What's so great about A New Hope?

[Beowulf 4]

With all the talk about the Star Wars films going on, I thought I would bring up this opinion.

I want to go on the record and say that Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope is my least favorite of the Star Wars Saga (of course you must realize that while it isn't my favorite from the saga, it is still one of my favorite films of all time! ). I think this goes for the score too. Sure, it's got novelty being that it is the first film in the saga that was made, effectively setting up the rest of the films. Heck, I even respect it for all the innovations it brought to the film medium. But when compared to ESB and AOTC, I find it especially boring - an exact rehash of any number of mythical tales. Now before some of you jump onto me claiming that I am an uneducated dolt, I must say that the film-maker in me absolutely loves parts of the film - Opening sequence with the Star Destroyers, Binary Sunset, Jettison of the Pod, etc - these are all scenes that are marvelously shot. But the whole film, in general, is just boring to me in comparison to the rest of the films - especially when we find out there is a whole back story to all the characters and events.

When I analyze why I have this opinion, I think it's because of one thing: ANH isn't the first of the series that I saw. Many of you here were priveledged to be old enough to see Star Wars when it first came out in 1977 - I wasn't even born yet. I didn't get to witness the phenomenon of Star Wars as it was sweeping the world. I wasn't part of a generation that was shocked into submission with the sheer awesomeness of Star Wars, something which people hadn't seen the likes of ever before. No - I was but a speck in my parent's eyes. The nostalgia factor plays no part in my opinion of ANH - I view it in context of the rest of the series. I actually saw ROTJ first, and that's how I got hooked onto the whole Saga. ANH changed the process of film-making, and for that I would rate it as one of the top films that changed movie-making history, but as for story, I find it less exciting than the other films in the series. Heck, even the dual between Obi and Vader looks like a girly-fight when compared to the dual between Obi and Maul in TPM. And I hate to tell you folks, but there are whole legions of young kids out there that have the same feeling as I do (although they probably don't think ESB is the best of the saga, as I do).

Anyways, that's just my opinion. And while I respect the opinions of others on this board, I thought it may just be refreshing for some of you to hear another viewpoint on the subject. Afterall, i've had to put up with your guy's opinions on the prequels incessantly for awhile now, and it is only fair.

With that, I hope that you don't take this too seriously (or personally) and I set myself up for crucifixtion and say...Bring it on!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Stefancos- :roll:

[Guest]

HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE NOT SO STABLE DARTH VADER'S HELMET WHEN HE FIGHTS WITH OBIWAN!!!! OR THE SPEED UP FIGHT BECAUSE MR GUINNESS WAS TOO OLD TO MOVE FAST?????OR THE STORM TROOPER WHO HIT HIS HEAD ON THE DOOR WALKING IN THE LOCKED ROOM WITH 3PO AND R2???? OR (IN THE ORIGINAL) THE WHITE BITS AROUND THE SPACECRAFTS WHEN THEY FLY ABOUT??? HEAH??

I totally agree, but you have to put things under perceptive,

New Hope was filmed with prototype technology and nobody knew whether the film was going to work or not (Including Lucas). So they did the best they could and the rest is history.

The innovation of the Empire and darth vader, the rebels, the design was years ahead from anything else around. Also the fact that the ships were used and dirty in other words not being Star Trek clean and shiny helped to identify the SW worlds with our world. Even the grey colour was the same as the naval warships' making things even more familiar.

As I said as an innovation it was unbelievable but to me the New Hope was the perfect platform for great follow-ups such as The Empire strikes back (what a leap of everything from design to music) Return and Attack

When it comes down to music I think the score is great. After all it started everything about SW. The force theme The main titles/It's got great moments. The sound is not good but other than that it's fantastic. Again it became a stepping stone for (what I think) the composition of one of Williams' best scores: The Empire Strikes Back

No doubt though when all six come out on DVD we will all have a day with endless supply of food and drink watching all six of them in one go!!

[Morn 8]

ANH is the least good of the original trilogy. Large amounts of it seem stale and dry. And ANH wasn't that new, it was the old done in a modern way. Much of what it did was already done in old serials and Kubrick's 2001.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Expect Neil to start posting in this thread soon.

