Michael Kamen's X-MEN (2000) - 2021 2-CD Expanded Original Soundtrack from La-La Land Records

[thestat 352]

Curious - is there any evidence of the supposedly more 'orchestral' score Kamen did for this? The whole thing is obviously very un-Kamen, reserved, synthetic. I have no interest in getting the LLR release since I never made it through K-MANs first album. But is there something to appreciate? Or does it remain a terrible mismanagement example? Jesus, if they let MK free to score this, what would that be like!

[Faleel 5,384]

2 hours ago, thestat said:

Curious - is there any evidence of the supposedly more 'orchestral' score Kamen did for this?

IIRC Jon Broxton (?) said Kamen played some demos for him at one point, and it kind of sounded superman-like

[HunterTech 994]

Pretty much. The story goes that once it came time for Kamen to record the score, Lauren Shuler Donner was completely dissatisfied with what he had written, and demanded that he redo the whole thing with a more muted and techno-y sound palette. Many revisions and a supposedly unhappy Kamen later, this was the score we got.

 

It was always a strange story to me, since it gives the impression that Michael had no idea what the actual tone of the movie was going in. Almost like he assumed it was going to be exactly like the 90s cartoon and started from there. But given the production hell the first movie went through (surprise surprise, the sexual deviant director also sucks in other ways), I wouldn't be shocked if Fox had shown Kamen the Whedon draft of the script before that got 99% thrown out.

[Andy 4,162]

I gave it a listen, and sadly, I won't be purchasing.  It's not for me.  Kamen deserves better.  It's a shame, because the Logan/Rogue theme is lovely.  It's the only music I recall from the film.  It has some shared colors with the Mary Jane love theme from Elfman's Spider-Man, the melancholy we-should-but-can't-be-together sort of theme.

 

But I would never listen to the full thing again.

[HunterTech 994]

And there are more variants of that theme on the expansion! Not nearly enough as there should be, but that's only because Rogue's own motif is pretty much an incomplete version of it, so it's purposefully held back until key moments.

 

I had completely forgotten that the OST leaves out some of my personal key favorite highlights that strengthen the narrative of the score. But at the same time, they're not gonna be anything that sounds substantially different. Maybe even worse in a few spots, since the original album jettisons some of the electronics in areas.

 

I did forget to post this when I made it, but I did make a crack at restoring a rejected cue for a scene in the movie. I did go the lazy route and just kept the center channel, so you do hear a tiny bit of the tracked cue the final film uses, but it should work okay:

 

 

 

[Faleel 5,384]

@Andy: "I listened to the expansion, and it wasn't for me, Logan/Rogue theme is nice though"

 

@HunterTech: "The expansion has more of the Logan/Rogue theme!"

 

[HunterTech 994]

Referring to it as "the full thing" is the only indicator that he listened to the expansion, since I have seen people refer to the Logan and Rogue theme as such based off only the OST. Even if it's just because it's definitely the cue that makes the strongest impression in-film.

[Andy 4,162]

I listened to the first presentation of the score and skipped around the alternates, enough to know it isn’t the motivic, well orchestrated Kamen I enjoy. 

[crocodile 8,033]

It's very chaotic and unfocused, true. But not without its pleasures. The opening, featuring the brooding Magneto theme, is among my favourite cues ever.

 

Fortunately for any casual listeners, the LLL album features the film construct of the finale/end credits that contains all the best material in one neatly flowing suite. For the sheer majority, this is all you need.

 

Karol

[HunterTech 994]

After re-listening to it yesterday, I find it's only in the Train cue where the tone gets derailed by the techno intrusions, since anything else approaching that territory is pretty much only in the alts (though Ambush probably gets close). And the funny thing is that the filmmakers actually seem to agree, because those elements are toned down in the actual film mix!

 

But yes, the end credits suite is an incredibly effective edit, even if it's maybe too reliant on the climax cues for it to not feel too redundant to include in a playlist. I do wonder who on team the assembled it, since it definitely features unique bits that aren't in the rest of the score.

[Andy 4,162]

On 20/4/2024 at 2:51 PM, crocodile said:

Fortunately for any casual listeners, the LLL album features the film construct of the finale/end credits that contains all the best material in one neatly flowing suite. For the sheer majority, this is all you need.

