Datameister

Damn. Definitely didn't realize the deluxe edition existed. I bought the standard. Looks like I'm going to be buying the remaining tracks on Qobuz! I haven't had any issues with the flow so far though.

Ok, I'm way late to the party, but I finally bought Across the Stars. Giving it a first listen right now. I LOVE IT. The arrangements feel truly inspired—like, the furthest thing from phoned in. The mutual artistic admiration between JW and ASM comes through viscerally in the writing and performance.

Film: 5 Had none of the flaws I was expecting. Brought a whole bunch of new and unnecessary ones. Score: 7 By Williams standards, it's a 4 or 5. By the standards of modern film scoring, it's an 11. Album: 8 Really solid presentation that focuses on the new music and flows super well.

Conjecture? Joke? Or has this been confirmed? Regardless, how would dying in the past cause him to have never existed?

It wouldn't shock me at all if that were true. Earlier parts of the film work so hard to depict him as a man left behind by the passage of time. Until the final scene—after the punch—he really doesn't have much to hold him in the present. Leaving him in the past would have also lent itself better to the emphatic "THIS IS THE LAST MOVIE" marketing. It wouldn't have made up for the film's fundamental flaw of turning Indy's story into a tragedy, but it might have worked better than what we got. Especially if we got more of a sense throughout the film that Indy's love of history was the only thing that could still really light his fire. Maybe then we could have ended with, like, a Grecian urn in a museum that depicted a wizened adventurer with a hat and whip. Something to indicate he'd had further untold adventures in history. Probably would have been cheesy as hell. But it might have worked.

I know nothing about these scores or this composer, but I'll offer my completely uneducated opinion anyway: I would be shocked if all those musicians were ever in the same room at the same. Sounds like a case of multiple recording sessions with different sets of musicians.

I've never understood the age concern. It didn't bother me with KOTCS and it didn't bother me with DoD. I admit I was surprised at Karen Allen's appearance in DoD. Kind of odd that they gave her a wig.

Ah, I see what you're saying. Regardless of whether it's cool in the story, the title isn't doing the film any favors. I get where you're coming from on that. Granted, I think all five films have kinda silly names.

Disagree. I was shocked to realize they'd come up with a cool MacGuffin that even could have supported some really interesting themes about the passage of time.

Yeah, at this point, there'd been one Indiana Jones film in the last 34 years, and it had been the target of a lot of derision. Beyond that, DoD had other factors stacked against it: No Spielberg/Lucas involvement People who took issue with Harrison's age in KOTCS had 15 years' more fuel The 8-year lag after the film's development was made publicly official The baggage of the SW ST's decidedly mixed reception Movie theaters aren't exactly bustling post-covid Marketing was so-so And of course, ultimately, the film just never really justifies its own existence. KOTCS, for all its flaws, gave us a relatively lighthearted glimpse at Indy's life as an older man and closed out with a happy ending. DoD plays like a weirdly sad epilogue that wipes out that happy ending, only giving back a bit of it in the last few minutes.

With situations like this, I like to see the film first. So I went and saw the film within a couple days of its release. Before long, I decided I wanted to buy the album. That was when I discovered the CD had only been available on that site, and the page had evaporated without even an "out of stock/print" message. I wasn't crestfallen, but I was surprised and pretty disappointed. Bought on Qobuz instead. Obviously the music is identical to what I would have gotten from the CD, but I would have liked to have had the nice packaging, the liner notes, and the completeness on my shelf. Now I won't buy it on CD until they release an expanded version in 30 years, just in time for nostalgia to bring CDs back from extinction.

It sucks to know that even if I do get a chance to buy the CD now, I won't. With no guarantee of it ever coming back in stock, I purchased on Qobuz. I really like the album, and I wanted it on CD, but not enough to justify the cost of buying the same music all over again.