Stefancos-

[Guest]

When we see the saga in Episode order, by the time we get to ANH we all know so much and the characters know so little -- it's boring

[Justin 2]

AOTC better than ANH?? Are you kidding? You're kidding right? You have to be kidding.

I prefer ESB to ANH but still ANH is a classic of film making you can't compare it with that piece of....uh....movie.

Justin -Wondering if this will be another AOTC debate.

P.S. Squash him Neil...the fiend.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Among so many other great things about ANH, I'll point out just one, and I don't see how someone can disagree with this: The Yavin battle is by far the best space battle in the entire series. Some bits from ESB may come close, but they're not as big or long. ROTJ has a big space battle, but it's mostly effects shots, the real tension there comes from the Luke/Palpatine confrontation. But in ANH, there's real tension and drama and PLOT in the battle.

Marian - who always tries to watch the films in a series in the correct order.

[Morn 8]

The end space battle is stale and cold, with the tension coming off as annoyance more than anything. ROTJ has a glorious space battle. That does actually have tension, the star destroyers blocking them off, the shield still being up and the death star attacking their ships.

[Lurker 5]

I don't know where to begin.

Star Wars is the one of the greatest films ever made. It's beautifully shot, edited and scored. The story may be routine, but it's told in such a wonderful and excting way, that we go along with it. The performances are great (it's the only Star Wars film to get an Oscar nomination for acting) and most importantly the film can stand on it's own. You do not need any of the other films in the series to enjoy Star Wars.

Empire is a really well made film, but it's ending is Return of the Jedi, a film which is as boring as they come. The space battles in Jedi have absolutely no tension whatsoever. Watch Star Wars: the Empire is very close to destroying Yavin when the Death Star explodes. Who was in danger in Jedi? Some rebel ships with people we've never seen before? That's not suspenseful. An entire planet, with most of our main characters in peril? Now that's something with which I can identify.

As for the prequels, are these even Star Wars films? Sure they have the main theme, but other than that, I can find no similarity between them and Star Wars. If anything, they seem to be cut from the same cloth as ROTJ. Long, boring and turgid. The Phantom Menace has some decent moments, but Attack of the Clones is a misfire all the way. There is nothing in that film that can redeem it. Yes, it has great effects, but so what? They don't make it a good film. Characters and story do, and AOTC is seriously lacking. The story is dull, the characters are pieces of cardboard with very little motivation and the whole thing, aside from the effects, is very poorly made. It is a very poor piece of movie making.

In the end, I can't even make it through ROTJ and AOTC. These aren't just "bad Star Wars" films, these are bad films.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

A New Hope was filmed with prototype technology and nobody knew whether the film was going to work or not (Including Lucas). So they did the best they could and the rest is history.  

There is a basic error in your premise. No film called A New Hope was filmed. Star Wars was filmed. Unnaturally later it had an addition to its name, but not until later.

Star Wars has the best and most complete story of the saga. It has the best characterization of the saga. It had the best beginning and ending of all the films of the saga. The fact that some of you saw it out of order isn't our fault. We can't help it if you chose to jump into it somewhere in the middle or end.

As the idiot who pointed out if you watch them in episodic order, well only and IDIOT would think that is the way to watch these films, especially since we haven't been subjected to the horror that Ep III will be.

Those of you who prefer flash over substance, have at it. With Star Wars I get both.

Joe, who senses an almost jealousy, that comes from the fact that only Star Wars was a true great film experience while all the others were and always will be just sequels, sequels that were an after thought of success, no matter what you read.

[Guest]

OOOOuuuu! Twist my nibblets!!

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Empire is a really well made film, but it's ending is Return of the Jedi, a film which is as boring as they come.  The space battles in Jedi have absolutely no tension whatsoever.  Watch Star Wars:  the Empire is very close to destroying Yavin when the Death Star explodes.  Who was in danger in Jedi?  Some rebel ships with people we've never seen before?  That's not suspenseful.  An entire planet, with most of our main characters in peril?  Now that's something with which I can identify.