 

Okay, so I keep coming back to this score, because the End Credits are so damn cool! And they’re not on the OST, so if you want ‘em, you gotta get the LLL. 
 

Fine,but…

 

On 20/4/2024 at 3:37 PM, HunterTech said:

But yes, the end credits suite is an incredibly effective edit, even if it's maybe too reliant on the climax cues for it to not feel too redundant to include in a playlist. I do wonder who on team the assembled it, since it definitely features unique bits that aren't in the rest of the score.

 

The End Credits don’t represent the score!!!  I keep scanning through the score, wishing and hoping to find the same driving textures and motifs, but they aren’t there.  X-Jet has the motif, but it’s buried under synth. 
 

I clearly don’t know the history of this like many of you. Is it possible this suite was assembled from an early rejected score that Kamen recorded? Or demos?

 

This is maddeningly frustrating. 

[HunterTech 994]

It literally consists of six score tracks that are glued together by a lot of thrown in synths, several of which are also taken from previous tracks. I should've been more specific when I said "unique bits," since I'm referring to a particular section of string work around 2:13-2:19 that I can't really point to as being from an existing cue. It really makes my unfinished theory have more of a basis, since some of this material had to come from something that existed at one point in production. And yet there's nothing on the Kamen website that suggests anything was specifically prepped for the credits like the tracked version of Inside the Statue, so I'm not sure what's up there.

[Faleel 5,384]

38 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

It literally consists of six score tracks that are glued together by a lot of thrown in synths, several of which are also taken from previous tracks. I should've been more specific when I said "unique bits," since I'm referring to a particular section of string work around 2:13-2:19 that I can't really point to as being from an existing cue. It really makes my unfinished theory have more of a basis, since some of this material had to come from something that existed at one point in production. And yet there's nothing on the Kamen website that suggests anything was specifically prepped for the credits like the tracked version of Inside the Statue, so I'm not sure what's up there.

Could it just have been taken from a sample/stock library like Best Service Orchestral Colours or something?

[Andy 4,162]

This theme (which I agree with the YT comments, sounds like an adapted version of the 90s animated theme) is dominated by that wonderful driving ostinato, like Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.  Starts at 1:42 and appears again at 10:23. 

 

 

 

 

But I think it’s great, and it certainly qualifies for a darker style Superman type theme as rumors suggest for Kamen’s early ideas.  I don’t have the disc, but I’ve heard the liner notes aren’t too helpful either. 

 

This may be a dumb question, because grant you, I only listened to the first disc and skimmed the second, but does this ostinato and theme appear elsewhere in the score? Again, my lack of familiarity may have caused me to miss it. 

 

[HunterTech 994]

13 hours ago, Faleel said:

Could it just have been taken from a sample/stock library like Best Service Orchestral Colours or something?

It's too close to the "main" hero theme for it to be sourced from something else. Plus, they did have access to a 48 track unmixed master that they only used as a reference, so I would think it comes from something in there.

 

13 hours ago, Andy said:

This theme (which I agree with the YT comments, sounds like an adapted version of the 90s animated theme) is dominated by that wonderful driving ostinato, like Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.  Starts at 1:42 and appears again at 10:23.

 

But I think it’s great, and it certainly qualifies for a darker style Superman type theme as rumors suggest for Kamen’s early ideas.  I don’t have the disc, but I’ve heard the liner notes aren’t too helpful either. 

 

This may be a dumb question, because grant you, I only listened to the first disc and skimmed the second, but does this ostinato and theme appear elsewhere in the score? Again, my lack of familiarity may have caused me to miss it.

 

Both those instances are taken from an unused track that was supposed to play when Logan steals Scott's motorbike, which you can hear at the start of Logan And Rogue In Train on the LLL release. So while that exact arrangement wouldn't exist elsewhere (so I don't be expecting the ostinato), the theme does exist throughout. The most prominent instances besides X-Jet being Ambush and Museum Fight, partially a spot in Final Showdown, alongside more low-key renditions in School Montage (both versions), Logan Kills Mystique, and Jean And Logan. Probably more spots too in less obvious areas, since the themes of this score tends to sneak around like that.

The funny thing is that the LKM version sounds an awful lot like a variant of the responsibility theme that we would get two years later in the Raimi Spider-Man scores. I figure it has to be one of the ideas that Kamen repurposed from his original demos.