.

[Jay 37,368]

Just watched this and it's funny how Shore moved that one bit of score out of chronological order in order to make the music flow better on CD. I think this is further proof that the bit added to the Standard version of the track is perhaps from the deleted Marketplace scene as you mentioned.

In fact, I can picture it being for the marketplace scene in my head... Shire theme as he walks around, looking at things.... fireworks motif as Gandalf is entertaining young hobbit children with a small fireworks display..... I betcha the whole cue is longer, and we just have a fragment on the OST.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Its unreleased music from the film. There's a different choral part originally written for the scene thats in "Out of the Frying Pan".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,350]

Interesting video, not so sure about the syncing of Gandalf's theme to Radgy/Wargs, though I could be wrong...

No comment on my "ode" to your Review thread BB?

[Jay 37,368]

Wow, fantast work! I thought Warg Scouts would be damn near impossible to make, becaused I figured the film scene had been re-edited after Shore scored it, on top of the OST track being heavily edited from the full composition as well.... but you've made something that I feel could damn very well be completely spot on to what Shore scored too!

The entire video syns REALLY well, but in particular everything from about 1:07-end is just damn near perfect!

Love these sync points:

0:27 music quiets down for Gandalf sticking his head out

0:49 music halts when the company does

1:04 music halts when the company does again

1:07 Radagast's Theme as it switches back to him!

1:25 music slows down as the one orc smells the company

1:55 music sting right when Kili hits him with an arrow!

2:15 solo horn statement of warg them on that overhead shot

2:36 Lothlorien theme as Rivendell Elves ( ) save the day

2:51 Orc falls as piece climaxes!

It's great!

I dunno why you complain about the part from 1:45-2:09, it's COMPLETELY spot on!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,350]

Interesting video, not so sure about the syncing of Gandalf's theme to Radgy/Wargs, though I could be wrong...

Gandalf's theme? Where?

0:22 of Warg-Scouts, atleast it sounds like a abbreviated version of his theme....

[Jay 37,368]

That's not Gandalf's Theme

BB, I just had a thought- what if you started the music earlier in the footage, and removed that missing footage card? That might work really well! I think just because you started it where the track comes in in the final film, doesn't necessarily mean that's where Shore intended his composition to come in.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,368]

k

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,350]

Well then what is it?

I always thought the string theme throughtout the track (which incidentally always made me think of the Ringwraith theme for some reason) was the Warg theme Doug referred to in his notes, but now I am seeing indications that the theme I thought was a variation of G's theme is actually it!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,368]

BB I like that version a lot, especially with Radgy's theme playing as he emerges from the trees

[KK 3,307]

Well then what is it?

I always thought the string theme throughtout the track (which incidentally always made me think of the Ringwraith theme for some reason) was the Warg theme Doug referred to in his notes, but now I am seeing indications that the theme I thought was a variation of G's theme is actually it!

I don't think that bit you pointed out is a reference to Gandalfs theme, but the first three notes are the same (first two intervals).

What are you guys referring to exactly?

[Faleel 5,350]

0:22 of Warg-scouts.

[KK 3,307]

Oh I see what you mean. But no, that's not Gandalf's theme.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

I've got to say, I really loved Rivendell in The Hobbit. All the shots and sets were rich in colour, detailed and showed the kind of scope I can appreciate. I just thought the comedic/light-hearted nature of it all seemed...off.

Also, some of the shots suffered from the ''fuzziness'' that plagues much of the film.

[Faleel 5,350]

I noticed that the scenes of Elrond and the other Elves, riding around the Dwarves and insulting them, was basically a way of "LOTR-izing" the "Don't dip your beard in the foam father!" scenes from the book.

[Jay 37,368]

A short rest in The Hidden Valley.

 

Then The Hidden Valley will be pretty straightforward.

 

Actually, it wasn't. Well, not quite. There are actually three microedits in the film, which means there are two points where it's likely there was some footage cut.

 

The first two microedits are in the first part of the track: the microedited bits are 0'00-0'06 and 0'11-0'17. Now, obviously, when I decided to start the track just as it does in the film, the Rivendell theme started playing a bit late after the shot revealing Rivendell. What I did after that was try to sync the beginning of the Rivendell theme with the shot of Rivendell being revealed, but then, it made the music start right at the end of Warg-Scouts (when Thorin looks at the arrow that was stuck in the orc's throat) and I doubt that's where Shore intended it to start. So, the most obvious thing is that the Dwarves' journey "underground" was orginally a few seconds longer, and that's why the music was microedited in the film. Even taking that into account, I do believe that the music was supposed to start slightly sooner than it does in the film, so I made it start after Dwalin asks "I cannot see where the pathway leads. Do we follow it or not?'" and Bofur answers "We follow it, of course!".