Neil

You exceeded on your Star Wars praise (well that is not bad at all, lets say you exceeded in your ROJ bash). The whole rebel fleet (or at least almost all of it) was on the battle of Endor. Luke is in the Death Star and in Yavin the only know characters were Leia and C-3PO. If you dont care for the rebel ships and crew on Endor, please do not care too for the rebel troops on Yavin. And you know the Emperor intended to destroy endor when (if) the shield was got down- in the novel (a scene i hope they add to the SSE

Luke, an IDIOT whose favourite SW film is ROJ

PS: wow it took a lot of time until someone pointed out that the movie was SW not ANH. You are becoming bland. Dissapointing... nono . I was going to put it myself....

[Trumpeteer 302]

I've always looked at "Star Wars" with great passion. It does indeed have a powerful story arc when viewed as a separate entity (which was the way it was filmed). I can't think of any better villain entrance than Darth Vader's aboard Leia's ship. And thank God for Alec Guiness! His Oscar nomination was deserved; he truly gave heart to the film and balanced Mark Hamill's often amateur performance.

As for the visual effects, they are still extraordinary (and I'm referring to the original version, not the stupid Special Edition). To this day I still marvel at the way they make lightsabers glow brightly and how that final battle creates tension through music and acting (though I still wonder, why they don't just fly right to the exhaust port instead of flying down the trench for five minutes, relying on a computer? )

Now I have viewed it as part of a series, and it carries much more weight. Watch the scene when Luke and Leia first meet. Watch the scene when Owen and Beru talk about how much Luke is becoming like his father.

Don't discount "Star Wars," I beg you.

Jeff -- who still gets chills when Han comes to the rescue at the end

[Morn 8]

most importantly the film can stand on it's own. You do not need any of the other films in the series to enjoy Star Wars.

You are presuming you need to see the other films in the trilogy to enjoy TESB or ROTJ. That is not so, although you will understand them better if you have seen the other films. The fact is though that all the films start off in the middle of a story.

Empire is a really well made film, but it's ending is Return of the Jedi, a film which is as boring as they come.

No, it's one of the greatest films ever.

There is a basic error in your premise. No film called A New Hope was filmed. Star Wars was filmed. Unnaturally later it had an addition to its name, but not until later.

It's still the same film with it's new name you know. :roll:

[JoeinAR 1,949]

most importantly the film can stand on it's own. You do not need any of the other films in the series to enjoy Star Wars.

You are presuming you need to see the other films in the trilogy to enjoy TESB or ROTJ. That is not so, although you will understand them better if you have seen the other films. The fact is though that all the films start off in the middle of a story.

No, Morn you are wrong, Star Wars starts off at the begining. Only with the prequels is it suddenly in the middle.

Empire is a really well made film, but it's ending is Return of the Jedi, a film which is as boring as they come.

No, it's one of the greatest films ever.

No, Morn you are wrong, its a good film but it is boring, and not the equal of Star Wars or ESB.

There is a basic error in your premise. No film called A New Hope was filmed. Star Wars was filmed. Unnaturally later it had an addition to its name, but not until later.

It's still the same film with it's new name you know. :roll:

No, Morn you are wrong, Star Wars is a film from 1977 that most of you have never seen.

[Morn 8]

No, Morn you are wrong, Star Wars starts off at the begining. Only with the prequels is it suddenly in the middle.

Situations, characters and events refer too much to what happened in the past to truily call it the start of the story.

No, Morn you are wrong, its a good film but it is boring, and not the equal of Star Wars or ESB.

No, Morn you are wrong, Star Wars is a film from 1977 that most of you have never seen.

LOL

[Guest]

To express my feelings truly, I´m annoyed as hell !

Damn, that same old f*****g s**t of "Empire is a masterpiece, the rest sucks" or kind of that!

I´m sick of it, I can´t express myself enough how much I think that this is total bullshit!

Before having internet access I never even thought about prefering one above the others, it´s a bit like saying to your three children "Yeah, I like you all and stuff, but Jack you are ugly and Jill your stupid as hell...I love Joe the most!"

Don´t get me wrong, not only do I not says so, I really don´t think so!

