If that's the truth or a lie, why tell this to the world?
Now, there is a rumor/report/leak that "Rey isn't the lead" in the film. Thoughts?
15 hours ago, Demodex said:Also, he claims LFL is lying to us because it has something planned that will be so shocking. I can't think of anything they could do that would shock me enough to justify lying to its audience.
You'll see what it is. And remember, if this is Episode X, there will be two more films to complete the trilogy... and Saga... truly, this time.
15 hours ago, Demodex said:Occam's razor... They aren't lying to us.
Occam's Razor states that, when presented with two explanations, the more-simple explanation is likely the correct one. Regarding Star Wars, the most simple explanation is that there was always a plan, and that plan is still on.
12 hours ago, Demodex said:You know what? Yes, I will admit it's possible that you are right about the plan for the sequel trilogy.
It's possible the Trevorrow script was a fake.
I don't think it's possible Episode X was filmed already though.
I commend your progress. Why is Episode X having already been made (alongside IX) a bridge too far for you?
12 hours ago, Demodex said:Can you say that it's possible the rest of us can be right and we're not total idiots?
It's possible that the rest of you can be right in the same vein that it's possible that I can be struck by lightning when there is no storm present.
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I'll make it easier for you, @Demodex. Here are the remaining points and questions that you haven't addressed.
My intent is to move our debate/discussion forward because repeating the same points over and over - of which you ignore, dismiss, or doubt their legitimacy - is pointless.
Firstly, what you think happened in the sequel trilogy, especially it relates to the previous two trilogies?
On 23/04/2023 at 12:30 PM, Demodex said:Why on Earth would they admit that it was not planned? They purposely want to look like idiots? Well good job, because they do.
Can you think of any reason that Lucasfilm would want to look like idiots?
Speaking of a plan... In his published Star Wars: Fascinating Facts book, Pablo Hidalgo (the head of the Lucasfilm Story Group) reveals that the primary elements for the story of the sequel trilogy came from George Lucas. Do you believe him?
On 23/04/2023 at 12:30 PM, Demodex said:The next movie, whether it's Episode X or not, is not filmed yet. And if they bring Palps back again It is going to be laughed at considerably.
So certain are you? With such strong conviction, you should probably have a better idea than "if they bring Palps back again".
Why do you think so much was revealed about this 'Rey movie'?
Why do you think Kathleen Kennedy said that it wasn't even done being written?
On 23/04/2023 at 2:01 PM, Demodex said:No, they fucked up the trilogy and they want you to think that there was some master plan for the future.
What seems logical to you sounds incredibly illogical to every other person here. You just have delusions of grandeur.
That's not it at all. What happening here is that they want you to think there wasn't a master plan for the future. (You even said it yourself: 'Everybody knows this.' Yes, everybody knows what they were told by the very people they don't like/trust... and nothing else.)
What is illogical about my reasoning? Doubting Lucasfilm's competence and skill to deceive and distract is not counter evidence.
On 23/04/2023 at 2:01 PM, Demodex said:The fact that we are still arguing means you haven't put forth a credible explanation for your conclusions yet. They make absolutely zero sense.
You keep saying this. But the fact is, I've put forth a credible explanation for my conclusions more times than I probably should have.
What I'm saying does make sense if Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent. No plan for the trilogy AND the writer/director of the finale of the Saga was replaced after a script had already been written, two years after he had been hired? You suspect nothing is amiss here? Incompetence only? With stakes this high? All this after the (perceived) upheaval of the Saga that was The Last Jedi?
If you think there's nothing fishy about the so-called 'firing of Colin Trevorrow from IX', you should "know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks". Just like with Star Wars in general, the details make all the difference. Ignoring details - especially if you're already sure you're right about something - will not make you informed or correct. (It actually means you're more likely to be wrong.)
Concerning the truth of all this, you'll eventually realize that so many clues were hidden in plain sight. But the masses just couldn't drop their pride enough to fathom that Lucasfilm intended to trick their audience and succeeded with flying colors.
