Barnald

We didn't imagine it: https://www.thewrap.com/lord-of-the-rings-war-of-rohirrim-peter-jackson-animated-footage/ I suppose it depends what exactly they mean by 'power'.

Didn't someone also mention a lost 'tribe' of Amazonian Rohirrim being in this? Can't help but think this one looks, walks and quacks like... something.

Well, like I said before, better the Devil. If Tauriel fulfills that quota, so be it. I was talking more from a 'logical' perspective rather than a 'modern filmmaking' one. Probably safe to say it's the latter that has us all mighty apprehensive when it comes to this project.

You (somewhat) jest, but I think you've hit upon the issue of Tauriel being in this. It appears for all the world pointless, since we can only envisage a retread of certain threads from The Hobbit and ultimately her death. Even if she lived, what would be the point? If you're going to make big exceptions for her, then this thing is at risk of becoming the Tauriel show, which would be absurd. I've no issue with her as a glorified background character, but I'd worry the writers would feel compelled to do something more substantial with her, which would be a big mistake. And yes I realize you could say 'what is the point' of this film in general, but since it's happening I'd at least rather they stuck to non-invented characters.

They might be tempted to go for a similar characterization with Thranduil, in that he isn't happy about Gandalf and Aragorn coming to his door and doesn't permit Legolas (and say Tauriel) to join them in hunting Gollum (or even bringing him back to Mirkwood eventually). Yet they can't push this tension too far, since Legolas will be Thranduil and the Woodland Realm's representative at the Council of Elrond after all. I can't imagine Thranduil would be too happy if he's of the mind that the Orc attack was not coincidental, and was intended to help free Gollum (I believe Tolkien does suggest the attack might have conducted for this purpose, though I may be wrong about that).

I'm genuinely curious to know where exactly they think that 'thread' would go, and why it would be worth exploring. Let's see: - Presumably she stuck around in Mirkwood, moping? Do we presume she was forgiven by Thranduil, and has remained favoured in his military? - Presumably Legolas would have gone off to find Aragorn at some point, though I think it definitely best if he's back at Mirkwood when this film begins. - So what's the situation? Are Tauriel and Legolas now together? Would Thranduil approve? Is she still in the business of defying Thranduil? Has anything really changed? Would people care? The writers are seemingly constrained by the parameters of a 'Hunt for Gollum' film. In this scenario, one suspects Legolas and Tauriel would accompany Gandalf and Aragorn from Mirkwood to the outskirts of Mordor. Legolas and Tauriel would take Gollum back to the Woodland Realm, or at least Mirkwood if they feel Thranduil won't be best pleased. One imagines Tauriel dies in the attack that frees Gollum. Legolas can have his 'why does it hurt so much?' moment.

If it's a case of Tauriel over a new invented character, I'll take the Devil I know. And she'd be more palatable without Kili around. Radagast, sure, I think if you're doing this 'properly' there's definitely a place for him. Just tone down the antics. And Thranduil is absolutely necessary given Mirkwood has to be prominent. In terms of notable 'new' characters, where's the scope? Book characters, maybe Halbarad, even Elladan and Elrohir, though people would then ask where they've been before now (in a Jackson film sense). The Blue Wizards? As for invented characters, in an organic sense I'm struggling. Some ranger of the north? Another Elf? It would require drastic shoehorning for anything else, let's be honest, though you wouldn't discount anything these days. On the evil side of things, I suppose some new big bad Orc might be required, given the climactic attack on the Woodland Realm that allows Gollum to escape. I know people would like to see Khamul in Dol Guldur, but I don't know how this could be done, given 'the Nine' leave Minas Morgul, and appear to remain as one until they're washed away at Bruinen. I do think there's room to have him lead Sauron's forces in the War in the North if they choose to do a film about that, since I'm not sure if we see all 9 together even in ROTK, but that's another matter.

Maybe the appeal of this film will be its familiarity? As you've said before, we've had Amazon's Middle-earth, so WB and PJ could be looking at it like 'here's the "real deal", with the characters and places you know'. True there's not much scope for new places and people, but in the case of the latter, that can hardly be a bad thing... I think they should show some of Gollum's earlier wanderings post-Hobbit (leaving the Misty Mountains, going to Laketown and Dale) via flashbacks (you could have Gandalf talking about various reports and rumours to Aragorn and show some of it). Say the last place he was glimpsed was in Mirkwood, then pick up his story from there, so we see his brush with the Mirkwood Elves (Legolas) and my idea about him hiding in Dol Guldur and looking in the Palantir before heading off south (like I said before - PJ, Boyens, Walsh - if you're desperate and inexplicably browse these forums, feel free to use it. You know it makes sense).

I see Boyens mentioned having an idea for a second animated feature if this one goes well (erm...). Anyone else think this would be a 'Young Aragorn' film? I'm not convinced this will be the route they go for the second live-action film, so it seems like the best medium for it.

I'm not going to argue that the material isn't thin, but between the bits in Shadows of the Past and Council of Elrond in particular, it is a bit more than 3 lines (admittedly more like 3 pages lol). Depending how they do this film, it could be quite fast-moving. The material in terms of episodes/events is reasonably dense, but of course, you're talking about fashioning an entire script around these events, using almost entirely invented dialogue. The potential for failure is there from the off, and that's even before we've got into AI de-aging and such.

On the evidence of his non-documentary output since BOTFA, he must have been referring to shooting home movies around his house.

Right now I'm clinging onto this being a single film set within the timeline of the FOTR film as the best hope of it being largely free of massively invented nonsense (like made-up major characters). Yes they'll have to use some imagination of course, but if you want it to be consistent with the film you've already made, surely they can't go crazy (can they?). Hell, why not go all out and shoot it on 35mm (zero chance of that).

Bilbo's party makes sense as a start point only if you're going to use the hunters and the hunt as the primary focus, as Gollum leaves the Misty Mountains well over 50 years beforehand. Obviously the Mines of Moria is the end point for Gollum because he has to end up in there (and in book timeline terms this would be a few months before the Fellowship end up there, so probably less in the film - not that they'd need to clarify this). I'd have the last scene be Gollum sneak in via the West Gate, which is open because Balin and his company have been defeated (you see the odd Dwarven and Orc body). I wouldn't actually show Balin's defeat - just have a scene with Gandalf and Aragorn passing through there a few months prior where the threat is heavily implied. Because it's important Gandalf doesn't know Balin's colony has fallen right? Otherwise the events of FOTR (film) make no sense. But obviously in FOTR he's concerned about what might await them in Moria, so you could show him being aware of their plight.

As expected really: https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/lord-of-the-rings-hunt-for-gollum-wont-be-two-films-second-philippa-boyens-exclusive/ Though I don't see how the second film would need to be Gandalf-heavy. The Hunt for Gollum, yeah. The perspective thing does concern me, but with the film being set after Bilbo's party (and so set seemingly entirely during the 'events' of FOTR, if you will) I'm hopeful, because if this thing was going to be entirely from Gollum's perspective, why not start it a few years after The Hobbit?

They'd be very wise to make use of body doubles for Viggo in particular during more kinetic scenes. As I said before, we don't want a repeat of De Niro's infamous 'beatdown' in The Irishman...