Star Wars (A new Hope) didn´t need Empire to be a phenomenon and Return of the Jedi is the best ending of a fantastic trilogy...ever(if you don´t agree watch Alien 3, Back to the Future 3 and even Battlestar Galatica 3 till your eyes bleed, which won´t take long )!

If I wanted to, I could critize Empire too (how about overkill use of the Imperial March for a start ), but I´m not eager for that, because I love the whole classic Star Wars trilogy with all my heart and think that they are, together(!!!), the greatest movies of all time !

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Return of the Jedi is the best ending of a fantastic trilogy...ever(if you don´t agree watch Alien 3, Back to the Future 3 and even Battlestar Galatica 3 till your eyes bleed, which won´t take long )!

Rubbish, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is the best conclusion of a trilogy so far.

And in 10 + months that will be replaced by Lord Of The Rings: The Return OF The King.

Stefancos- who thinks Alien 3 is a brilliant masterpiece, and loves Back To The Future 3, and know Battlestar Gallactica 3 does not exist

[Guest]

Rubbish, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is the best conclusion of a trilogy so far.

Hmm, I think to call anything that has a "IV" in it´s title to be the conclusion of a trilogy is rubbish

And in 10 + months that will be replaced by Lord Of The Rings: The Return OF The King.  

Wouldn´t bet my money on that, read the book, ending sucked, it´s just that plain simple(to be fair, the "showdown" sucked, not the ending).

I could coment further (i´ve seen "Battlestar Galactica 3", trust me), but think this is getting pointless..

let´s just say, Star Wars is the greatest of all time, because everyone else seems to think his (insignificant) favorite must compete with it !

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hmm, I think to call anything that has a "IV" in it´s title to be the conclusion of a trilogy is rubbish  

Stefancos- :roll:

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Hmm, I think to call anything that has a "IV" in it´s title to be the conclusion of a trilogy is rubbish    

but it is the conclusion of a trilogy, whether you believe it or not. It is the conclusion of a 3 film arc.

[Guest]

but it is the conclusion of a trilogy, whether you believe it or not. It is the conclusion of a 3 film arc.

Couldn´t care less!

Sorry, if I touch your "holy grail" here, but mine gets raped every day(by people like you?)!

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Rubbish, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home is the best conclusion of a trilogy so far.

Jakster: This makes sense because that trilogy started with Trek II.

And in 10 + months that will be replaced by Lord Of The Rings: The Return OF The King.

Most certainly.

Stefancos- who thinks Alien 3 is a brilliant masterpiece,

Long live Fincher and Goldenthal!

and loves Back To The Future 3,

Yes.

and know Battlestar Gallactica 3 does not exist

I didn't know that.

Regarding ROTK's showdown...I've heard people saying it sucker before, and I simply don't understand this at all. What sucked? Because you didn't see Sauron? How dangerous would he be if he actually appeared at Mount Doom and was defeated by a simple Hobbit? That would totally ruin everything that makes him menacing, and it would make the ending trivial and implausible. Actually, I don't understand how one could even expect him to turn up there when reading the book - it's easy as this: If Sauron turns up, everything's lost. The only reason to even think of this is if one has seen to many crappy Fantasy/SciFi movies.

Marian - who thinks the showdown is excellent (and very likely the only possibility that makes sense), and the ending is too good to describe it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

oh goodness, someone else like Chris who can't make distinctions between the three films of vastly qualitative differences.

Joe, chuckling again, thinking of Luke telling Leia they were sisters and brothers, until the prequels, truely the most wretched acting of the saga.

[Lurker 5]

The whole rebel fleet (or at least almost all of it) was on the battle of Endor. Luke is in the Death Star and in Yavin the only know characters were Leia and C-3PO. If you dont care for the rebel ships and crew on Endor, please do not care too for the rebel troops on Yavin. And you know the Emperor intended to destroy endor when (if) the shield was got down- in the novel (a scene i hope they add to the SSE

But don't you see, there is a perfect opportunity for suspense that was left out of Jedi. If Luke is on the Death Star, why didn't they play up that angle that he's on board this giant space station that is about to explode? It would have brought in some much needed emotion to this bland, dull film. As it is, he might as well just be on another ship as there is no concern for his well being. And not only is there no tension in this scene, while this huge attack is going on, he has enough time to stop and talk to his dying father. This is very sloppy. It should have been a race for Luke to get the hell out of there, rescuing his father. As the movie is, it's just a poorly made film with very little entertainment value.

