TheUlyssesian

Lol. Why would I? Am I related to Williams? Am I his secretary? Investor in his estate? His son-in-law? I wouldn't even take offense if someone said that about myself even. It's preposterous to thing I would take offense about something said about a public person.

Right. So I called you "unpleasant" and your posts "whining buffonery", "poisonous" and "needless vitriol" and we proceeded from there. Is it poetic justice that fans of Zimmer lack articulation, grace and subtlety?

What an interesting conversation we are having, as interesting as Zimmer's music. Truly Zimmer brings out the best in us.

Ah you got me. I was just pretending. I deeply care about what you think of me.

This is very likely headed to Cannes. If so that's great news as should be good exposure for John Williams score.

Even if I wanted to hate on Zimmer more (what you call whining and wallowing and what not), it wouldn't occur to me to worry about you one bit.

Have been listening to this a bit of late. This is truly a spectacular score. The best of the year so far, dare I say. Many of the themes are very interesting (there are atleast 5 clear themes) and they are intelligently applied and orchestrated. I think this might very well be a 5 star effort.

I will think and say as I please. Thank you.

What fantastic news! I am available once again to sign from roof-tops and dance in the streets. Now he just needs to retire from the genre of film music.

Exactly. A soundtrack album is released under that principle. That you listen to the music outside of the film. If that were not the case, they would not even release it.

Neither Kubrick or Malick really used (or in Malick's case) use "normally" composed film scores. They usually employe(d) pre-existing music to great effect but that's not what we are talking about right. Anyways this seems like an extremely circular argument that seems like will further lead us into a discussion of semantics and specifics terms (like theme development and theme variation which albeit different would lead you to think that what I meant in my post would have been adequately apparent). Such an engagement in most cases is fruitless and just for the sake of it. So let's just end with my own subjective opinion finding music like BvS thoughtless, unimaginative and tiresome and your own subjective opinion find it enjoyable and stimulating.

If not you could practically write a 5 minute suite and track the entire movie if it all has to sound the same. Movies are narratives with highs and lows and crescendos. Good music, it could be argued, would atleast seek in theory to support that experience with its own ebbs and flows. And not to get academic, but its something worthier for a thoughtful (non hack) composer to write. Otherwise its so un-engaging to the composer himself, forget the listener.

Is there really a Batman "theme" though? Anybody latch on to one yet? The Superman "theme" from MOS ZERO development. Heard it once, heard it all. Its still stated on solo piano exactly the same way. If that is all how the theme can be stated, speaks to its simple-minded construction.

If you search intensely enough with your heart, you can even find god.

No kidding. I put on my head phones. And clicked play on the first track and I had the good sense to keep the volume at middle and.... my ear drums almost burst. Dear god. I dove for the volume control in self protection and reduced it to 5% - where it shall stay. Is this how it will sound in the theaters too? -- Listening to the first track... my impression... that's a lot of drums. Listening to the second track... something.... from MOS was reprised and my heart sank. I was like, "Not this shit again." Listened to a couple of other tracks and the general feeling is... this is a truly big orchestral score.... scored for an orchestra of 200 drum players and ... one solo voice?

It of course has an interlude/bridge. You COULD do a concert version of a "theme" let's say just 4 phrases but say it takes only 20 seconds, how would you fill 3 minutes with just that identity. You would need a bridge or interlude to prop it up (I am using these words as a layman, I dunno what the musical terms for these things are). Otherwise its just repeating the 4 phrases again and again. Like the famous Shire theme. It cannot have a stand alone concert suite (atleast I haven't heard one) in its original form because there's not enough material to fill out the length of a concert suite. Before you kick in your disdain, let me say that I am not in the least musically educated and am only a listener.

A concert version would be inappropriate because like others say, it IS infact a motif. It is short and has just 4 phrases, there is no interlude or bridge so to say and a new one would have to be written to play it at any great length.

Man, I just creamed my pants. So epic damn! Themes? Lol fail. Themes are for Disney films. Are you a Marvel fan? Who needs themes? Give me bat-god awesomeness drums. Now excuse me while I go jack off some more lol.