On 23/04/2023 at 12:30 PM, Demodex said:If after TROS came out they would have said Palpatine's return was the plan from the beginning, we would have accepted that.
I seriously doubt that.
Chris Terrio, JJ's co-writer on TROS, said that 'it was Kathleen Kennedy's intention for the Saga to have been telling one story'. We know for a fact that Palpatine was the 'big bad' of the previous two trilogies. Do you think they temporarily forgot this little detail and had to fire Trevorrow because he forgot too?
All evidence considered, the explanation seems obvious to me: Lucasfilm wants this audience to keep running with (false) narratives, especially that the Emperor's return wasn't planned because there was no plan at all for the trilogy. In doing so, they got their audience to assume so much that isn't so. All this because they are looking for maximum shock value with what comes next.
Finally, do you concede that it's possible that my explanation is the correct one?
Please address everything I've said here. If you respond like you normally do (doubt, saying there's no reason Lucasfilm would do this, calling me crazy, etc.), we will have wasted even more of our time.
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30 minutes ago, Demodex said:
No. The basis of my conclusion is everything I've ever heard about the production and writing of the sequel trilogy. There was no plan!!
"everything I've ever heard" Exactly. For a long while, the filmmakers just couldn't stop saying - or at the very least, implying - that there was no plan for the third Star Wars Saga trilogy, supposedly its conclusion. What reason could there have been to do this... for years? Perhaps they could have simply confirmed there was a plan when people asked them during the last decade? The logical answer to all this:
You hear only what Lucasfilm wants you to know... because they intend to trick their audience... because they have something special planned.
30 minutes ago, Demodex said:Pot, meet kettle. You can say there was a plan. I can say there wasn't. We have no way of knowing who is right. How do you not comprehend this yet after 178 pages?
Saying things is cheap. The evidence you've taken into account is a child-like interpretation of the films alone, as well as trust in the very people that are consistently making themselves look incompetent in their production of a Star Wars Saga trilogy and other Star Wars works.
On the other hand, I have made my conclusions, theories, and predictions based on primary evidence: the literal words of the official volumes of the Star Wars stories and its music. I am a critical reader/viewer/listener and have approached the story on its own terms as an allegory.
You should concern yourself with you own comprehension of Star Wars, @Demodex. I can assure you, mine is just fine.
I will now disengage from you until you have addressed every single one of my questions and points that you ignored on this page.
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8 minutes ago, Demodex said:
The next movie isn't filmed yet.
The fact that Palpatine returning was not planned until Abrams re-wrote TROS is pretty much known by everyone.
Rey was going to be a Kenobi originally. Abrams came up with the lame ass Palpatine thing while writing TROS.
The fact that you state these kinds of things as "fact" indicates of your lack of logic on this topic. Things you think are true - or are reported by others but not 100% provable and confirmed - are not "fact". It is only a fact that 'those things have been reported and/or assumed to be true.'
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5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:
Both previous Star Wars trilogies?
What about them do you think was not planned? Please be specific.
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25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:
Movie trilogies are overwhelmingly not planned in advance.
Movie trilogies that are telling one story, not three separate stories? Which ones? What about a third movie trilogy as part of one story?
25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:The norm in Hollywood is not to plan: if you do plan, you're set on a certain path whereas if you don't, you leave yourself room to self-correct.
Do you think that Star Wars was/is not "set on a certain path"?
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9 hours ago, Demodex said:
The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance. It would have been much better if it was.
The basis for your conclusion that "The sequel trilogy was not planned in advance" is your opinion of it? What do you think happened in these movies, especially as they relate to the previous Episodes? Please answer this.
9 hours ago, Demodex said:Lucasfilm has no motive for anything that you suggest. Why lie about the lack of planning? There's no reason for it. They could have said that Palps returning was planned from the beginning. It wouldn't have changed anything.
Yes, it would have changed everything. If they had said 'Palps was going to return' from the beginning of the trilogy, people would have been thinking about ways he could have been involved in the plots. But they didn't announce his return. This caused you (and so many people) to assume his return wasn't planned. And in doing so, they got you to assume so much that isn't so.