As for the Death Star, it's not nearly as menacing in Jedi as it is in Star Wars. In Star Wars we see the Death Star destroy a planet with one shot. What do we see in Jedi? The Death Star just takes pot shots at rebel space ships. Big deal.

Luke, an IDIOT whose favourite SW film is ROJ

When you grow up you'll learn.

Neil

[Guest]

Joe, chuckling again, thinking of Luke telling Leia they were sisters and brothers, until the prequels, truely the most wretched acting of the saga.

Has anyone here any other opinion besides what all mass media "critics" say, heard it all before...disagree!

[Ricard 2,245]

I'll just say (once again) that Return of the Jedi is, in my opinion, a VERY GOOD and EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING film.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Joe, chuckling again, thinking of Luke telling Leia they were sisters and brothers, until the prequels, truely the most wretched acting of the saga.

Has anyone here any other opinion besides what all mass media "critics" say, heard it all before...disagree!

I remember my local critic gave ROTJ 4 stars, but I always thought that one scene, mind you, one scene was horrid, I love parts. The scene where the ewok gets killed and the other grieves is a brave scene, I have always had reservations about the redemption of Vadar, in the words of Shortround, big mistake.

Joe, who misses the part in ROTJ before the SE, I love Celebrate the Love, Celebrate the Loveeeee. Da deda dedah.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I'll just say (once again) that Return of the Jedi is, in my opinion, a VERY GOOD and EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING film.

I agree entirely.

[Ricard 2,245]

Luke, an IDIOT whose favourite SW film is ROJ

When you grow up you'll learn.

You mean I still have to grow up?

Ricard - Whose favorite SW film is also ROTJ

[Guest]

Ricard wrote:

I'll just say (once again) that Return of the Jedi is, in my opinion, a VERY GOOD and EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING film.

That guy is wise

[Lurker 5]

Luke, an IDIOT whose favourite SW film is ROJ

When you grow up you'll learn.

You mean I still have to grow up?

Ricard - Whose favorite SW film is also ROTJ

I'm afraid so.

Neil - super mature

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I'll just say (once again) that Return of the Jedi is, in my opinion, a VERY GOOD and EXTREMELY ENTERTAINING film.

Some parts are a bit weird, the whole Jabba business for example doesn't have much to do with the rest of the movie. But as a whole, I still find it very good, and while I prefer ANH's space battle, the Luke/Vader/Emperor confrontation makes ROTJ's climax my favourite of the saga.

Marian - who likes Vader's redemption and doesn't understand why others don't.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Vader's redemption rings false to me, but that aside,

I still love the first three Star Wars films as a whole. I covet the dvd's will get them even if Lucas doesn't give us the originals, but they are a dvd holy grail.

Personally I have never liked a #3 film of any saga was a truely great film. I do thing Jedi is good, and at times very good, I love Escape from the Planet of the Apes, which is an extremely well acted, well told film, and I have high hopes for Prisoner of Azkaban. All my LOTR fans say ROTK will be the best, it will certainly be the longest.

[Justin 2]

Hey ROTJ is a good film. I mean compared with the prequels its gorgeous.

However nothing will beat the duel in Empire. NOTHING.

Justin -Who could easily say that scene is the greatest ever composed for cinema.

[Lurker 5]

Personally I have never liked a #3 film of any saga was a truely great film.

Army of Darkness is a classic.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Personally I have never liked a #3 film of any saga was a truely great film.

Army of Darkness is a classic.

Neil

yeah but I still like Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2 better. Evil Dead scared the S#!+ out of me. That is a film not to be watched in the dark when you live in the woods.

Joe, wondering if Raimi is sincere about Evil Dead 4, the Return of Ash.

