2 Empire Strikes Back questions

[Jay 37,372]

OK gang, question:

In the track "Clash of Lightsabers" ("The Duel" on previous releases), is the music that plays from about 2:30-2:36 supposed to be the Rebel Fanfare? It sounds like it to me, just slower than its usually played. However, I'm not musically-savvy at all, so I was hoping someone could help me out.

Also, Boba Fett's theme supposedly plays somewhere in "Departure of Boba Fett", but my ears don't notice it anywhere. Anybody ever notice it in there before?

Thanks!

[Guest]

To answer your questions: no, it's just good.

[King Mark 3,631]

OK gang, question:

In the track "Clash of Lightsabers" ("The Duel" on previous releases), is the music that plays from about 2:30-2:36 supposed to be the Rebel Fanfare?  It sounds like it to me, just slower than its usually played.  However, I'm not musically-savvy at all, so I was hoping someone could help me out.

!

I don't think so.

In ESB the Rebel Fanfare appears at:

Battle of Hoth 3.15

Betrayal at Bespin 1.13 and 1.25

End Credits

I don't recall hearing it anywhere else

K.M.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

In the track "Clash of Lightsabers" ("The Duel" on previous releases), is the music that plays from about 2:30-2:36 supposed to be the Rebel Fanfare?  It sounds like it to me, just slower than its usually played.  However, I'm not musically-savvy at all, so I was hoping someone could help me out.

No.

Also, Boba Fett's theme supposedly plays somewhere in "Departure of Boba Fett", but my ears don't notice it anywhere.  Anybody ever notice it in there before?

Can't find it either.

[Henry B 50]

In ESB the Rebel Fanfare appears at:  

Battle of Hoth 3.15  

Betrayal at Bespin 1.13 and 1.25  

End Credits  

I don't recall hearing it anywhere else

"The Battle of Hoth" - 10:45-10:52

[Nemesis 245]

In the track "Clash of Lightsabers" ("The Duel" on previous releases), is the music that plays from about 2:30-2:36 supposed to be the Rebel Fanfare?  It sounds like it to me, just slower than its usually played.  However, I'm not musically-savvy at all, so I was hoping someone could help me out.

I would also say No.

But a good composer uses his material in diffrent ways, so that it sounds like something else. In "Clash of Lightsabers" it's just perfect!

Nemesis

[Jay 37,372]

OK, turns out that Fett's theme is not only supposedly in "Departure of Boba Fett", but also in "Carbon Freeze" and "Luke Pursues the Captives" (aka "Darth Vader's Trap") as well.

Here's what Lukas Kendall wrote in the liner notes of the 4cd box set (bolding is mine):

This lengthly suite covers the latter Cloud City scenes in Empire, including some music not used in the finished film.  We begin with more traveling Luke music as the young Jedi approaches Cloud City in his X-wing, but Vader's theme soon appears as Han, Leia, and Chewie (carrying Threepio) are marched into Cloud City's carbon freezing chamber.  Han is to be encased in a block of carbonite, to test if the process is okay for Vader to use on Luke.  Chewie flips out, accompanied by a brief musical outburst, but is quickly shackled.  Han and Leia's theme surges as they are pulled apart; Vader's theme takes over as Han is frozen.  Frotunately, Han survives the process, and is given to Boba Fett who will deliver him to Jabba the Hutt; Fett's theme is heard as these and other arrangements are made.  

"Luke Pursues the Captives" follows as Luke and Artoo spot Fett's entourage walking down Cloud City corridors with frozen Han; Fett's theme is here expanded into creepy, dissonant chords.  Fett spots Luke, and we are treated to an action version of Yoda's theme as they exchange blaster fire.  Luke races down the corridor and sees Imperials bringing the captive Leia and Chewie into the carbon freezing chamber.  Despite Leia's warning cries, he follows, and a closing door cuts him off from Artoo.  Music not used in the film follows, a return of the ominous, dissonant chords heard earlier as Vader and LUke begin to do battle.