9 hours ago, Demodex said:We can agree to disagree because your theories are illogical.
Nope. My theories are 100% logical, based on facts and canon excerpts. It's your dismissal of these important things that is illogical, especially considering I was proven right about something so major.
9 hours ago, Demodex said:i don't know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks. It just doesn't make sense to pay someone for a script and production design that you know isn't going to be used.
It does if Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're (even more) incompetent. No plan for the trilogy AND the writer/director of the finale of the Saga was replaced after a script had already been written, two years after he had been hired? You suspect nothing is amiss here? Incompetence only? With stakes this high? All this after the (perceived) upheaval of the Saga that was The Last Jedi?
If you think there's nothing fishy about the so-called 'firing of Colin Trevorrow from IX', you should "know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks". Just like with Star Wars in general, the details make all the difference. Ignoring details - especially if you're already sure you're right about something - will not make you informed or correct. (It actually means you're more likely to be wrong.)
Concerning the truth of all this, you'll eventually realize that so many clues were hidden in plain sight. But you just couldn't drop your pride enough to fathom that they intended to tricked you and succeeded with flying colors.
7 hours ago, Brónach said:the combined conspiracy theory that Disney & Lucasfilm paid for an script and preproduction that wasn't meant to be used, that they paid for the entire production of a movie that already exists, and that they paid for the real episode IX in its entirety simultaneously, and that they planned doing so from the beginning, all of which are things that can be asked about to the people involved, is really funny
It's possible that Lucasfilm did not tell Colin Trevorrow about their plan, that he was hired as a patsy.
It's more likely that they informed him of the grand plan but instructed him to pre-produce an Episode IX without Emperor Palpatine... because Executive Producer JJ Abrams would be taking care of that. Hiring someone to write a script and create some production art isn't that expensive. Disney/Lucasfilm can afford it, especially if it supports their cause.
Trevorrow was busy working on his Jurassic World films. Looking back on it, it was kind of silly to think he was going to helm the end of a Star Wars trilogy in the midst of all that.
6 hours ago, rough cut said:Agreed. Let’s stop flooding this thread with over ambitious conspiracy theories. Nothing wrong with floating an opinion/idea/theory and expecting a reasonable response - but this is in absurdism. But it’s not only the fault of the initial poster, but also anyone who indulges such behavior.
Like the 'over ambitious conspiracy theory' that Emperor Palpatine would feature in Episode IX, having been responsible for a great many things? Who saw that one coming, having shown how it could have been planned and intended?
What's absurd is that so many people don't see the writing on the wall: IT'S A TRAP!!!
6 hours ago, rough cut said:So a fact and an opinion:
Regarding Episode 9 and Trevorrow's unused script, I don’t think that it in itself is a hoax. Nothing curious about a studio trying out multiple versions of a script, from different writers.
What you should be questioning is how/why the script 'leaked', along with its production art... on the same day. This is also absurd.
6 hours ago, rough cut said:What is interesting is that it actually seems a better movie than what we got.
Better in what way?
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21 hours ago, Giftheck said:
To actually contribute to the idea of this thread, after Andor, I've become really burned out on Star Wars as a whole and just want to take a break. I've been disappointed by more recent series and their finales. Maybe Andor was just too good in my eyes, or maybe I feel they're going too 'Marvel' with the amount. I probably won't watch Ahsoka when it comes out, and Skeleton Crew doesn't interest me. New movies... I kind of feel the same way towards these as I did in 2012, when they first announced the purchase of Lucasfilm and Episode VII. Almost complete apathy.
May I ask, what is the primary source of your Star Wars disenchantment?
17 hours ago, Demodex said:You have reading comprehension problems?
I meant there is no evidence that Trevorrow's script was fake.
There's no evidence that Episode X is already filmed.
There is no evidence that the sequel trilogy was planned in advance. (If it was it was planned horribly.)
