Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I don't know if it was worth to start a whole new thread for this, but recently someone told me I seem to have a fondness for the F key whenever I'm improvising on the piano, so it got me thinking about film composers and their preferred keys. Any of the composers around here have a favorite among them? Hansy at the POTC period of his work seemed to be really into the D key (apologies for the unintended joke), Michael Land from the Monkey Island series seems to really dig E minor and I really wonder if Williams has a particular favorite. If it's a stupid subject, we'll just ignore it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,914 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I tend to gravitate to certain keys but I think this is more out of habit. One thing I did once was try to write in a different key and mode over a period of time where the intent was to avoid my common keys. So day one might be in E minor, day two, F major, etc. Then day 20 would be dorian, day 21 phrygian, etc. It didn't have to be a massive piece but a self contained statement that centers on that key of the day. Very helpful exercise because it results in chord borrowing which is a common trait of JW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Zimmer et al.'s D minor fetish in Pirates came to mind immediately. Can't think of anything else, really - Williams doesn't seem to favor any keys in particular, except perhaps in his big iconic marches, where keys like Bb, C, F, and Eb seem to dominate a bit, as you'd expect. You still find modulations to plenty of other keys, though, and his actual film scores rarely spend too much time in any one particular key. I don't do much composing these days, but obviously some keys are a little easier than others at the piano, and I probably favor those a bit when I'm improvising or arranging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I'm pretty sure I abuse E and all its modes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 4 hours ago, Michael said: Hansy at the POTC period of his work seemed to be really into the D key Also in Gladiator. The main theme is in D minor, the "Patricide" cue starts in D minor and ends on the D major chord (although it modulates a lot in between), the second part of "The might of Rome" (when the scene is actually in Rome) starts in D major. Morricone seems to be also quite fond of D. Most of the score of "The Mission" is in D major (with some pieces in close keys like B minor and G major), as well as several main themes from "The Legend of the Pianist on the Ocean", the first part of the main theme of "Once Upon a Time in the West", the cue "Abolisson" from Queimada (which he often plays in concert), the main theme of "Casualties of War", the main theme from "Il Deserto dei Tartari"... and many others. And the main themes of several of his Westerns are in D minor. In the case of John Williams, as Datameister was saying, he doesn't seem to favour any particular key. Maybe it would be interesting to study whether he associates certain keys with certain specific "moods" or situations, but I don't have specific ideas in this respect. It seems to me that he just uses almost all keys freely, trying to vary as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,914 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yes, I think JW's use of keys is dramatically inspired. For example Luke's theme is in the "heroic" key of B-flat major where the Imperial March is in that keys relative minor of G minor. So he probably looks for musical variety and dramatic context. He isn't limiting himself to a specific key, but using the key to help support the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 1 hour ago, karelm said: Yes, I think JW's use of keys is dramatically inspired. For example Luke's theme is in the "heroic" key of B-flat major where the Imperial March is in that keys relative minor of G minor. So he probably looks for musical variety and dramatic context. He isn't limiting himself to a specific key, but using the key to help support the story. Yes, but you are referring to the concert arrangements, although they also coincide with the first appearances in the respective movies (but, to be precise, the Imperial March appears in the initial cue of ESB, shortly after the opening crawl, played by the piccolo in B minor). Throughout the scores, the themes appear in many different keys. For example, in the "Chasm Crossfire" cue, Luke's theme is played in G major, and it is definitely heroic as well. The Imperial March appears many times also in C minor and B minor, for example, and in F minor at the peak of the cue which scores Han Solo's carbon freezing. Not to mention the Force theme, which probably appears in all the keys throughout the saga. The question is: can we find a rationale beyond certain choices in specific moments of the movies? To be honest, I have always thought that the instances of the Imperial March in G minor (including the first "big" appearance and the concert arrangement) are mostly motivated by the fact that G is an open string in violins, violas and cellos, which provides a particular sound quality to the rhythmic accompainment at the beginning. Similarly, B flat is a good key for trumpets and brass in general, hence the big blast of the main theme. So, in these cases I think it is more a performance-oriented choice (which of course is very relevant for the sound that is obtained, which is more "natural"). I am wondering if the choices done in the less "in-the-face" cues are due to specific expressive reasons related to the keys, or related to the