Retitled: (back from the symphony) JW in the classroom.

[Morn 8]

Well, Herrmann is more likely to be played than Williams, who is more of a pop icon.

[Magnus 0]

Herrmann or anyone for that matter with any connection to filmmusic is hardly ever played over here Doesn't matter how many names you bring up

[Morn 8]

Film music isn't played that much here either, maybe once every 1 to 2 years. Err

[Magnus 0]

Well... we had a Nino Rota Ballet suite played here last year I think, I think it was some filmmusic in it... and... they played a crappy orchestrated version of Bladerunner once, YET! There's been no Williams for years

[Morn 8]

They played Star Wars this year.

[Magnus 0]

Did they have a conductor with the "SW" feeling then? I remember once that conductor Hannu Lintu did Star Wars Main Title with the Radio Orchestra (the one I'm always on about) and he did the part right after the solo-piccolo in slow-mo... geez, what was the man thinking?

[Marian Schedenig 8,261]

They played the ESB suite in Vienna earlier this year. It was almost as good as Williams' own recordings.

Marian - who wants them to do more of that kind.

Bond Back in Action (John Birthday Barry)

[mlletsycho 0]

your class makes me think of this game my little brother pete and i play whenever we get a few moments together. Pete's in the third grade too, and he's the only other one in my house actually appreciates the music I listen to. This kid's amazing! Anyway, my collection of film music isn't huge yet, but we have fun with what I have. I'll play something, and he'll tell me which movie it's from and sometimes even the part of the movie it is. u should see his face when he figures it out! anyway, just thought i'd share.

Cathy

[Magnus 0]

That's cute

I think I'll teach my kids (if any) to learn all cues and all, they'll become freaks like me

[Morn 8]

Did they have a conductor with the "SW" feeling then? I remember once that conductor Hannu Lintu did Star Wars Main Title with the Radio Orchestra (the one I'm always on about) and he did the part right after the solo-piccolo in slow-mo... geez, what was the man thinking?

Ohh, they were pretty good, but not great. The orchestra did a great job, it was slightly weak conducting though. It was one of the most applaused pieces.

[Magnus 0]

It always is, still they hardly ever play it... It's something wrong with our society

[charlesk 0]

About conductors playing Williams, I think there are several reasons why you don't see this too much:

1.- Why they should if there are already high quality recordings done by the composer? In several years, after Williams dies and other new recording technologies appear, we may see more conductors doing their versions.

2.- Very few conductors played works from other composers when the composers were alive and directing themselves. How many conductors played Mahler, Beethoven and Mozart when they were alive and conducting themselves?

3.- Williams have three different styles: the orchestral suite or march, which is a 'pop' version of themes from a movie, and maybe they are too pop for a concert (but composers like Tchaikovski, Rossini also have 'pop' versions of longer works), the original soundtracks, which are far more complex, difficult to play and not so easy to listen to as a Mahler (because they are closely related to an action, and requires IMAGINATION), and the concert pieces which are only going to be understood in 20 years.

4.- A large percentage of the audience that goes to a concert is, unfortunately, people that go because that makes them appear cultivated, so they only go when they play a work from an historically renown composer. People who go to concerts for truly appretiation of music, these people that know so well the work that could stand at any part of the performance and take the baton and continue conducting from memory, guys like the some of the ones that participate in this forum, these are minority, these would go and listen a concert of the whole soundtrack of Star Wars, with the same concentration they listen to Wagner.

Williams soundtracks are musically complex, technically demanding, richly instrumented, and makes use of 600 years of musical history by incorporating counter-point, leitmotiv, atonality, irregular rithms, etc. and have nothing to be ashamed of compared with other "classical" works. If Williams have lived 200 years ago, he would be a fantastic symphonist and opera and ballet composer, just as Wagner would do music for movies if he lived in this century.

[Magnus 0]

3.- Williams have three different styles: the orchestral suite or march, which is a 'pop' version of themes from a movie, and maybe they are too pop for a concert (but composers like Tchaikovski, Rossini also have 'pop' versions of longer works), the original soundtracks, which are far more complex, difficult to play and not so easy to listen to as a Mahler (because they are closely related to an action, and requires IMAGINATION), and the concert pieces which are only going to be understood in 20 years.

No, wait... are you saying that Mahler is easy to listen to? His symphonies never ends Even though they're great works, but I'd hardly say easy to listen to... Leroy Anderson made pieces that are easy to listen to.

But hey, I'm only a swede and misunderstands half of everything

4.- A large percentage of the audience that goes to a concert is, unfortunately, people that go because that makes them appear cultivated, so they only go when they play a work from an historically renown composer. People who go to concerts for truly appretiation of music, these people that know so well the work that could stand at any part of the performance and take the baton and continue conducting from memory, guys like the some of the ones that participate in this forum, these are minority, these would go and listen a concert of the whole soundtrack of Star Wars, with the same concentration they listen to Wagner.