I'm not talking about what's in the films. I'm talking about your ridiculous theories about Lucasfilm.
I have reading comprehension problems? It's ironic.
There is evidence that "Trevorrow's script was fake" if you approach and considers matters in context. For instance, do you think the script was 'leaked'... that Mr. Trevorrow did not want it to be made public? How about the associated production art and score slates that went public on the same day?
The same logic applies to the sequel trilogy being planned in advance and Episode X being already filmed. There simply too many pieces of evidence that, all told, point to the logical conclusion any sequel to IX would have been filmed concurrently. Such evidence can be found in the canon, as well things the cast/crew have stated... one thing Daisy Ridley said, in particular.
20 hours ago, Demodex said:@Mattris, you know I don't believe anything you have to say regarding Trevorrow's script and filming a movie at the same time as TROS.
There is no way to prove which of us is right. We will agree to disagree.
But nothing you've stated has been evidence to me.
Ignoring my questions and points will get you nowhere, @Demodex. But there is a way to prove which of is right: Watch what Lucasfilm does. They are making things happen. I am watching them happen. And you will be like, 'What happened?'
19 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:Evidence? Like how the script refers to the Emperor's dead body as "it" being alleged evidence for palps' return even though it also calls Jabba the hutts corpse "it" as well
Dead bodies referred to as "it" shouldn't be screaming, should they? This is but a drop in the bucket of the reality of all this.
14 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:Well yeah but you see, anything anyone says is wrong because they're lying
They usually only lie by omission. 'Surprise' is the name of their game.
53 minutes ago, Sweeping Strings said:Yeah ... my love for the original trilogy remains undiminished, and I enjoyed both The Force Awakens and Rogue One (and Solo, to a certain extent). But I really can't be bothered with what now seems like dozens of SW TV shows ... saturation that diminishes the brand (if the prequels, TLJ and TROS hadn't done that already, that is).
My my point of view, the shows are filled with clues that foreshadow what's coming. If so, it makes sense that Lucasfilm are cranking out "dozens of SW TV shows" now because they want to include as much as they can in the canon that proves they knew what they were doing. Because at some point - probably sooner than later - things will never look same ever again.
22 minutes ago, Brónach said:bad endings tend to sour entire things for me. bad endings multiple times, uh-oh.
Bad endings? Who said anything about endings? We only have to wait for the next Episode! Clearly some are more patient, informed, and hopeful than others.
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Nothing? I quoted many of the film and canon excerpts that I used to correctly predict how Emperor Palpatine's involvement would make sense of everything in TFA and TLJ. I can't think of anything else that could have explained why the Saga should have continued past ROTJ. Can you? That's because it was planned, why George Lucas approved of Dark Empire.
JJ Abrams' favorite scene from the prequels is 'The Opera Scene'. I see now that it foreshadowed much to happen and be revealed.
And I'll say again, the ROTS novelization is a gold mine of Star Wars insight... and far superior to the film, from my point of view, of course.
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39 minutes ago, Demodex said:
What did she say? Wait a minute. I thought everything they tell us is a lie?
They = Lucasfilm
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Quote it here. I think she only lied when she implied there wasn't a plan for the sequel trilogy when she said, "We're making this up as we go." (of course, borrowing a line from Raiders.)
Pablo Hidalgo confirmed that the primary elements for the story of the sequels came from George Lucas.
39 minutes ago, Demodex said:They = Lucasfilm
Lucasfilm are "not that competent" starting when, exactly?
39 minutes ago, Demodex said:🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Making two films would explain why they were 'rushed'.
Think about it. Why admit publicly you're rushed? Perhaps it was a clue that they're trying to tell us what's really happening in (not so) subtle ways... so that when they finally reveal what they've been up to all this time, it will all make sense... and they can take credit for having not destroyed Star Wars.
Makes sense to me, especially when the literal words of the stories are taken into consideration.
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Why not? How competent are they? Better yet, who are "they"?
