Chen G.

Yeah, but the pursuit wasn’t an action scene in the most defined way. It’s the connective tissue between the opening action setpiece and the “false” third act. But yeah, the film had action sequences all right, they just weren’t effectively threaded throughout the entire runtime.

The third act begins at the point in which: a) the main character (or cast) is at his or her lowest point and b) the character makes an active decision that will see him or her through to the end of the film, which is where it ends. Films are occasionally constructed to have a false third act: Prisoner of Azkaban has one, before the introduction of time travel; Toy Story 3 has one, in the form of the confrontation with the villain; Casino Royale kinda has one, too; The Desolation of Smaug has one, with the Dwarves failed attempt to kill the dragon. Technically, the false third act is part of the second act, yes. If you go by the five-act structure, which subdivides the second act into three separate segments (instead of two halves, as customary in the three-act paradigm), I suppose the false third act would line-up with the last third of the second act. The Last Jedi ostensibly has a false third act which wraps up the stories of Rey, Finn and Rose, and Poe, leaving the actual third act to wrap up Luke’s story, him being the actual main character of the film: films that have a false third act often have a false protagonist (here its Rey), as well. False third acts are tricky to pull off well, though. As is often the case with the midpoint twist, it’s easy to make the false third act so spectacular or suspenseful that it either can’t be topped by the actual third act, or that the audience is already checked-out before the third act, regardless, and it just feels tacked on. Had enough to learn about screenwriting?

What you call inconsistent tone, is tonal variety to others, which I always find welcoming. And yes, between the second and third film you had wildly different filmmakers, so they don’t really feel like they’re in the same franchise. But I have that “problem” with Kirshner directing Empire Strikes Back, and it’s an issue people now have with The Last Jedi. Really, the only way to craft a truly cohesive series is to go the Jackson-route and outline, write, prepare, previsualize, cast, shoot and essemble the entire thing in advance, with the same director and production crew throughout.

I love how dark The Order of the Phoenix can get. It gives it a much greater sense of stakes, but it’s the kind of movie that took me a couple of rewatches to fully appreciate. It’s also a much better directed movie than The Goblet of Fire.

Let’s say there’s no action in the second act. You have the opening “James Bond” action sequence, the Paetorian and Phasma battles in the false third act, and the Battle of Crait in the actual third act. I wouldn’t dignify the fathier sequence with the term “action scene.”

With Jackson directing, I doubt Williams will have managed to score this, anyway. Most directors let the composer do his thing and maybe ask for changes to a cue here or a theme there. Jackson, on the other hand, is sitting through the entire recording sessions and constantly calls for changes until the music fits his vision. Williams doesn’t work like that.

Yeah, but the film showed that no one responded to Leia’s call, so - regardless of the time gap, which I have no doubt will be sizable - having that element undone offscreen would be a thematic cop-out, I think.

The diminished size of the rebellion doesn’t lend itself to that. I would imagine something more along the lines of an insurgency mission.

I don’t believe you’d find anything in the way of new themes. Williams typically arranges the OST to feature all the leitmotives in the work.

I didn’t read the books after the third one, and I have a very faint memory of those, as well, so I’m coming at it from a purely cinematic viewpoint: i.e. if there’s something I don’t like, I won’t accept the defense that “that’s how it was in the book” unless it’s something very, very crucial to the nature of the story. That’s how all adaptations should be examined: as a film.

Exactly! But its true nonetheless. I like not just the action material but also The Last Jedi, as a whole, better, for just that reason, and that reason alone. Especially as far as the film-mix goes!

On the level of the actual material - I suppose you could make the argument for The Force Awakens material being superior. But because The Last Jedi has a much fuller sound, which is very important indeed to a Star Wars score, especially in the action material, I have to favor The Last Jedi.

With the expection of a few books that were intentionally written to read like a screenplay - it means a lot. The goal of the adaptation is to serve the film, not the source material. A faithful adaptation is one that makes for a captivating, cinematic story, while capturing the tone, the themes, the style of dialogue, the main cast and their principal characteristics and the basic contuor of the plot from the source material. Anything else can and should be shuffled around, trimmed, removed, embellished, created from scratch or re-imagined - all in favor of making the best film possible. In other words: the best adapted screenplay, is the one who is closest to an original one. As long as we’re not discussing comedies or possibly horror films, I feel like we can ground large parts of this discussion, and others, in objectivity. There are identifiable (and therefore objective) elements in the writing and directing of a film that can elevate drama, suspense, tension and action. That such elements are objective doesn’t always make them, or rather their impact, quantifiable. One will put more weight on the positive elements, and another will put more on the negative.