It's sad... a prejudice we could do without... I don't feel that cultivated, rather the opposite and classical + jazz is the only I listen to.

[Ren 76]

my goodness,

look where my thread has gone.

[Magnus 0]

Just like most other conversations?

[Morn 8]

Williams soundtracks are musically complex, technically demanding, richly instrumented, and makes use of 600 years of musical history by incorporating counter-point, leitmotiv, atonality, irregular rithms, etc. and have nothing to be ashamed of compared with other "classical" works. If Williams have lived 200 years ago, he would be a fantastic symphonist and opera and ballet composer, just as Wagner would do music for movies if he lived in this century.

With one exception, Williams didn't add to musical history in the sense of inventing new techniques.

[charlesk 0]

With one exception, Williams didn't add to musical history in the sense of inventing new techniques.

I tend to disagree, Morn. I've read scores from Shostakovitch, Wagner, Bruckner, Mozart, Beethoven, Ravel, Hosts, Stravinsky, and none of them have the rich instrumentation, complexity and wide use and fusion of all styles, like Williams does.

If not 'inventing' something new, which few composers really do, Williams makes use of all techniques at the same time, and has evolved the use of the orchestra to a higher level, never seen before in works of the aforementioned composers. He could just have copied Tchaikosky or Wagner, but he didn't, he pushed it to a higher level, hence he 'added' something.

For instance, Mozart did not create anything new, in terms of musical style. The 'classical' styles were already defined and common at that time. All musical forms used by Mozart responded to this classical technique for doing concerts, symphonies, sonatas, operas, etc. What he did is evolving this style so high that nobody else could do it better, both in terms of beauty and virtuosity. Should we not listen to Mozart because he didn't invented any new revolutionary techniques?

I'm just glad that thanks to Williams, some of us have discovered Humankind's legacy of music.

[Romão 2,276]

[

I'm just glad that thanks to Williams, some of us have discovered Humankind's legacy of music.

[Romão 2,276]

[

I'm just glad that thanks to Williams, some of us have discovered Humankind's legacy of music.

Well, that is most certainly true in my case.

Romao, who is very fond of Wagner and Rossini.

[Morn 8]

I tend to disagree, Morn. I've read scores from Shostakovitch, Wagner, Bruckner, Mozart, Beethoven, Ravel, Hosts, Stravinsky, and none of them have the rich instrumentation, complexity and wide use and fusion of all styles, like Williams does.

I don't think Williams was the first film composer to do this. For example Goldsmith or North etc. Film music forces a composer to be diverse.

If not 'inventing' something new, which few composers really do, Williams makes use of all techniques at the same time, and has evolved the use of the orchestra to a higher level, never seen before in works of the aforementioned composers. He could just have copied Tchaikosky or Wagner, but he didn't, he pushed it to a higher level, hence he 'added' something.

Yes, what Williams has done is impressive, but I'm not really sure if I'd call it unique. It's reasonable to say he's done it better than others though.

For instance, Mozart did not create anything new, in terms of musical style. The 'classical' styles were already defined and common at that time. All musical forms used by Mozart responded to this classical technique for doing concerts, symphonies, sonatas, operas, etc. What he did is evolving this style so high that nobody else could do it better, both in terms of beauty and virtuosity. Should we not listen to Mozart because he didn't invented any new revolutionary techniques?

Hehe, this is the main reason that I tend to think he's objectively overrated. Most of the reasons for putting him so high seem to be subjective reasons or observations of his super human ablities like writing a concerto at age 4. And I would argue too that although he was the best in his era, others could match what he did at their own best, I don't consider him light years above everyone else during his time.

I think the true towering giants objectively were Bach, Beethoven, Mahler and Stravinsky.

I'm just glad that thanks to Williams, some of us have discovered Humankind's legacy of music.

That's something I have him to thank for.

[tpigeon 3]

here's my take...

now my musical knowledge probably isn't quite as extensives as many of yours,' so i may not be a very trustworthy source regarding stuff like this. i will say that i have heard my fair share of classical throughout my life, and it never moved me very much.

but there's something about John Williams' music that i almost immediately connected to, and i really don't know what. i can barely read notes, since i regretfully gave up on music a long time ago, so i base just about all of my opinions on how a particular piece strikes me or moves me.