[King Mark 3,631]

[

Regarding ROTK's showdown...I've heard people saying it sucker before, and I simply don't understand this at all. What sucked? Because you didn't see Sauron? How dangerous would he be if he actually appeared at Mount it.

He should have appeared at some point in book 3,maybe not on Mt Doom,but somewhere at the end.Not much is said about him and you never know for sure if he really exists,some might like the mystery or that you can make up whatever meaning you want out of it,but I'd rather have a description I can imagine to a degree in that kind of book.Yes,that was my big disappointement when reading the book.

MaybeTolkien ran out of inspiration when it came to describe Sauron's Castle and the bad guy himself.

K.M.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I don't think it's a lack of inspiration. It was without a doubt deliberate. I'm not even sure if Sauron has a physical form in the books. As for inspiration, I find the short description of Barad Dur at the climax to be spot-on. And Sauron is described a couple of times throughout the books. But really, how should Sauron appear? If you want battles between the Maiar and Valar, read the Silmarillion....but there's simply no way he could appear in LOTR and not immediately have domination over at least most of Middle-earth.

Marian - who finds the modern urge to always show some ultra-strong badass who in the end loses to some far wearker person to be a lack of inspiration.

[BigKenLittle 6]

Everyone keeps talking about this movie A New Hope... It sounds an awful lot like a movie I saw in 1977 called Star Wars, anyone heard of it?

I guess you really had to be there, right? I can't begin to explain what a phenomenon that Star Wars was in the 70's. Seeing the news footage and reading about it really can't compare to the actual experience of sitting in a darkened theatre, that was built in the 1920's, and feeling the rush of adreniline that comes from seeing something, that had never been done before, for the first time. The saying "everything old is new again" really took place for me on that May afternoon in 1977. I didn't realize it at the time, (I was only 10), but now in retrospect, I understand what the connection was. For adults, it was a return to a simpler time of Movie serials, ten cent admission, real butter on popcorn and a future that was untarnished. For people my age it was like something that we had never experienced. We had seen the "B" movies on television, with the really bad acting and scotch tape holding together the models. Some stories stood out (War of the Worlds and The Day The Earth Stood Still), but here was a movie that was designed for adults, that adults were relating to, something that kids could actually share with them. It had an adult feel to it. It looked incredible, still does. For my money, I'll take John Dykstra's models and Stuart Freeborn's Wookie over ANY of the CGI characters and ships that are around now. Another important element that is missing from Sci-Fi these days is a sense of hope for the future. At the end of Star Wars, you are left with the feeling that a small group of people, or even one single person, can make a difference, if they are willing to take the risks. There is a triumphant, operatic feel to the end of Star Wars that makes you want to follow the story through.

To sumise; I guess when you ask "What is so great?", you are really asking the question, Why does it mean so much to you? And that's what I've tried to explain... There are better movies out there, Citizen Kane, It's A Wonderful Life, North By Northwest, but unless a movie truly touches that special place for you, then no matter how well we all explain it, YOU will never understand. If you have only experienced the SE version of "A New Hope" on video, then you have never seen "STAR WARS", I doubt if there are very many members here who have... And I am sorry for that... You missed out on a glorious moment in history...

FADE TO BLACK

CREDITS ROLL...

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

The whole rebel fleet (or at least almost all of it) was on the battle of Endor. Luke is in the Death Star and in Yavin the only know characters were Leia and C-3PO. If you dont care for the rebel ships and crew on Endor, please do not care too for the rebel troops on Yavin. And you know the Emperor intended to destroy endor when (if) the shield was got down- in the novel (a scene i hope they add to the SSE

But don't you see, there is a perfect opportunity for suspense that was left out of Jedi. If Luke is on the Death Star, why didn't they play up that angle that he's on board this giant space station that is about to explode? It would have brought in some much needed emotion to this bland, dull film. As it is, he might as well just be on another ship as there is no concern for his well being. And not only is there no tension in this scene, while this huge attack is going on, he has enough time to stop and talk to his dying father. This is very sloppy. It should have been a race for Luke to get the hell out of there, rescuing his father. As the movie is, it's just a poorly made film with very little entertainment value.