I'm no fan of this digital-only approach, but in all fairness, CD doesn't have a sound quality advantage over lossless downloads. I went with Qobuz for exactly that reason. But yeah, I still miss the packaging and the notes. Feels like something is missing from my shelf.

Okay, you do have a point about getting to hear the TLC material recorded by Shawn Murphy. But the other scores are also quoted liberally in the film, and there the advantage disappears.

My track-by-track reactions as I finally listen to the OST for the first time, after seeing the film once and otherwise having no exposure to the music: Prologue to Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny: Really strong opening to the album. Truly feels like a overture, in a good way. Love how it hits so many themes. Starts us off on the right foot with no quotes of old material. Helena's Theme: Not as catchy as some of JW's more tuneful writing in past decades, but beautiful and interesting. And something you won't get to hear from any other working film composers. Germany, 1944: Aaaaaand there go the verbatim quotes of previous scores. Boo. What a relief to mostly return to new material for the second half. That being said, in the film and on album, I do really like the choice to end this sequence with the unused tag from the end of Raiders' credits. To Morocco: Nice choice in terms of album flow. Voller Returns: I dig the unsettling underscore and bits of villain and MacGuffin themes. Again, great choice in terms of album sequencing. Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique: Our first bit of outright comedic material on the album. I thought the KOTCS OST brought this in too early with "The Snake Pit." This works much better. Then I get annoyed with the Tintin lifts in the last half, as I did in the film. But it's brilliant writing, and with time, I'm sure I'll grow to like it on its own terms. Tuk Tuk in Tangers: It is a miracle that this nonagenarian can still mickey mouse his way through an action sequence in a way that sounds so fresh, exciting, and musically satisfying. It's obviously Williams music, but it doesn't feel redundant with his previous scores. Bravo. To Athens: I remembered the traveling music feels more authentically Indiana Jones than the visuals onscreen. So nice to hear it on album - great unique statements of Helena's and Indy's themes. Another strong track. Perils of the Deep: Pretty subdued "breather" track. The reharmonization of Marion's theme at the end is interesting. Water Ballet: Love the creepy stuff. And again, NOT at all redundant with the series' previous creepy music. The creative use of piano, percussion, and even organ is Polybius Cipher: Similar to material we've already heard on the album. Kind of a curious inclusion. The Graphikos: My attention wandered a bit. But not bad. I continue to enjoy the dissonant misterioso keyboard figures. The buildup toward the end is cool. Archimedes' Tomb: Nice to hear the return of some of the thematic material for the titular dial. Or for Archimedes himself? I can't recall. The Airport: I like the urgent, serious interpolations of the themes for Helana and the villains. Gearing up for the climax of the film and album! Battle of Syracuse: More unique action writing, befitting the Grecian setting. Love it. Great climax to the action of the film. Centuries Join Hands: Not much to say, other than I like it! New York, 1969: A less than satisfying conclusion to the main part of the album. I could have done without the masterful but overly familiar KOTC setting of Marion's theme. The end of the film proper is a disappointment, and it's no better on album, sadly. I'm glad the credits version of the Raiders March at least closes things out. Helena's Theme (For Violin and Orchestra): The theme is so well-suited to solo violin, and to Mutter's playing specifically. A great contribution to these two artists' fruitful collaboration, and a joy in terms of pure music, regardless of whether it fits the character. Overall notes: There's something that feels a little different about the quality of the recording itself, compared to other recent Williams recordings in LA. I think I like it. It's surprising that we get so much "close" sound from spot mics on the piano, celeste, and harp ... and still more surprising that I enjoy it. Normally I prefer a wetter, more distant sound. The celeste is also very much not the Potter sound, which is a nice change from, say, KOTCS or Tintin. Still hate that I couldn't buy this on CD, especially because ... ... I enjoyed the album way more than I expected! It really de-emphasizes the verbatim or near-verbatim quotes of old material, favoring stuff that not only is new, but feels new. Again, it's incredible that a man in his 90s can still bring music into being without it all feeling like a rehash. Frankly, it did feel like a rehash in the film to me, due to all the quotes. Not here. What a sublime surprise. I'm really looking forward to giving this another listen. (And many more afterward!) Is it on the level of Raiders or TOD? Of course not. But when it focuses on doing something new, rather than retreading the brilliance of the past, it becomes a truly worthy addition to the Williams canon.