Williams' music in my naive opinion, is completely unique and nothing short of magical. for me, not much music can consistently send chills down my spine and move me more than Williams' music. maybe i haven't listened to enough music, but i am workign on that. Williams pretty much re-introduced me to music, and re-lit my passion for it. like i said, i'm not scholar, but i now know all that i do about music, orchestra, and instruments solely because of John Williams. call me crazy, but i find myself listening to his music for hours each day.

a lot of people don't understand my passion for music now, especially John's music. heck, sometimes i don't even understand it. as i said in my Reivers post, there is something different about most great pieces by Williams, but i cannot identify it. there is something about pieces like "You Are The Pan" and "The Dark Side Beckons" that taps almost right into my soul. i'm not gonna get technical here, especially since i have such a limited knowledge of orchestral music in general, but i will say that i think John Williams' music is completel amazing, unmatched by anyone in my opinion.

i credit John Williams for my re-discovery of the wonder of music and my realization of how much it means to me in my life. his music has always been an integral element in my life, and to be quite honest, it always will.

Ted

[Ren 76]

wow, everyone has gotten so deep into this.

not like my third graders.

remember their quotes from last year?

[Guest]

wow, everyone has gotten so deep into this.

not like my third graders.

remember their quotes from last year?

Hey Ren, do you wear glasses? I think you do, sometimes. In fact I think you wear opticals shaped very much like Mr. Potter wears.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

here's my take...

now my musical knowledge probably isn't quite as extensives as many of yours,' so i may not be a very trustworthy source regarding stuff like this. i will say that i have heard my fair share of classical throughout my life, and it never moved me very much.

but there's something about John Williams' music that i almost immediately connected to, and i really don't know what. i can barely read notes, since i regretfully gave up on music a long time ago, so i base just about all of my opinions on how a particular piece strikes me or moves me.  

Williams' music in my naive opinion, is completely unique and nothing short of magical. for me, not much music can consistently send chills down my spine and move me more than Williams' music. maybe i haven't listened to enough music, but i am workign on that. Williams pretty much re-introduced me to music, and re-lit my passion for it. like i said, i'm not scholar, but i now know all that i do about music, orchestra, and instruments solely because of John Williams. call me crazy, but i find myself listening to his music for hours each day.

a lot of people don't understand my passion for music now, especially John's music. heck, sometimes i don't even understand it. as i said in my Reivers post, there is something different about most great pieces by Williams, but i cannot identify it. there is something about pieces like "You Are The Pan" and "The Dark Side Beckons" that taps almost right into my soul. i'm not gonna get technical here, especially since i have such a limited knowledge of orchestral music in general, but i will say that i think John Williams' music is completel amazing, unmatched by anyone in my opinion.

i credit John Williams for my re-discovery of the wonder of music and my realization of how much it means to me in my life. his music has always been an integral element in my life, and to be quite honest, it always will.  

Ted

I completely understand where you're coming from, Ted. I feel exactly the same way. It's nice to hear this put into emotional terms as a change from technical terms.

Ray Barnsbury-almost getting veclemped again . . .

[tpigeon 3]

thanks Ray!

Ted, who is he has someone to agree with

[charlesk 0]

Ted,

I was moved by your emotional post. Never feel diminished by not having musical education. Scholars and critics may deconstruct music, analyze it ad nauseum and put fancy names to every new original technique. So they say "this is classical, this is baroque, this is dodecaphonic, this is neo classical, this is modernist" and bla bla bla.

Artists just use their skills and talent to compose from their hearts, to other people's hearts. If you have a sensitive heart, that's all it takes.

Studying music is just useful for a more intellectual and deeper understanding of it, but the emotional understanding is still a matter of the heart. If you like music and it is so important for you, I recommend you to continue exploring it, listening, reading about the composers and their works, there is SO much music out there... a lifetime of wonders to discover.

CharlesK - who also own his love for music to Williams.

[tpigeon 3]

thanks for your words, Charlesk. that post i made, i don't know where it came from. i just started writing and that's what happened. i'm glad you understood. same with you, Ray. thanks!

Ted, getting veclemped

[Guest]

Ted,

I was moved by your emotional post.

No you weren't, you are just trying to portray yourself as a 'sensitive man' to impress Ren, and yourself.

Artists just use their skills and talent to compose from their hearts, to other people's hearts. If you have a sensitive heart, that's all it takes.

Hardly. It takes a lot more than that.

[tpigeon 3]

i hope you don't psychoanalyze me, AI. you're quite unrelenting at times.

Ted

[charlesk 0]

Do you know me AI? Do you know how important is music for me? Please, refrain from refuting what you can't possibly know. That post was completely unnecessary, and I feel sorry to have to respond with this one.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Ted,

I was moved by your emotional post.

No you weren't, you are just trying to portray yourself as a 'sensitive man' to impress Ren, and yourself.

Artists just use their skills and talent to compose from their hearts, to other people's hearts. If you have a sensitive heart, that's all it takes.

Hardly. It takes a lot more than that.

Ray Barnsbury-amused by such idiocy

[Morn 8]

He's right a little, it needs talent too. But more, effort.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I was referring more to the first part.

Ray Barnsbury

[Ren 76]

yes i wear glasses sometimes and no they aren't circle lenses.

