The Themes of Howard Shore's The Hobbit

[MedigoScan 324]

Is it just me ore does that unreleased cue in DOS when Bilbo is falling into the Forest River, sound like the music in Brass Buttons right before the Ring theme?

I dont remember it sounding like that myself

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[alfa 0]

Very interesting work, i was just wondering about one thing : why is the LEGOLAS theme called a Tauriel theme ?

It is obvious on screen that this theme is synchronized with legolas appearences... ?

DOS 1-07 4:53-5:08 DOS 1-10 1:38-1:44

DOS 2-09 0:17-0:24

DOS 2-11 5:00-5:14 DOS 2-15 3:52-4:26 DOS 2-15 4:50-5:22

[MedigoScan 324]

the Forest River moment yes

all those other moments dont have Legolas on screen, or he shares screentime with Tauriel

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Very interesting work, i was just wondering about one thing : why is the LEGOLAS theme called a Tauriel theme ?

Because Howard Shore says so.

[Doug Adams 494]

Doug told you the opening of My Dear Frodo wasnt based on House Of Durin initially, you didnt call him a liar.

Why do you assume I call him that?

At this point i'm not convinced. Is it required that I am? Mr. Adams is a GREAT resource for info, and a swell guy for sharing as much as he does. But that doesnt mean I'm not allowed my own opinion and interpretation. It is music afterall, not maths.

Also, isnt Doug a big boy? Does he need people to stand up for him?

Labeled "bard and family" and dated April 22 of 2013. It's 20 measures long and lasts 59.22 seconds. Tempo is M.M. = 80. Functionally written in the key of F major, though without a key signature.

[Jay 37,364]

Yes. There is a theme for Bard's family Stefan, accept it!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jason, is Augie's Great Municipal Band a variation on The Emperor's Theme?

Many refuse to believe if because John Williams has never said it was. Ken Wannberg has, but not JW.

[Faleel 5,348]

Sigh...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[Jay 37,364]

Comparing Bard's Family/Bilbo's to Mirkwood/Smaug to Emperor's/Augie's is comparing apples to oranges to bananas.

The nine seconds of music in Thrice Welcome is Bard's Family Theme. Deal with it! You are now coming across like a spoiled child whining to his parents.

The facts are black and white!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Comparing Bard's Family/Bilbo's to Mirkwood/Smaug to Emperor's/Augie's is comparing apples to oranges to bananas.

How so?

[Faleel 5,348]

The facts are black and white!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The nine seconds of music in Thrice Welcome is Bard's Family Theme. Deal with it! You are now coming across like a spoiled child whining to his parents.

The facts are black and white!

I have seen no evidence of this fact. Maybe the next film will confirm this. And then I'll gladly admit it.

I'm just surprised about the amount of resistance on gets when they don't tug the line and join in on the worship of Doug Adams.

Christmas With The Cranks all over again

[Faleel 5,348]

I'm just surprised about the amount of resistance on gets when they don't tug the line and join in on the worship of Doug Adams.

But if it turns out to be true....than you resisted the truth....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Also, if what Doug states is true, and that fragment really is part of a theme that went otherwise unused. was it's similarity to one of Bilbo's Themes not noticed by Shore or his orchestrator? And if so, why wasn't it altered or removed?

The whole point about the leifmotif approach is that one can identify characters/situations etc according to their assigned thematic material.

I'm just surprised about the amount of resistance on gets when they don't tug the line and join in on the worship of Doug Adams.

But if it turns out to be true....than you resisted the truth....

Is it wrong to question something before embracing it?

[Faleel 5,348]

Also, if what Doug states is true, and that fragment really is part of a theme that went otherwise unused. was it's similarity to one of Bilbo's Themes not noticed by Shore or his orchestrator?

Perhaps it was a case of repurposing a theme that was discarded?

Also, perhaps the reason it sounds similar is because Bards family and Bilbo are tied together?

Or Shore was lazy?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Perhaps it was a case of repurposing a theme that was discarded?