As for the Death Star, it's not nearly as menacing in Jedi as it is in Star Wars. In Star Wars we see the Death Star destroy a planet with one shot. What do we see in Jedi? The Death Star just takes pot shots at rebel space ships. Big deal.

Neil

Well When luke leaves the Death Star it has some suspense for me, the thing is exploding and so...

The DS II destroys almost all but one of the Calamari Cruisers, the biggest ships in the rebel fleet. As i said , almost the whole fleet is in the battle, the Alliance if fighting for its very surviving.

the DS II is bigger than the first that adds something to it, i thing, plus it can shot within minutes and moving/small targets, in other words it is more precise, while the original DS took a day to recharge (i dunno if it EU)

And the urge to destroy it is not because of what it can do now, but what would it do if not stopped.

Vader redemption is wonderful, and If Luke had had to kill Vader, then teh Whole 'I AM YOUR FATHER' thing would have been crap. Why tell us the Vader is Anakin if he is going to die as Vader anyway?

And changing of subject, i cannot understand why people like so much LOTR movies, the first is ok as a book adaptation and the second is afwul (it should have been nominated for razzie as worst film adaptation if such category existed) and if they continue in that way, the third will be even worst. Literally, PJ has 'rapped' TTT and almost nobody cares. That i cannot understand.

Luke, who knows that if GL had done those movies as they are, he would not be among the living right now.

[Guest]

And changing of subject, i cannot understand why people like so much LOTR movies, the first is ok as a book adaptation and the second is afwul (it should have been nominated for razzie as worst film adaptation if such category existed) and if they continue in that way, the third will be even worst. Literally, PJ has 'rapped' TTT and almost nobody cares. That i cannot understand.  

Luke, who knows that if GL had done those movies as they are, he would not be among the living right now.

Excatly my point!

The difference seems to be only this:

The LOTR movies must be good, because "everyone" says so.

You wouldn´t believe how many people are out there without a real opinion, they think it is their own, but in reality they "adapt" their opinion.

You know what would be a really interesting experiment?

Let´s make some professionals the absolut worst movie they can think of, an example of how it SHOULDN´T be done and let´s rave critics AND fake audience about it endlessy and see how regular moviegoers outside the "project " would react.

I bet there would many people who would call it "superior art" or some other bullshit, because their mind would be brainwashed or they are afraid to be "wrong"!

[Morn 8]

But don't you see, there is a perfect opportunity for suspense that was left out of Jedi. If Luke is on the Death Star, why didn't they play up that angle that he's on board this giant space station that is about to explode?

That would have come off as corny.

And not only is there no tension in this scene

What about the whole being chased by a fireball thing and the whole my father might die thing.

while this huge attack is going on, he has enough time to stop and talk to his dying father. This is very sloppy.

It wouldn't be any better if he left his father to die, either in or out of the shuttle.

It should have been a race for Luke to get the hell out of there, rescuing his father. As the movie is, it's just a poorly made film with very little entertainment value.

That would have ruined a great death scene.

As for the Death Star, it's not nearly as menacing in Jedi as it is in Star Wars. In Star Wars we see the Death Star destroy a planet with one shot. What do we see in Jedi? The Death Star just takes pot shots at rebel space ships. Big deal.

Yeah right, you need to see it actually causing damage to know it's dangerious?

Another important element that is missing from Sci-Fi these days is a sense of hope for the future.

You truily don't understand sci fi then, as most sci fi is about warning the world of things that could prevent the future from being great. And note Star Wars isn't really sci fi but fantasy in a sci fi world. It has more in comman with LOTR than sci fi.

but it is the conclusion of a trilogy, whether you believe it or not. It is the conclusion of a 3 film arc.

That's quite arguable.

Joe, chuckling again, thinking of Luke telling Leia they were sisters and brothers, until the prequels, truely the most wretched acting of the saga.

I don't see anything wrong with it.

[Lurker 5]

But don't you see, there is a perfect opportunity for suspense that was left out of Jedi. If Luke is on the Death Star, why didn't they play up that angle that he's on board this giant space station that is about to explode?