[Guest]

But they are still as cute as can be though right? As cute as a button, maybe even cuter.

Yep, you push those glasses up to your head from time to time, so harry-esque.

[Ren 76]

[Guest]

AI's comments are mean and with the most recent post, more than a little strange. The glasses comments indicates that AI is the one trying to suck up to Ren.

- APS

[Guest]

AI's comments are mean and with the most recent post, more than a little strange.  The glasses comments indicates that AI is the one trying to suck up to Ren.  

- APS

APS? who the hell is aps?!

Sucking up to Ren? I don't think so, I'm married thankyou very much genius boy.

[Ren 76]

my thread has the littlest amount to do with the topic while still being on topic.

I'll have more on Tuesday because that's the concert!

[Guest]

AI,

If I had known you were married I would have never said you were sucking up to Ren since married people never suck up to other people. My apologies. I'm sure you had a much better reason for your goofy comment.

APS are the initials of my name. I'm one of the many people who isn't registered and read these posts for occasional enlightenment or, most recently, for bizarre insight into how someone tries to create sexual chemitry on a message board while at the same time insulting the more thoughtful contribution of others.

- APS (Genious Boy)

[Ren 76]

Well tomorrow' is the concert. the kids are SO excited.

AND i am all done teaching Somewhere in my Mem'ry to the second grades.

now i just have to figure out how i should record myself playing the song so i can conduct and give the words too. i can't do 3 things at once, just two.

[Ren 76]

Well, yesterday was the day.

The third graders got all dressed up and we went to the symphony. Our kids were so well behaved and attentive, i was really proud. If you've seen my listening maps for the songs you'll understand what i'm saying next:

the students were whispering the 'har-ry POT-ter' part in HWW.

Their eyes were bulging out of their heads, they were just in awe of the music. It was so fun to see. There were some kids that copied the conductor's movements every once in a while. They oohed and aahed at the comments made by the conductor. it was nice all around

I felt like my kids were really prepared.

But the best part of all was that some students even came up to me and said:

"Miss McKinney, why didn't the french horn play at the beginning of Jurassic Park"......... i don't know why, it was a little weird.

AND

"Miss McKinney, why isn't John Williams here conducting??????"

Then when we got back, they made me a pie chart and bar graph of their favorite songs. Star Wars came in first, HP a close second.

Ren

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

That is so cool!!! And the kids mouthing the words you taught them . . . LOL So cute. I wish I could have gone!

Ray Barnsbury

[charlesk 0]

"Miss McKinney, why didn't the french horn play at the beginning of Jurassic Park"......... i don't know why, it was a little weird.

I would like to see the conductor's face if he heard this from a kid. LOL

[Ren 76]

It was definitely nice to see some recall!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

i hope you don't psychoanalyze me, AI. you're quite unrelenting at times.

Ted

He has no problem in critiquing me.

Its not so bad.

Joe, who learned from A.I., that I am fat, bald, old, odd, not a good writer, uneducated, slow, and dim-witted.

[Guest]

Joe, who learned from A.I., that I am fat, bald, old, odd, not a good writer, uneducated, slow, and dim-witted.

Joe, you are just prone to such chronic hyperbole aren't you.

I don't give a rat's ass if someone is bald, overweight, or old, hell John Williams is all three of those things, and I think the world of him!

What I object to is your horrible comments about the film A.I. I think you are wrong, basically. The film obviously touched you in some way, you may not know how yet, but it did.

You could try watching it again on dvd sometime, with a different perspective. A clear perspective. I think the film has a tremendous amount to say. If it creates an uncomfortable reaction in you, you are not percieving it in the way it was intended.

As to the topic, that's great Ren! Kids experience music in it's best and purest form. They may not know who wrote it or how it all works, but they react to the wonder of the combination of sounds from the mind of a genius, and John Williams is nothing less than genius.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

 

What I object to is your horrible comments about the film A.I. I think you are wrong, basically. The film obviously touched you in some way, you may not know how yet, but it did.

My comments and opinions are as valid as yours. But you're right, it did touch me..., like a pending bowel movement.

You could try watching it again on dvd sometime, with a different perspective. A clear perspective. I think the film has a tremendous amount to say. If it creates an uncomfortable reaction in you, you are not percieving it in the way it was intended.  

.

I might try watching the extras on the dvd, but I have watched the film 3 times(I think that is sufficient). Each time my opinion of this film went down. Another viewing is something I do not wish to do. Nothing is likely to change my mind that it is the least of all Spielberg's films, unless he makes something worse, which I hope is not possible.

Oh, and A.I., I didn't exaggerate those comments to such an extreme, in most cases you referred to me as those things in some form or another.

Paraphrase, perhaps, exaggerate, no.

Joe, who felt Spielberg redeemed himself somewhat with Minority Report.