Possible, but since it was used a little bit in the first film, thats a bit confusing. Like Nature's Reclamation in LOTR I guess

[Faleel 5,348]

Or Shore figured Bilbo's theme and The Arkenstone theme sounded close enough anyway. he figured another theme that sounds similar wouldn't hurt

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Also, perhaps the reason it sounds similar is because Bards family and Bilbo are tied together?

Nothing in the current version of the film supports this

Or Shore was lazy?

Don't say that! Jason might get upset.

[Faleel 5,348]

Also, perhaps the reason it sounds similar is because Bards family and Bilbo are tied together?

Nothing in the current version of the film supports this

And its not in the film, is it?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Therefore, unconfirmed IMO.

[Faleel 5,348]

Unless we see a picture of Shore with the sketch in crystal clear clarity!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And I again want to repeat to Doug (and Jason, who seems to be very protective of his buddy) that I am in no way trying to insult you or call you a liar.

[Faleel 5,348]

Whats the difference between saying that he is a liar, and saying that what he is saying is not true?

or am I not understanding your position?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

One might say something that is not true because he was told something himself that is not true, passing on a lie rather then lying yourself, or misinterpreted the facts, or misunderstood the question, etc etc....

One is a liar if one bends the truth on purpose.

If I thought Doug was a liar I would have told him so. It's not my custom here to be subtle.

[Faleel 5,348]

WHOA!

Now you are calling Shore, Pope, Jackson or Bill "the sandwich making guy" a liar!

Now things just got serious!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If you like to put words in my mouth, sure.

[Faleel 5,348]

I do

Open wide and say "ah"

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I listened to the score with my family yesterday. It was a hit! The younglings were particularly fond of The Forest River and Inside Information. I shed a tear of proud joy when the word "gamelan" was used.

The favorite theme seems to be Laketown.

[alfa 0]

Very interesting work, i was just wondering about one thing : why is the LEGOLAS theme called a Tauriel theme ?

It is obvious on screen that this theme is synchronized with legolas appearences... ?

DOS 1-07 4:53-5:08

DOS 1-10 1:38-1:44

DOS 2-09 0:17-0:24

DOS 2-11 5:00-5:14

DOS 2-15 3:52-4:26

DOS 2-15 4:50-5:22

the Forest River moment yes

all those other moments dont have Legolas on screen, or he shares screentime with Tauriel

that is not true. He is either alone on screen or with Tauriel. Never Tauriel alone ; it should then be Legolas theme obviously.

[Faleel 5,348]

Or ATLEAST Legolas/Tauriel.

[Jay 37,364]

Alfa, did you purchase the Special Edition soundtrack on physical disc? If so, you will see in Doug's liner notes that it is most certainly Tauriel's Theme. In Shore's own handwriting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think what he is talking about is how that theme is applied to another character in this film.

I'm still surprised 5:00-5:14 Heroics of Legolas in The Hunters plays for a scene with Tauriel kicking ass.

Also the "Silence Of The Lambs" part of Tauriels theme is also played during the reveal of the Elven King.

[Jay 37,364]

I think what he is talking about is how that theme is applied to another character in this film.

I'm still surprised 5:00-5:14 Heroics of Legolas in The Hunters plays for a scene with Tauriel kicking ass.

Well it wouldn't surprise me if when Shore scored that scene, Legolas was doing stuff there, but then the film got edited afterwards and now Tauriel is doing stuff there.

Also the "Silence Of The Lambs" part of Tauriels theme is also played during the reveal of the Elven King.

Isn't that the B section of the Woodland Realm theme?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

DOS 1-06 7:51-8:05 is Tauriels Theme right? a redition of that theme plays during the slow reveal of Tranduil. Noticed that on my second viewing. DOS 1-07 0:56-0:58

[alfa 0]

Alfa, did you purchase the Special Edition soundtrack on physical disc? If so, you will see in Doug's liner notes that it is most certainly Tauriel's Theme. In Shore's own handwriting.

yes but i can't find any note on this 2nd heroic theme we are talking about (DOS 1-07 4:53-5:08 etc).

You called it a 2nd theme for Tauriel but i couldn't found your source (sorry i need help on this)...

[Jay 37,364]

Oh, OK, interesting! I will have to investigate and see if this theme only plays when Legolas is around! I had originally listed that theme as its own theme (not knowing what to call it before seeing the film, I just called it Tauriel's Second Theme. Then recently I just merged it into Tauriel's Theme and called it the B section). Maybe it does have a more specific purpose....