That would have come off as corny.

The movie ends with teddy bears dancing around a campfire, and you think my idea is corny?

And not only is there no tension in this scene

What about the whole being chased by a fireball thing and the whole my father might die thing.

If I recall correctly, we first see a ship taking off and then we cut to Luke. We don't even know who's ship this is, since there is never an establishing shot. We have no idea who is in it. It could just be some random space craft taking off. Just another sign of how poorly made this film really is.

while this huge attack is going on, he has enough time to stop and talk to his dying father. This is very sloppy.

It wouldn't be any better if he left his father to die, either in or out of the shuttle.

Why not have Vader die on Endor with Han and Leia present as well?

It should have been a race for Luke to get the hell out of there, rescuing his father. As the movie is, it's just a poorly made film with very little entertainment value.

That would have ruined a great death scene.

It's hardly great. It's like watching Humpty Dumpty die.

As for the Death Star, it's not nearly as menacing in Jedi as it is in Star Wars. In Star Wars we see the Death Star destroy a planet with one shot. What do we see in Jedi? The Death Star just takes pot shots at rebel space ships. Big deal.

Yeah right, you need to see it actually causing damage to know it's dangerious?

Rule number one of cinema, show don't tell. I never saw it doing anything really destructive. Hell, one A-Wing fighter was able to take out a Super Star Destoyer. How powerful does that make the Death Star, as portrayed in Jedi, seem in comparison?

Neil

[Justin 2]

one A-Wing fighter was able to take out a Super Star Destoyer.  How powerful does that make the Death Star, as portrayed in Jedi, seem in comparison?

Acctually it took 3 A-Wings to take it out.

Still you don't have to like it. I do. Sure seems like you are in a minority here.

Justin -Who thinks Jedi is quite fun.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

If I recall correctly, we first see a ship taking off and then we cut to Luke. We don't even know who's ship this is, since there is never an establishing shot. We have no idea who is in it. It could just be some random space craft taking off. Just another sign of how poorly made this film really is.  

WRONG!

We see Luke stopping before the landing ramp of a Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle, where Anakin Skywalker dies. Then we see a hangar (the same where Luke and Vader's corpse was) and a lambda Class Imperial Shuttle leaving it. Then we see Luke Tinkering with the controls of an Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle (since they are equal to the ones of the Shuttle Tydirium - Another Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle) and then We see a Lambda class Imperial Shuttle with the exploding hangar in the background. If they are not the same WHAT IN THE HECK IS IT?

Personal thinking: I think it is Darth Vader's Personal Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle.

[Guest]

Without ANH, there wouldn't be any prequels, sequels, there wouldn't be any SW, hell, ''neo-classical'' and orchestra might not be the standard for scores. I like the scores of the sequels much more in terms of enjoyability (one reason is that they have more themes), but they wouldn't be possible without ANH to built upon. ANH deserves some respect.

[Lurker 5]

If I recall correctly, we first see a ship taking off and then we cut to Luke. We don't even know who's ship this is, since there is never an establishing shot. We have no idea who is in it. It could just be some random space craft taking off. Just another sign of how poorly made this film really is.  

WRONG!

We see Luke stopping before the landing ramp of a Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle, where Anakin Skywalker dies. Then we see a hangar (the same where Luke and Vader's corpse was) and a lambda Class Imperial Shuttle leaving it. Then we see Luke Tinkering with the controls of an Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle (since they are equal to the ones of the Shuttle Tydirium - Another Lambda Class Imperial Shuttle) and then We see a Lambda class Imperial Shuttle with the exploding hangar in the background. If they are not the same WHAT IN THE HECK IS IT?

If you watch the scene, you'll realize that all you ever see is Luke and Vader at the ramp. It's never shown clearly what kind of ship it is or even whether it's a ship. Only when we have the shot of Luke piloting it out of the Death Star (after we've seen it take off, with no clue who or what is in it) do we realize it's Luke's shuttle. Perhaps if the audience had known ahead of time that Luke would be flying away in that shuttle the scene would not have been quite as limp.

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Neil, you are nitpicking a bit.

Stefancos- who is actually proud of Neil.