E.T. for sure. The opening piano solo from the end credits of E.T. is some of the most famous and well-known music he has ever written. I think few end title cues have this much recognizablility. It is also something new for the end credits, a solo piano version, which we hadn't heard throughout the score. Its my favorite for sure. Must have listened to it hundreds on hundreds of time.

Apparently the soundtrack album for this has leaked. Anybody tried it yet. I read some comments on imdb, they called it, "IMO the greatest soundtrack ever created for a motion picture". I am now so hyped!

But wouldn't talented musicians who can play an instrument well count among music enthusiasts? I would think so. I think they could appreciate Williams. But not the general populace. I think what I am saying is just in the recognition of the fact that in a way Williams has changed and evolved. The era of those really catchy tunes has passed for him I think. His last period is marked by often complex music that might be beyond the ken of most casual film-goers to appreciate, Also his elaborately and densely orchestrated music might seem old fashioned to people who are now used to Zimmer like simplistic power anthems scores which are just loud. I love Williams and am not denying his greatness. Just saying he's probably reaching the position of .. let's say great European arthouse directors... appreciated by those "in the know" but not by a huge mass. His music is heard by a great many of course due to the success of the film but it is not as appreciated as it might have been. He's like lets say late Eastwood in directing, people are probably aware of his work but don't see greatness in it anymore, but his fans do.

A discussion I had with 2 of my room-mates. Room-mate 1: I was watching Interstellar, Hans Zimmer is sooooooo awesome. Room-mate 2: Hans Zimmer's scores are my favorite for sure. Like POTC, just wow. Me: Hans Zimmer is absolute and utter shit. His scores are horrible. Room-mate 1: (traumatized) What????? Are you kidding????? He's the most famous composer in the world. Room-mate 2: Who do YOU like? Me: John Williams. Room-mate 1 and 2: Who??? At that moment, I felt the earth should split open and swallow me. ---- This might sound absolutely terrible but Hans Zimmer's scores today are far more influential and widely heard than anything Williams writes. My room-mates who don't know anything about music have often played Zimmer scores at home. They could not even name Williams. I have many friends who I have asked to name a Hollywood composer and most can name only one - Hans Zimmer. If they can name 2, the second is James Horner (that Titanic guy). -- So TFA score will have ZERO cultural impact and zero influence on film-scoring. Why? For the former, the music is too complex for general audiences to appreciate. Only music enthusiasts can appreciate a score like TFA, it is too refined for general audiences. For the latter? Carter Burwell said it, there is NOBOBY in Hollywood, save maybe Shore and a few others, who can even dream about writing music as orchestrally and sonically complex. Williams style cannot be adopted by other composers because frankly nobody can even do it. So late Williams will remain in a bubble, loved and appreciated only by his fans and enthusiasts, it has zero relevance beyond that.

I think in general amongst cinephiles, many of whom I know, there is a general disdain for these kind of big scores. The favorite of the hippies is either Hateful Eight or Carol. Hateful Eight because they think Morricone is a legend (many would think he's bigger legend than Williams which to me just doesn't hold water). There is an almost this comically entrenched feeling that less is better or new is better. You notice that in film-making preference too. Many of these same people scoff at the old school classicism in the film making of Eastwood or Spielberg. Anyhow, I must say the Carol score is extremely effective in film. The film has less dialog than usual and both the opening and finale and entirely worldless and the music takes centre stage and does a good job. I'd watch out for that as a spoiler if Williams and Morricone cancel each other out. But yeah, Morricone has it, these awards are very momentum based. Morricone already won the Golden Globe and BFCA. He'll next win Bafta and it will just become one of those things.

I will say this in favor of Giacchino, he has a very small ego, he essentially is always trying to serve the film. In many cases (and I love this about Williams) Williams has written stuff simply because he can do it even if the film didn't need it. Williams is a preposterously talented composer who will compose great music whatever context you provide him. So his music can be a bit show-offy at times, more constructed as a musical exercise to hear on album than something applied with great harmony to a film. Giacchino is much less talented and probably could not even compose something dazzling just for the sake of it. So he's more humble and film serving in a way so to say. His score always work very well in the films themselves. Same with Tomorrowland, the score works well in the film as is usual with his other films too.