[Faleel 5,348]

I think its either its for Legolas, or for Legolas/Tauriel.

(BTW I have always said it was for Legolas)

[MedigoScan 324]

Very interesting work, i was just wondering about one thing : why is the LEGOLAS theme called a Tauriel theme ?

It is obvious on screen that this theme is synchronized with legolas appearences... ?

DOS 1-07 4:53-5:08

DOS 1-10 1:38-1:44

DOS 2-09 0:17-0:24

DOS 2-11 5:00-5:14

DOS 2-15 3:52-4:26

DOS 2-15 4:50-5:22

the Forest River moment yes

all those other moments dont have Legolas on screen, or he shares screentime with Tauriel

that is not true. He is either alone on screen or with Tauriel. Never Tauriel alone ; it should then be Legolas theme obviously.

I disagree, by the time that music plays in 'Kings Foil' Legolas was already gone

and I dont think he even appears anywhere in Thranduil and Tauriels scene

plus you cant really cite 'Beyond the Forest' as evidence of anything, what with it being an end credits theme

[Faleel 5,348]

and I dont think he even appears anywhere in Thranduil and Tauriels scene

But they do talk about Legolas though probably not synced with that music....

[MedigoScan 324]

at that exact moment?

thats a thing I cant precisely recall of course

[Jay 37,364]

DOS 1-06 7:51-8:05 is Tauriels Theme right? a redition of that theme plays during the slow reveal of Tranduil. Noticed that on my second viewing. DOS 1-07 0:56-0:58

DOS 1-06 7:51-8:05 is Tauriel's Theme, yes.

However, DOS 1-07 0:56-1:05 is the B Section of The Woodland Realm theme, not Tauriel's theme. They are very similar, I know....

Anyways, that reminds me I need to go through the list and point out where the B Section of The Woodland Realm Theme plays, since I don't point that out in the list currently.

~

OK, I've added the Mirkwood Theme to Flies and Spiders 2:18-2:28, and notated the 4 spots in the score that the B Section of The Woodland Realm appears.

Anything else in the main post people think should be changed?

[alfa 0]

maybe it has already been dealt with, but any ideas why the Company's Adventure Theme (Misty Mountains) was not used in DOS ?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nothing but speculation at this point

DOS 1-06 7:51-8:05 is Tauriels Theme right? a redition of that theme plays during the slow reveal of Tranduil. Noticed that on my second viewing. DOS 1-07 0:56-0:58

DOS 1-06 7:51-8:05 is Tauriel's Theme, yes.

However, DOS 1-07 0:56-1:05 is the B Section of The Woodland Realm theme, not Tauriel's theme. They are very similar, I know....

Grrrr!!!!!

That's the third time!!!!

[Jay 37,364]

maybe it has already been dealt with, but any ideas why the Company's Adventure Theme (Misty Mountains) was not used in DOS ?

The Misty Mountains theme is notated as The Company's Main theme in the main post here; The Company's Adventure Theme is a different melody (very similar to Bilbo's Adventure Theme)

As for why all three of the Company's themes were dropped from DOS, neither Howard Shore nor PJ have publicly commented on the decision that I'm aware of.

However, Doug Adams was on the most Recent track sounds podcast, and posited that since the company was now over the Misty Mountains, and their journey was getting darker and they were getting closer to Erebor, it made sense to stop using that theme and begin to use the House of Durin theme.

I personally think the theme should have been used for the he spider battle and river chase before being replaced with the Durin theme once they get to Lake-town.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,348]

I personally think the theme should have been used for the he spider battle.

Nah, that would be like using the fellowship theme in Shelob the Great (aside from the statement as Sam's appears of course)

[Jay 37,364]

No, it wouldn't be like that. Just a quick statement, perhaps when they rip the legs off that one side, woulda been fine.

It also could have been used as Bilbo frees them from prison and they get in the Barrels.

[Faleel 5,348]

But thats Bilbo's moment.....

I t would be like using the Shire theme for the Main Title instead of one of Bilbo's themes