Incanus 5,715 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Wow you have been busy Messenger! Great observations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Oh right - I think I noticed that at point, then forgot to note it later. I'd guess the album is edited, I doubt they'd bother to insert an Insert into the End Credits, I think they just took the whole unedited cue and stuck it in there because it was the length they needed with the tone they wanted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 So, um.. for the "Deleted Scenes" what should I call these tracks in my edit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Whatever you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Well here's the thing, I don't know the scenes which they are for, so for instance, I separate the Deleted Scene cue in Axe and Sword that is right next to The Invention of Golf, I don't know what it could score, so I would have no basis for naming it, other than an uninspired "Deleted Cue #2" etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 I don't know what it could score either. Nobody does until the EE comes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Well, in the film, a string arrangement of the Shire theme plays there, so I assume the CD version is just an alternate, which was later replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 OK, I think I just noticed two more themes in The Hobbit, one motif is first heard in Axe or Sword, and is repeated (only on CD of course) in A Good Omen.Also in Brass Buttons, at the end, there is a choir bit, that is reprised in Out of the Frying Pan, which would (theoretically) have scored Thorin charging Azog.So I have dubbed these two motifs:#1: The Bilbo's Fate Themeand#2: Thorin's Faith (or lack therof) theme.I don't think the end of My Dear Frodo was looped in the film. The very end of it (underscoring the last shot of Thorin forging a sword) doesn't sound like anything we hear in the track.I think its tracked from "A Good Omen" the end of the bit in MDF sounds like the bit that leads into the Thorin theme as they look at the mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 So, here are pretty much all the themes I have identified:Main Title ThemeMisty Mountains ThemeErebor ThemeThorin ThemeAzog's MotifShadow over Mirkwood MotifBilbo Fussy MotifBilbo's Adventure ThemeBaggins/Took ThemeGandalf's Theme #1Gandalf's Theme #2Radagast Theme #1Radagast Theme #2Warg ThemeFalling MotifGoblin Theme #1Goblin Theme #2Thorin Faith ThemeBilbo Fate ThemeAnd here is the scorepedia page where I (well anybody can of course) will update this list if I notice any more themes: http://en.scorepedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit:_An_Unexpected_JourneyTHIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED FOR ACCURACY. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Also, what are the two goblin themes you mention? Oh and main theme??One of them that is used in the beginning of Goblintown Escape.The other is in the beginning of Goblintown.Main Theme is the theme from My Dear Frodo, that reappears in A Good Omen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I don't think a theme that appears twice on album and only once in the film deserves to be called "main theme". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I don't think a theme that appears twice on album and only once in the film deserves to be called "main theme".Duly noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 It appears on film though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The word Goblin is used in the place of Orc in the Hobbit so we can't be sure what kind of creatures the goblins or Orcs assaulting the Lonely Mountain will be. I would hazard a guess that they won't be these disease ridden filth that we saw in the Goblin Town though but more closer to the Orcs we saw in LotR films. But no doubt the Orcish musical palette will accompany whatever Orcish creatures that are going to be in the next films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I think having both the Goblins and Azog and his retinue hunt for the Company into the forest would have been redundant. In FotR they chose to cut that particular scene out, in the Hobbit I doubt there ever was such a scene of the Goblin Town creatures chasing the Thorin's company down the mountainside and into the forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The goblin theme at the start of under hill is absolutely brilliant, it's shame it only appears here on the album (as far as I can tell). Does it appear any other times in the film? Agreed on the theme. I love it! If I remember correctly, it only appears once in the film as well (some variations are heard when the Goblin King tells them to search the Dwarves and when he sees the Goblin Cleaver, though).I hope it is a full theme he will use more of.ockquote>I mean, in the book, the Goblins are so pissed the Dwarves killed their king that they decide to chase them after they escaped the Misty Mountains (leading to the out of the frying-pan sequence), but in the film, once the Dwarves have left the Misty Mountains, we don't hear from the Goblins again, and I honestly doubt we'll ever hear from them again in the films...ockquote>Isn't that kind of like in the fellowship? I seem to remember the goblins were supposed to chase the fellowship out of Moria into Lothlorien I think, but the in the film it was cut. And sorry KK, I missed the word once in my sentence.That makes more sense. I really like the theme too, and I'm hoping we'll hear more of it in The Battle of the Five Armies. I think the Goblins will show up in the final battle again. Just because they didn't chase the Company down the trees doesn't mean they're not angry enough to join the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 It's the same five intervals though isn't it?Same intervals as what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I just figured something out:The Pity of Bilbo and Outside are tracked, the music when Gollum is freaking out ("thief thief"!) is tracked from The Hill of Sorcery, with the Mordor theme dialed out, meaning the ending, is just the ending of The Hill of Sorcery, which was edited out of the OST track.also I believe Where's Bilbo is the true cue, and that "Faint", the film version of "The Adventure