Film theory poses very clear criteria according to which a film is tested, so it’s more than just “opinions.” The Chris Columbus entries effectively don’t have scripts: they have an abridged version of the book. As such, they - objectively - lack the narrative thrust that is required of film.

It’s a coincidence, too. You think Williams was trying to quote Battle of the Heroes? For what? And I’m not using either to critique the score. It’s the sort of thing that tends to happen in these sorts of long pieces.

I have no memory of reading the book, and I followed the movie just fine. It’s the best of the series. That’s another aspect to a good adaptation: that it’s made for people who have never, and never will, read the source material.

Which potential? The potential to be completely and utterly bogged down by the source material in a vein attempt to slavishly follow it beat-for-beat? In sub-par, borderline theatrical performances? In a complete lack of stakes? In a story structure as flimsy as a house of cards? In uninspired camerawork? I’m being intentionally overly harsh to make a point, which is that it’s most likely nostalgia talking rather than any attempt to view these films through rigorous film theory.

Coincidence, says I.

It depends on your tolerance, but one could very easily make a case for the Columbus entries being bad. I’m far more forgiving to the first entry, it being the first of the lot, and Columbus and the screenwriter not knowing what will be important for upcoming installments, but since I can’t easily forgive the second entry for that, I would say it is a bad movie. The third and fifth films are very, very good. It was never going to be a cinematic masterwork, I think. But I enjoy those films greatly.

Yeah, out of the amazing music written for the prequel trilogy, Battle of the Heroes and especially Padme's Ruminations are possibly the worst choice of track imaginable. The latter in particular, sounds like it had been lifted straight out of Gladiator, and it sounds better there, than in Revenge of the Sith!

Yes. It’s not quite a re-imagining of the book; it’s just that the adapted material isn’t just The Hobbit - it’s also the appendices, mainly Durin’s Folk. In fact, I would argue that it’s an adaptation of Durin’s Folk, first, seeing how dwarf-centric the films are. And again, I like it better as a dwarf-centric story! There’s no other story like it in Tolkien’s work, and it also sets it apart from not just The Lord of the Rings but also from most film franchises of this sort, while still lending itself to the epic scope. And it makes the music bloody awesome.

Its too hard to choose! I will say, The Force theme (Ben Kenobi's theme) is my favorite of the whole catalogue. Its possibly my favorite Williams theme overall. Especially the variations in Binary Sunset and in The Throne Room, and some of the "darker" variations in the prequels. That it doesn't have its own concert presentation is a crime. After that, things get confusing for me in terms of rating, so I'll just point out to a couple in no particular order. Again, I want to preface that I'm coming to this from the point of view that the unabridged theme is one leitmotivic unit, rather than a string of several leitmotives. Lament for Anakin: While it only appears around the midpoint of Revenge of the Sith, it is derived from the B-phrase of Across the Stars, so it feels like we heard it before, and comes to define - to my mind - that score. It recieves beautiful statments in Anakin's Betrayal and the Immolation scene. One of my very favorite themes. Leia's theme: Originally, it was concieved as yet another love theme, for Leia and Luke. Nevertheless, or perhaps because of that, it is a beautifull theme. While I take an issue with the lifting of material from the concert suite in The Last Jedi, I have to admit it was very emotionally resonant as Leia flew across space! Leia's love theme: Well, its so closely sewn with Leia's main theme that I really couldn't not put it here, could I? Luke and Leia: Criminally underused by Williams' standards, but that makes its statements all the more precious and resonant. The Imperial March: By far the most popular of the list, this is actually one of my lesser favorite themes. The way it evokes 1930's germany is too on-the-nose for me. It really sounds like something the Hitlerjugend would march to! Duel of the Fates: I have passion for choral, operatic passages, and Duel of the Fates is some of the best in the buisness. It is thematically dodgy: Its just a "climactic duel" theme, used regardless of the identity of the combatants, but still. Rebel fanfare: It doesn't seem to be getting as much love in this thread, but if you want to think about a short, concise motive which is emblematic of the "Star Wars sound" - that's the one. You hear it - and you know what you're listening to. Yoda's theme: I love that theme. The playful "bridge" I could do without, though.

Sadly, I think you're right.

Oh, I get that. Like I said, I like that it is the way that it is! Certainly from a musical standpoint, but also in terms of the narrative. I don't think I would have liked the alternative, loyal to the source material though it may be, nearly as much.

But, technically, its true: Bilbo is kind of a false protagonist. Sorta like a lot of people see Frodo as a false protagonist, standing in for Sam. Its clearly what Jackson intended: whenever he was interviewed about the trilogy, he described the story as the company making their way to reclaim the mountain, not as "Bilbo discovering his courage." Essentially, Bilbo's story concludes at the end of An Unexpected Journey. I like it the way it is, you don't - fair enough.