instruments. Probably, a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 My favorite key is B flat major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 John Barry loved his F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,914 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Score said: Yes, but you are referring to the concert arrangements, although they also coincide with the first appearances in the respective movies (but, to be precise, the Imperial March appears in the initial cue of ESB, shortly after the opening crawl, played by the piccolo in B minor). Throughout the scores, the themes appear in many different keys. For example, in the "Chasm Crossfire" cue, Luke's theme is played in G major, and it is definitely heroic as well. The Imperial March appears many times also in C minor and B minor, for example, and in F minor at the peak of the cue which scores Han Solo's carbon freezing. Not to mention the Force theme, which probably appears in all the keys throughout the saga. The question is: can we find a rationale beyond certain choices in specific moments of the movies? To be honest, I have always thought that the instances of the Imperial March in G minor (including the first "big" appearance and the concert arrangement) are mostly motivated by the fact that G is an open string in violins, violas and cellos, which provides a particular sound quality to the rhythmic accompainment at the beginning. Similarly, B flat is a good key for trumpets and brass in general, hence the big blast of the main theme. So, in these cases I think it is more a performance-oriented choice (which of course is very relevant for the sound that is obtained, which is more "natural"). I am wondering if the choices done in the less "in-the-face" cues are due to specific expressive reasons related to the keys, or related to the instruments. Probably, a bit of both. I don't follow you. How do you know the "ideal" version of the imperial march is the one not in the film and JW adapted it to fit various scenes? I am responding to "the" version of the piece which composers usually write and then adapt to the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 5 hours ago, karelm said: I don't follow you. How do you know the "ideal" version of the imperial march is the one not in the film and JW adapted it to fit various scenes? I am responding to "the" version of the piece which composers usually write and then adapt to the scenes. I did not say this. The first time the Imperial March appears in full power in the movie, it is in G minor. The concert arrangement is in G minor. When it appears in the End Credits suite, it is in G minor. I think we agree that this is the "natural" key in which the march was conceived. In my opinion, the reason is mostly instrumental, and not that the key of G minor represents something particular. This is what I meant. The question is: what about the other instances, when it appears in different keys? Were those keys chosen case by case for expressive reasons related to some meanings that Williams associates to the individual keys (some composers did that - Beethoven once said that B minor is a "black key"), or based on instrumental issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,914 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Score said: I did not say this. The first time the Imperial March appears in full power in the movie, it is in G minor. The concert arrangement is in G minor. When it appears in the End Credits suite, it is in G minor. I think we agree that this is the "natural" key in which the march was conceived. In my opinion, the reason is mostly instrumental, and not that the key of G minor represents something particular. This is what I meant. The question is: what about the other instances, when it appears in different keys? Were those keys chosen case by case for expressive reasons related to some meanings that Williams associates to the individual keys (some composers did that - Beethoven once said that B minor is a "black key"), or based on instrumental issues? There would be many reasons why a composer might choose a key for a theme depending on what is happening on screen, how much they want to give away or keep from the audience, what the point of view is of the scene, what came before, what comes next, etc. For example in the famous Pyscho shower scene, we see the murderer slowly approach but there is no music until Vivien Leigh sees it in horror. So the music there takes the point of view of Vivien. Had the same scene been scored from Norman's point of view, we would get some strange 12 tone psycho music or something. So the composer decides with the director for any scene, what is the point of view and what is the subtext. Is the scene dragging too much or does it feel rushed? All these points influence the musical decisions and the better the composer the more virtuosity and tools they have at their disposal to accomplish what the story needs at that moment. With JW, you have someone at full command of these elements able to borrow and incorporate different methods to get the most effective result. I don't think he is locked to any of these decisions, they are just tools at his disposal. I think having the villian and hero musically linked in some way allows the music to add another touch in telling the story. That doesn't mean for every scene, he'll stay in that key...maybe another scene has a different need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 E minor for a good bit, but lately I've been veering a lot towards F#. it can be a dangerous thing, getting fixated on a key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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