 

Then there are a few seconds that are cut around 2'31-3'03 (that part is about 6 seconds shorter in the film. The edit is very subtle there), and I'm pretty confident that those additional seconds were meant to play during a slightly longer conversation between Gandalf and Lindir. In the film, when they arrive, Gandalf just says "Lindir", then Lindir says "We heard you had crossed into the valley" and directly after that, Gandalf tells him he needs to speak to Lord Elrond, which feels a bit abrupt. I'm sure there were one or two additional lines of dialogue before he asked him where Elrond is, and that's why there's this microedit in the music in the film. Why do I believe that? Because when I synced the beginning of the second half of the track (starting at 1'36) to the shot of the Company walking down to Rivendell (the same way it starts in the film), the music for Lindir's entrance (playing at 2'31) synced just as it does in the film, but after that, the music for Elrond's entrance was slightly out of sync, so that's why I think that.

 

 

 

Yup - you nailed it again! I think you got this completely correct, the two missing footage cards are in exactly the right spot. Good job!

[Jay 37,368]

Looking forward to Moon Runes, that should be a pretty straightforward one.

Of course, there are 2 versions of the final cue in the track, one for a shorter cut of the film than the theatrical cut, so there will be some footage to remove for that one.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Yeah. Maybe it was done in artistic taste or maybe it's simply the consequences of the overly done colour grading, but some of the shots have it and even make real, authentic, beautifully shot New Zealand vistas seem like CGI.

It's most painful in the prologue. In that case, I guess it was Jackson trying to pay homage to the original trilogy (as usual...) as the same tone was used in the LotR prologue. It's a strange colour scheme that makes the shots seem much more dated than they actually are. It works in LotR because the sequence is much darker in colour and there's less CGI (even then, the old prologue shows its age). But the Hobbit prologue looks like it was shot 10 years ago. All the costumes look so terribly prop-like and the CG looks much weaker than the other sequences.

It's basically the more CGI-heavy scenes (specifically the colourful ones) that suffer from this, like the shots of Dale and Erebor.

Am I not the only one whose noticed this, or am I going crazy?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

I need sleep.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

In any case, as you probably already know, I agree with your statement. Most of The Hobbit prologue felt kind of cheap compared to the one in LOTR. The writing, the costumes (especially in Dale. It looked pretty bland), the bad CGI (Thranduil's army...), etc...

I agree. Despite some wonderful sections it all in all is not nearly as satisfying as the Prologue of FotR. Especially Bilbo's narration felt a bit awkward in many places.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

So, you came back just to continue complaining and moaning about The Hobbit?

Nah. That was the one obligatory coming back stab at the AUJ.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,350]

I think he is saying, that it looks too much like Video Game bloom?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Bloom is the digital recreation of diffusion - traditionally achieved either by a lens (E.T., Jurassic Park), a net (Superman: The Movie) or vaseline.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Can't see how there is 'bloom' in the Hobbit, any specific shots?

[KK 3,307]

Spot on! Didn't know what to call it exactly, thanks Prometheus and Faleel.

[Faleel 5,350]

Also, Thror looks too much like one of the vikings from HTTYD or something for my taste.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,350]

OK I have no idea what this bloom thing is

Compare these:

Bloom:

No Bloom:

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

What the hell is bloomy? Quite a few things in the film are colour-graded to death, especially the Shire, if that is what you mean.

While watching the location shooting blogs again, I keep thinking how brilliant New Zealand looks, and how artificial PJ made it look with his colour tools.

FotR looked brilliant, when he only used it to slightly intensify the looks. AUJ in large parts is hopelessly overdone, more so than RotK even.

[Faleel 5,350]

What the hell is bloomy?

Diffused, the white soft glow.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Spot on! Didn't know what to call it exactly, thanks Prometheus and Faleel.

As I said before, it's proper name is diffusion.

[KK 3,307]

Thanks. And GK, you also mentioned one of my big concerns. He took fantastic shots of New Zealand and made them seem incredibly artificial with whatever colour grading or diffusion was involved. In FotR, New Zealand looked brilliant.