Begins" etc, are trackedand I have theorised, that The Edge of the Wild, is the main title music for DOS, with the Company theme appearing over "The Hobbit" logo.Also The Dwarf Lords, is obviously for Dain's people/Thorin's Kinsfolk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 oooh! the bit at the end, is most likely what originally scored old bilbo.So, sorry bloodboal but it looks like it was just a skillfully done edit. (though the original scene might have been slightly shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Also, there are some notes missing, in the Erebor theme, in MDF, on the OST it goes: AC-AD-AE CBAB, but in the film, after CBAB there are four extra notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 I don't get why microedits made for the OST weren't undone for the SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 And the first disc was only 58 minutes! they had the room! (though I have to say, most of the stuff microedited out were not too important, for example The World Is Ahead) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 and I have theorised, that The Edge of the Wild, is the main title music for DOS, with the Company theme appearing over "The Hobbit" logo.I really don't know about that. Putting that on a soundtrack a year in advance? Can you see them changing the music which plays over the logo for the next two films? I can't. I'm pretty certain 'Edge of the Wild' was intended as an alternate for the scene where the Company leaves Rivendell, with the Company theme kicking in around the time we see that last shot of them walking across the mountains. It doesn't quite match up perfectly but it's close enough. Furthermore, 'Edge of the Wild' corresponds with what Thorin said moments before. The second half of the track I think we all agree was meant to score part of Gandalf in the High Fells. It remains to be seen if Shore will now do something else for this sequence in DoS. I imagine he might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 The Edge of The Wild clearly was intended for the Company leaving Rivendell, as Barnald and other members before him suggested.It probably was for the edit of that sequence when The Hobbit was going to be made in two films. We would have seen the Company leaving Rivendell, then some shots of their journey, then cut to Gandalf arriving at the High Fells.Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I'm not sure about the two films thing. The second AUJ trailer and first Chronicles book suggest that the High Fells sequence was still in AUJ at an extremely late stage, possibly even up to October (the trailer hit in late September). Even once the films became three I think that was intended to be part of AUJ for a good few months.Not that this makes any kind of difference really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 Yes I don't think Shore scored many finished scenes before the 2->3 film split. The High Fells scene was clearly still in AUJ until the very last minute, and "The Edge Of The Wild" is clearly the original music for the company leaving Rivendell transitioning to the High Fells scene.BTW, I predicted that Film 2 will now open with the High Fells scene here:http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22585&page=29#entry870181 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 BTW, I predicted that you will be wrong here:http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22585&page=29#entry870184With some recent info we had, I'm now convinced it will open with a flashback explaining what happened to Thrain after the battle of Azanulbizar.They really had to change that plot point as well. Why couldn't PJ leave it alone and let it play as in the novel? Every little thing is blown out of proportion and made into a mystery and an obstacle in the films. It really begs the question where did Gandalf find the key and the map, which was glossed over in the first movie quick enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 This thread being bumped reminds me of how much cleanup I have to do to the main post.... oi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I can't even look at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I have still about 7 tracks from the SE album to go before I can finish my analysis/review of the album. I am currently at the ending half of Brass Buttons. I should hurry so I can get it up before Doug gets his book out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Yes I don't think Shore scored many finished scenes before the 2->3 film split. The High Fells scene was clearly still in AUJ until the very last minute, and "The Edge Of The Wild" is clearly the original music for the company leaving Rivendell transitioning to the High Fells scene.Yup. The subtle quotation of the Witch-King's theme at e end of the cue definitely confirms that the music underscored the High Fells scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 It's a theory i started having after looking more closely to the score. It seems Shore wrote a bunch of cues with an empty spot, then recorded various versions of the Company's theme, later for Jackson to choose between each of them for every scene. Why do I think that? Well, first, there is the whole Brass Buttons thing I just mentioned which is kind of weird. Then, there is the Roast Mutton track, which has the exact same music before and after the Company's theme statement. Yes, I know, it could be just an alternate, BUT, let's face it, the Special edition version of Roast Mutton just sounds weird. The beginning of the Company's theme statement doesn't mesh well with what comes before it, same for the end of it. It just sounds weird! Listen at 2'24 and dare tell me that it all flows flawlessy!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzrhzjl3FpEsort of like "Master Meriadoc, Swordthain"? I mean the film version sounds nasty after listening to the rarities version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Or maybe it was meant to underscore a scene with Azog. After all, if they can stick the Ringwraiths theme to him, why not use the Witch-King's theme as well? At this point, it would make perfect sense...At this point nothing makes sense anymore. But yeah I am with KK on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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