"Departure of Boba Fett", a track on the original Empire album slightly expanded here, returns returns us to music used in the film.  Fett's theme is heard as Lando's guards appear and capture the Imperials.  Lando releases Leia and Chewie, but Chewie's newly-freed hands go straight for Lando's throat.  Struggling for air, Lando says there still might be a chance to save Han - he's being brought to Fett's ship nearby.  The pace picks up as the Rebels, now joined by Artoo, rush to the East Platform, but it's too late - Fett's ship, Slave I, is just taking off.  The rest of the track contains more music not used in the film, meant to underscore Luke's battle with Vader in the carbon freezing chamber.  Vader's theme is heard as Luke loses his lightsaber and is backed into the freezing pit, but Yoda's theme emerges triumphant as Luke leaps out of the pit, and battles Vader off the edge of the chamber.  Next will come "The Duel" (disc two, track 17)"

I guess he's talking about the motif that appears in all 3 pieces (I had just referred to it as just the "escape from Bespin motif")... so, what do you guys think? Is Lukas right? Is it Fett's theme? Matessino's notes for the track on the 2CD SE soundtrack don't mention Fett's theme at all, he just refers to the motif as "rhythmic phrases"

On the 2CD SE soundtrack, listen to 4:16-4:59, 5:26-5:33, 8:11-8:40 of CD2, track 9 to hear the motif I'm talking about.

[Adam 1]

I think he misidentifies all of them, based on the times you listed. Boba Fett's theme has a brief, specific musical effect. I can sort of hear a resemblance but, given the context that its used and the differences in the music, I wouldn't call it Boba Fett's theme.

I wouldn't even call that musical material a theme. Its sort of a unifying underlying progression, very basic, that links the sequence. If anything, its kind of like the basic Imperial March chord progression stripped of its melody.

- Adam

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Yeah, what Adam said. Boba Fett's theme is what you hear at the beginning of Attacking a Star Destroyer, and somewhere in Betrayal At Bespin (when Fett walks into the dining room).

[King Mark 3,631]

Whay about the processionnal music heard at 7.35 to 8.12 in Carbon freeze/Darth Vader's Trap/Departure of Boba Fett.Is that a theme of sort?

It's repeated a few times

K.M.

[Jay 37,372]

Yeah, what Adam said. Boba Fett's theme is what you hear at the beginning of Attacking a Star Destroyer, and somewhere in Betrayal At Bespin (when Fett walks into the dining room).

I know what it sounds like normally (It also plays in "City in the Clouds"), I was just trying to figure out why Lukas said it also played the the carbon freeze sequence...

[Adam 1]

Whay about the processionnal music heard at 7.35 to 8.12 in Carbon freeze/Darth Vader's Trap/Departure of Boba Fett.Is that a theme of sort?

It's repeated a few times

K.M.

Its kind of a semantic thing, depends on how you want to define theme. I don't really think of it as a theme, although it comes closer to qualifying than the other examples. It could be a processional theme but its also supposed to be used over the confrontation with Vader and Luke (taken out of the movie). I sort of think of it as one of many examples where Williams introduces a melodic idea for a specific sequence. Its existance is specific to the requirements of a particular scene, not necessarily a larger idea or character in the movie. But, again, one could call it a theme of sorts, looking at the issue a little differently.

- Adam

[Jeshopk 8]

The little bassoon staccatto motif associated with the threat of the bounty hunters (or boba fett depending on your view) only happens when we first see the bounty hunters, when we see boba pursuing the falcon, and when finally our heroes are captured with boba present. That is the development of the theme.

Later, during the Carbon Freeze scene, we hear a little march with a similar tone when Lando is talking to Darth and Boba. This then transforms to the procession of the heroes down the hallway.

It is easy why one would also associate this music with boba, but it is probably not really a development of the initial motif. There is a shared interval (I down to VII), but the second one has no repeated staccato notes and has another note at the end going up (to III). Instead of the staccato notes, there is a half-step trill. The bassoon is not so prominent in the theme, as it is played by lower strings.

It is surely possible that this motif did grow out of the boba motif, but I doubt even Williams remembers his intentions on this.

There is a nice correlation between the two motifs that is set up by the appearance of Boba. Perhaps that some people think they are the same theme is a testament to the power of expectation that Williams sets up with his music.