Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Well it obviously helped Mr. Shore that he had a grande and brilliant fable with incredible scenery to score, that Ieven stopped for a second to think of an applicable answer. But Williams it is. Mostly because of his versatile scores.I really really like the FOTR but after that score, it is all the same with a descending tendency and too repetitive action music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 If there is one thing Williams' post 2000 action music is, it's repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Tintin's action music repetitive? Azkaban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Well alone in track Pursuit of the Falcon there is more going on than in the whole Lotr trilogy. And you never even listened Tintin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 You're just trying to annoy him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Well, its BloodBoal....kind of self-explanatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Tintin's action music repetitive? Azkaban?Tintin's action music is more linear and structured but still repetitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Shore's achillies heel is his action writing and whilst he often does an admirable job with such material in LotR, he could never hope to compete with The Master in that area, and so it could be argued that Tintin's action music is more interesting and developed in other ways outside of its linearity, such as its orchestration, harmonics and outright panache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Tintin's action music repetitive? Azkaban?Tintin's action music is more linear and structured but still repetitive.And Tintin action music isn't that different from either Harry Potter or SW Prequel action music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Shores achillies heel is his action writing.That's true, but LotR has some of the best action music of the decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 His action music in "Balin's Tomb" and "Khazad-Dûm" is very good...Actually, some moments in "Balin's Tomb" remind me a bit of Williams, especially the build up from at 3:00 to 4:05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Shores achillies heel is his action writing.That's true, but LotR has some of the best action music of the decade.Agreed. Maybe THE best. Which is both good and ultimately depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Depressing because action music doesn't get better than LotR or depressing because Shore only wrote great action material for LotR?For your sake, let's hope its the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Depressing because for me the action score of LotR (whilst veering wildly between bland and fabulous) isn't a benchmark composers should aspire to. Depressing because it highlights all too well the lack of talent on the scene this past decade.John could write the LotR action stuff in his sleep, as could Horner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Shores achillies heel is his action writing.That's true, but LotR has some of the best action music of the decade.Agreed. Maybe THE best.Which is both good and ultimately depressing.It's because Jerry and Kamen died! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Depressing because for me the action score of LotR (whilst veering wildly between bland and fabulous) isn't a benchmark composers should aspire to. Depressing because it highlights all too well the lack of talent on the scene this past decade.John could write the LotR action stuff in his sleep, as could Horner.Williams would have watered it down with random key changes and xylophone excesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 What I actually love about LOTR action music is that it doesn't sound like Williams or Goldmsith or Horner or Zimmer.Shore really did his own thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Depressing because for me the action score of LotR (whilst veering wildly between bland and fabulous) isn't a benchmark composers should aspire to. Depressing because it highlights all too well the lack of talent on the scene this past decade.John could write the LotR action stuff in his sleep, as could Horner.Williams would have watered it down with random key changes and xylophone excesses.And it still would've been more interesting than Shore's endless ascending brass syndrome.What I actually love about LOTR action music is that it doesn't sound like Williams or Goldmsith or Horner or Zimmer.Shore really did his own thingAnother way of saying that is it sounds like Howard Shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 In the most extreme cases, in my book, a boring stretch of underscore is still better than an annoying one.Shore can, maybe, be boring at times, but he is never annoying to the degree of some of Williams action music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hmm, do you have an example of Williams in annoying action mode? I'm interested in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 What I actually love about LOTR action music is that it doesn't sound like Williams or Goldmsith or Horner or Zimmer.Shore really did his own thingAnother way of saying that is it sounds like Howard Shore.Everyone has their style, and LotR is just Shore's style on steroids (including the action music). And unlike what you're comments suggest, Shore's action work in LotR is quality material. Not something Horner and Williams could write in their sleep. and I'm surprised to see that you see it that way. The LotR stuff is definitely better the same old snare-driven cues from Horner for the millionth time.Though I agree Williams is definitely a stronger action writer than Shore, LotR's action material is competent enough to rival both Horner and Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's a fascinating conversation. I'm just thinking of a cue like Flight to the Ford now, which I love, but I've always appreciated the fact that it's not something I enjoy purely due to the writing, but rather it is the performance and recording, the instrumentation and choral clarity which stands out most to me. Because the composition itself ain't all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 No stupid idiot, that's just your inability to see the grey in accepted opinion. You deal in knee jerk absolutes and your currency is black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It's a fascinating conversation. I'm just thinking of a cue like Flight to the Ford now, which I love, but I've always appreciated the fact that it's not something I enjoy purely due to the writing, but rather it is the performance and recording, the instrumentation and choral clarity which stands out most to me. Because the composition itself ain't all that.True, the atmosphere of the recording and the performance are an important part of it. Not just the writing.But those also have been crafted by Shore. In an interview Shore once said that he takes a lot of care in choosing the orchestra and the performance venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Oh absolutely. Respect where it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The orchestrations have a lot to do with it and Shore took an enormous amount of care with that and the recording. But again, I don't think the merits of the composition should be robbed of their deserved credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No stupid idiot, that's just your inability to see the grey in accepted opinion. You deal in knee jerk absolutes and your currency is black and white.You need both to get grey.The only action music I would call "boring" is the second part of the Warg attack cue.Cues like Khazad-Dûm, Parth Galen, Shieldmaiden of Rohan, The Breach Of The Deeping Wall... It's all top notchachos! (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 The LotR scores are masterpieces. I'm merely expressing minor complaints with them, spurned on by their comparisons here to Williams' mastery of action writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The thing is your comments made the action material in LotR seem mediocre, which it certainly is not. And I'd say its better than some of William's recent action output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 With LOTR the strength lies in the whole package, not just the writing. I just love the sound of these scores. It's steeped in atmosphere. Both in the recording and the performance I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,013 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I never thought of LOTR action music as anything special.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 With LOTR the strength lies in the whole package, not just the writing. I just love the sound of these scores. It's steeped in atmosphere. Both in the recording and the performance I'm sure.Agreed. It's an incredibly effective combination of various elements at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I never thought of LOTR action music as anything special.KarolIt isn't, outside of LotR. As part of these rich cinematic fables though it just works wonderfully well. Or what Steef said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 On it's own perhaps you have a point. But in context with the rest of the score... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,013 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Oh yes, I can agree with that. But I was talking about them as single pieces. There is no Asteroid Field or even Quidditch Match in here.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 True. Shoe doesn't really do set pieces like Williams or Goldsmith.Again, a different kind of score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ass, Fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The only thing I find utterly annoying in Shore's LOTR work is his ascending 'ta-dum' Ent shit - I think Lee described it as the ascending brass. But I have to give the man credit - he has MILKED that motif to the last drop and it's worked.Shore's work for LOTR is best viewed as the whole, like a Monet - when you start nit picking you see annoyingly 'off' strokes; words seem to not be spelled correctly anymore...etc etc.I don't think of ANY of his cues as 'action' cues actually. So when asking the poll question - when viewing the scores as a whole - who's done better work in the past 10 years? Shore. Hands down. I haven't heard a JW score in a long long time that I was absolutely in love with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 'ta-dum' Ent shitHmm, not sure what you mean there Ren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 looking for the cue, it's the dotted quarter eighth pattern that is underscoring the ents and the flood I believe end of Isengard Unleashed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You find that rhythm annoying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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