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8 hours ago, Demodex said:
Logical? Really? 😄😄😄
Based on all sorts of evidence, my reasoning was very logical, yes.
Have you have forgotten that Lucasfilm are very good at keeping secrets? Can you not grant the (very real) possibility that they intended to trick the masses into thinking so many things that are not true... that something big is coming that you did not expect?
8 hours ago, Demodex said:It was a joke. But considering how dumb TROS was, I'm not expecting a good movie.
By getting you to think that, they have you right where they want you.
8 hours ago, Demodex said:How many times do we have to tell you TROS was rushed? Abrams had little time to write and film it because they cancelled Trevorrow's script. (It wasn't a fake.)
Rushed because they had to complete two films.
From the time he was officially announced as the new writer/director of Episode IX, JJ Abrams and his team had an entire year to write and an entire year to produce.
8 hours ago, Demodex said:What are you talking about?? So much has been revealed? We know almost nothing about it other than it takes place 15 years after TROS.
Did I miss an announcement or something?
Yes. You keep missing things. Look into what Kathleen Kennedy said during SWC 2023. You can even quote it here, if you want to talk about it.
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14 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:
Because movies always have some sort of 'scavenger hunt' whether literal, metaphorical or figurative. Am I wrong?
Yes, you are wrong. Most movies do not have some sort of "scavenger hunt", a specific plot... as opposed to the general plot element of 'discovery'.
13 hours ago, Demodex said:My prediction: The new movie will actually take place 15 years after TROS. Rey will already be training Jedi at her new academy.
(A movie about her finding Jedi would be pretty boring and repetitive.)
Then a threat from outside the galaxy shows up with the ability to destroy planets (it is SW afterall) and Rey and her Jedi have to figure out a way to stop it.
Why do you think so much was revealed about this 'Rey movie'? How could Lucasfilm advantage themselves by announcing that it wasn't even done being written?
A new threat that Rey and gang are gonna try and stop? How exciting! Are they gonna be successful? Will there be a sequel? How did you come up with this amazing theory?
13 hours ago, Demodex said:Because I've got all the evidence in canon source materials.
Could you give us a sample of your findings, as I did years ago?
13 hours ago, Demodex said:Mattris, let's see who is closer to the actual plot.
We will see. I'm looking forward to it.
13 hours ago, Demodex said:And I call bullshit that the movie is already filmed. Why you keep believing that is beyond me.
Across dozens of posts that contained evidence and logical reasoning, I already told you.
13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:And if the movie was already scored, then it would need to have already been edited (at least a rough cut) for John to be able to write anything cohesive
Remember, JJ had his editing team with him in Africa while they were shooting IX. It's like they were rushed, or something.
13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:meaning that it would be finished completely by now. So they would have no reason whatsoever to sit on it for several more years.
I agree. It's already been several years.
13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:Why am I engaging in this?
Because my wacky theories are irresistible.
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3 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:
Prove me wrong then, what are some movies that do not follow those plot progressions?
I didn't make that claim. I just pointed out that you inserted "scavenger hunt" into the story tropes as you attempted to make a point.
3 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:Sounds like X is going to be a repeat of IX (we need to find the sith dagger, which leads to the wayfinder, then someone to reset C3PO, then find Exegol) and we all know how that turned out
I think the film will have a similar urgency as IX, perhaps with less of a (perceived) threat.
How did IX turn out?
3 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:"protagonist searching for and finding clues, objects, people, and places" is again extremely vague and a generic formula every movie follows
Ok then. What if I added that the gang was seeking to salvage or reactivate something... like, say, a scavenger would.
2 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:Like any adventure movie ever?
Sure. Though Star Wars has a bit of deeper meaning than "any adventure movie ever".
Star Wars Disenchantment
in General Discussion
Posted
How do you know those things if they are not known?
The better question is, did you really spend time coming up with those silly things because you don't know what is not known about Star Wars? If you don't play along, then I can only conclude that, like I supposed, you don't know what you don't know.
How about this: Do you know what definitively is known about Star Wars?