60 to 70% of which we've already been hearing for at least a few decades. Sorry. Just not fond of the COS/Home Alone 2/DOD approach that relies so heavily on existing material. TLJ has some of that too. At JW's age, he's earned the chance to take this approach now, but I can't enjoy it the way I enjoy a score that makes minimal use of stuff he's already written.

From 2015 onward, the only stuff I know well is Star Wars stuff. But I can at least give you my top 2: Rey's theme Galaxy's Edge Third place is probably a tie between Poe's theme and March of the Resistance.

Buy it... if you are prepared to be impressed by John Williams' ability to maintain his high standards of adventure and romanticism in this rousing conclusion to a nostalgic franchise. Avoid it... on the album if you expect a satisfying presentation of the music heard in the film, Williams emphasizing suite arrangements that don't always reflect the personality of the score itself.

"Casually murdering people" is a rope bridge too far. Numerous rope bridges, really. The folks he kills are trying pretty hard to kill him first, typically.

I got the impression he didn't bump on it because she didn't start going by Mary till after they'd parted ways. He never knew her as a Mary—certainly not Mary Williams. And besides … "there were a lot of Marys, kid." But the rest of your points stand, absolutely.

I mean, it's available in CD quality from Qobuz, but I'd still rather buy this one on actual CD.

Okay, I'm looking at finally buying the album - I wanted to wait till I'd seen the film, but seeing the film deflated my interest in the album. Now that it's reinflated somewhat, I'm looking, and ... it's digital-only? With a CD release only available for preorder on a DisneyMusicEmporium.com page that currently looks like this?

Hedwig's Theme was so titled before JW had seen any of the film. The original short version was written based on his impressions of the first book and it was expanded into a few versions for the trailers. Then he used it where it felt right in the actual film score and arranged a full-length credits version based on the trailer cues. That version made it onto the OST with the Hedwig's Theme name.

Very fair points. I did appreciate those aspects. @Chen G. Yeah, it's a pattern I never really thought about until it was suddenly broken. I guess counterexamples could include the sacrifice victim in TOD and … yeah, that's all I can think of. And that one doesn't have the element of surprise, since it's literally a whole scene building up to his demise. I guess Donovan does keep sending innocents to their death until Indy is forced to figure out what a penitent man does. But still. Unrelated: It's interesting how many people use words like "cartoony" to describe deaths in the previous films. I suppose I understand the sentiment in some of the fight scenes, but I also think of Sapito, Belloq, Toht, Dietrich, the aforementioned sacrifice victim, Mola Ram, and Donovan. These are pretty grisly deaths. And then there are all the gross-out moments with corpses of the already-dead: Forestal, the Well of Souls mummies, the flayed human skins fluttering in the Pankot breeze, Francisco de Orellana—hardly the stuff of cartoons.

@TolkienSS I didn't have a problem with the grossness of showing Voller's body, but it did stand out as the only time in the franchise we see the main villain's mangled corpse just lying there. Normally that stuff is swept away by supernatural powers. I was actually disappointed that Voller's death wasn't more gruesome, or at least more interesting. In the past, all the main villains have been taken out supernaturally. And Raiders and TLC gave theirs truly grotesque deaths. Voller just gets a plane crash. I was all ready for him to get rapidly deaged by the Antikythera! Like Donovan, but in reverse. Imagine him shriveling into a screaming fetus and beyond, eventually popping right out of existence, out of time itself! Sorry if I seem sadistic. I'm a pacifist, but when it comes to Indiana Jones, I want to see the boss baddie suffer.