Lewya

There are hardly any distinguished film scores written today - usually only a few a year these days. I find myself hardly listening to any new scores, I'd much rather go back in time to listen to distinguished scores written by North, Takemitsu etc or even check out an obscure Morricone score I haven't heard before. Desplat, Giacchino, Silvestri are pretty mediocre talents, especially Giacchino. Even Williams doesn't write that many distinguished scores - especially not after '05 - and he usually doesn't go that far beyond a imaginative re-treading of romanticism. A.I. and Close Encounters remain his two best scores. Outside of Williams and Morricone, Thomas Newman and Elliot Goldenthal are pretty much the only film composers I can think of that make the grade. After them... maybe Howard Shore. I just miss a guy like North, Herrmann or Goldsmith for example on the scene. In addition to that, I also miss a great classical concert composer writing film music, even if it only happens occasionally. Dmitri Shostakovich's, Ralph Vaughan Williams's best film music for instance certainly ranks among the best film music ever written. Corigliano, Dun, Glass etc are all interesting, but I don't find the vast majority of the results of their film work to measure up to what other classical composers have written in the past at their best. I also don't find any of them to be great composers, very good yes, but not great. I don't think there is a thing as a great living composer, for me Brian Eno might come the closest - he might be my personal favourite living composer with Newman. Takemitsu would certainly qualify as a great composer, had he been alive. Reich, Glass etc I more respect than enjoy, I only find myself returning to a few select pieces by them. Seeing that Goldenthal is semi-retired from film music - my biggest hope going forward is on Newman. But I don't consider Newman as exciting as Goldenthal can be even if he is a pretty original and inventive talent, this despite the fact that I prefer Newman's music in general. Newman has also yet to live up to his '90s glory.

Yes, basically - and the ones you consider great that you may not consider top favourites. Only the three I listed first are favourites - the rest I acknowledge as great film scores, but I don't love (at least not as a whole).

I only love two Williams scores - A.I. Artificial Intelligence and Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Ok, maybe three - the Star Wars saga, counted as one body of work. That's it for me - three scores. Jurassic Park, Seven Years in Tibet, Nixon, Images etc are all great, but I can't say I love them as a whole to the degree as I do with the top 3 I mentioned above. I would easily put all three of the Williams's scores that I love in the top 25 film scores of all time and at least one of them in my top 10 of all time. I certainly do not consider Williams the best film composer of all time (he is not even the greatest living film composer - that honor goes to Thomas Newman), but I do believe that he has written as many great scores as anyone else in film history. I think he has written around 15-25 great scores (closer to 15 if we count some franchises as one entry), the rest of the best may be very good or good, but not great. I can not think of any other film composer who has written more than 15-25 great film scores. Here are all of the 25 film scores that he has written that I would consider great film scores or fairly close to that: A.I. Artificial Intelligence Close Encounters of the Third Kind Nixon Images Jurassic Park All three of the original Indy scores All of the eight Star Wars scores - especially the original trilogy, The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith Seven Years in Tibet Born on the Fourth of July The Witches of Eastwick The Long Goodbye Catch Me If You Can Memoirs of a Geisha Jaws Schindler's List E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial The last five scores or so on the list are somewhat reluctantly included, they are on the edge for me of being "just" very good. They are not any favourites of mine even if they all contain some brilliant writing. I think Williams, Goldsmith and Takemitsu may be the ones who have the most great film scores to their name. Possibly North, Morricone and Herrmann too. The difference is that while I don't think any other film composer have written more great film scores than Williams, some of them were clearly better composers in almost all areas than him. His greatest strength may be his gift as a melodist and perhaps his versatility. What do you say?

Schindler's List and it isn't even close. Neither of them are top 20 Williams though. The Book Thief is pretty good, but it is a surprsingly bland Williams's score.

You mean what kind of concert pieces? Well, I'd say Goldenthal's Symphony In G# Minor is very good. Not great, but very good. In terms of Williams's own concert works, i'd say that the violin concerto qualifies as "very good" - that one is one of the few that he has written that qualifies as that. Not great though, just very good. Like most of Williams concert works, I found this to be dull and not very compelling/involving. The best part of it was probably the finale.

Meh, another disappointing work. It wasn't bad, but not very good either. Goldenthal's best concert music is more compelling as far as living film composers in the concert hall goes.

Did anyone record the entire thing? Upload to YouTube if so please.

Where do you listen to it online?

I just saw his post, thanks anyway.

Nvm.

What timezone is it? 7 PM.

Interview with the harpist who will preform the piece tomorrow: http://www.wamc.org/post/harpist-jessica-zhou-premiere-new-john-williams-andris-nelsons-yo-yo-ma-and-tmc-orchestra

You are allowed to mention two honorable mentions if you want. My top 3: James Cameron (Avatar sequels) Peter Jackson (anything) Martin Scorsese (anything) 2 honorable mentions for a top 5 would be: Christopher Nolan (anything) Terrence Malick (anything) Which three directors would you most like to see Williams compose a score for?

I say none - none of his concert works are great in my book. Some of them are good yes, but not great. They have some things that stick out positively sometimes, mostly about orchestration. They certainly pale compared to what the best contemporary concert composers are writing at their best. The biggest problem is probably that I don't find them interesting to begin with, so who cares if it is wonderfully orchestrated when it is pretty dull and uninteresting to begin with. I easily rank certain solo albums by other film composers way higher than Williams's concert work. In some ways, I wish Williams didn't write most of his concert works - it makes me look at him less kindly as a composer taken as a whole. Quite a few of them are why did you bother dull. If forced to pick something I would probably say violin concerto and the piano suite Conversations, especially movement three. That is one of my least favourite. It is basically just warmed-over Arutiunian which is dreadful to begin with.

Sakamoto has said that this is the best film music track that he had ever done: My favourite stretch: 7.17-7.57

Any idea what Dudamel says in his remarks, any Spanish speaker here who can translate?

Totally agree with him being mostly mediocre. With that said, he is better than most, especially today. He could be good at his best though. I also agree - The Land Before Time I have a soft spot for even if I don't listen to it often at all. Maybe my pick for his finest score.

Agreed, Titanic is a very good movie, a must-see (not a masterpiece though), 3 out of 4 stars. But the score is mostly just poor and banal - ersatz pretty much everything. I would single out Titanic as a career low for Horner, not a high. 1995 and the duo of Braveheart and Apollo 13 was on the other hand indeed a high. Titanic is one of his weaker scores, Braveheart is one of his best, so the choice is easy. I might add that I pretty much never listen to either score, especially not Titanic - the same can be said about all other Horner music too, I am not a big fan of him at all even if he could be good.

They probably forgot to include "not" in the article yes.

The Force Awakens for me. Not sure which one I would put after that. Maybe Lincoln. A.I. was the best of the 2000s (followed by Memoirs of a Geisha and Revenge of the Sith as the top 3 of the 00s). I am not that fond of any of his 2010s scores, The Force Awakens is the best of the lot, but I prefer all of the top 3 scores of the 2000s over it, especially A.I. of course.

The Pulitzer Prize winning composer Ned Rorem weights in on Williams and it is negative - this was back in 1987, mind you: Interview: Certain film composers enjoy a very wide audience: for example, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams Rorem: Goldsmith is inventive and evocative and personal. But there's nothing John Williams has written that Richard Strauss has written better. Now that Strauss' copyright has expired, John Williams has cribbed verbatim the tone poems of Strauss who, during his lifetime, was one of the highest paid composers who ever lived. Yet Williams is said to have made a billion [sic] dollars from his uncredited riflings. Interviewer: One also hears criticism that Williams steals far too much from Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold as well. Rorem: All art is in a sense taking from what has already existed and making it your own, but Williams doesn't make it his own — he makes it lesser Strauss. There's hardly any distinguished movie music being written today because 9 out of 10 movies use amorphous rock scores, or no scores at all, or simply a meaningless oleo of bathos, like Marvin Hamlisch.

3.5 stars sounds about right. It is good, maybe even very good, but hardly great. I don't really listen to it. Especially Close Encounters, but also Star Wars from the same year are vastly superior. Maybe I would like it more if I had seen the film, who knows - but after a few listens it falls somewhere among the middle of Williams output. Not top 30 of all time material for him.

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Maybe a pretty generic comment, but Wes Anderson called Williams a great composer a few months ago, I think it is the first time I have ever heard Anderson comment on Williams: "Alexandre has that in common with great composers like John Williams that he is able to write a music of film that can be whistled, a music that finally lives independently of the film. He enjoys composing, but he also has that innate sense of orchestration. He began as a jazz musician and this is reflected in his compositions."

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