New Project: John Williams Potter Scoring

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:16 AM, bollemanneke said:

Really liked the end credits for 7.1.

 

Thanks! Those were fun to put together, lots of last-minute ideas when we were compiling it.

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

We’re finally back to regular sized cues this week (even though this one is close to 9 minutes still!). We hope you enjoy Cue No. 49: The Prince’s Tale!

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

Happy Christmas Eve! We have some long-anticipated tragedy for you guys today. Enjoy Cue No. 50: The Forest Again!

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

Happy New Year! We start off 2024 with Cue No. 51: King’s Cross. Next week, we’ll be taking a break from releasing cues because from here to the end of the movie, the music is continuous. Here’s a list of cues that will be released for you guys all at the same time on 1/28:

 

Cue No. 52: In the Courtyard
Cue No. 53: The Battle of Hogwarts
Cue No. 54: Molly Duels Bellatrix
Cue No. 55: The Destruction of Tom Riddle
Cue No. 56: A Flaw in the Plan
Cue No. 57: Epilogue and Finale 

 

Enjoy Cue 51, and we’ll see you all at the end of the month for the epic finale!

[bored 309]

What's the progress on the finale? I'm really curious to see what you guys do with it.

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

12 hours ago, bored said:

What's the progress on the finale? I'm really curious to see what you guys do with it.

 

Ah, you beat me to it! Sorry, we had to take some extra time with this one (even more than planned, haha). I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

We apologize for being late to the Sunday release, but it's all done! We made it! Here is the finale of the Deathly Hallows, Cues 52-57. The end credits will be released in two weeks - along with the other huge pieces at the end of Hallows here, the credits are hefty and we want to do a good job on them. We really hope you enjoy and feel as nostalgic as we do with this ending. It's hard to believe this is the last one.

 

Thank you all so so so much for listening over the years! We still have the usual stuff in store for the coming month, so this isn't done for good yet of course, but it's a big milestone today. Let us know what you think!

MS

[bored 309]

A very satisfying and well done finale! Definitely worth the wait! I think the additions to "Leaving Hogwarts" definitely give the theme piece more of a feeling of growth and maturity compared to the verbatim reciting at the end of the original score. I think at this point I might as well share my thoughts on this score, and the project overall. Basically think of this like a JWFan review.

 

While I do think it was very good still, I surprisingly feel that I might have the most issues with this score compared to the others. To start, I feel some themes were sorely missed and left out. I think a new version of "Gryffindor Wins The House Cup" would have fit in better for the finale, as I have temp tracked before, and to me it felt the most nostalgic, and even syncs to the scene almost perfectly. Plus it would have given more statements to "Wondrous World" which felt somewhat snubbed in this project (though I do love its use in the ending train scene). I understand you guys think it doesn't work for the trio, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.

 

0:00 - 1:33

 

Another theme that I'm very surprised was neglected from this project in general was the bridge/second half of the flying theme from "Hedwig's Theme", arguably the most emotional theme in the suite. There was quite a few opportunities to use it as well, such as the first task in Goblet, "Flight of the Order", "Escape From Privet Drive", and just before the dragon takes off in this film. 

 

Next is more of a question, but why was the Voldemort 2 theme never allowed to have its full statement besides in Goblet of Fire? Looking back on the first two scores, the theme was very rarely not allowed to finish, and if it did, it was usually to signal his defeat, it was cut from part of a temp track (Chamber of Secrets) or occasionally done for time purposes. It gets close to having a full statement in the finale here and that's what I thought you were saving it for, but it still doesn't get its final phrases. Again there were opportunities in the Ministry battle where it could have finished instead of cutting it off with the choir/trumpet cluster, "The Dark Lord Ascending" had plenty of space for it, even "The Forest Again" could have made room instead of the Death Eater/Bellatrix themes which don't have much to do there since the death eater doesn't do or say much and Bellatrix says nothing. 

 

I also feel that the overall tone/orchestration of these last two scores didn't always reflect the darkest chapter of Harry Potter. Say what you will about the Desplat scores, but there are a lot of unique sonic elements to them that give them a darker feel than the other films, such as more violin/cello solos and unique woodwinds, and pitch bended instruments. There's even John Williams' rewrite of "Hedwig's Theme" for Anne-Sophie Mutter that features darker variations of every single theme in the suite with stark solo violin textures. 

 

Now of course there are times that you guys capture this darker tone, such as "Three Wanderers", "The Tale of the Three Brothers" and the darker choir choices in the Deathly Hallows theme and "The Dark Lord Ascending". Within your own themes, I love the transformations they go through, such as the innocent Deathly Hallows theme in "King's Cross" and the Order of the Phoenix theme in this score is nothing short of perfectly handled. Plus that a capella choir version of "Fawkes the Phoenix" was incredibly touching, as is that whole "King's Cross" cue. 

 

Whereas some of Williams' themes I think are used a bit too similarly to past versions. "The Forest Again" is a good example of this, where the use of the family theme for Harry's goodbye was a good idea, but it being exactly the same as it is in the first film, makes it feel like the theme hasn't grown, and makes it feel like it's the same situation, when it should be more tragic and bittersweet since we know he's actually going to die this time. Same thing with the use of "Window to the Past", where using the same version as before makes it feel less tragic to me, as it makes it feel too much like nothing has changed. It would have been more affecting if the theme was nothing but a shadow of what it was, which is what made it work so well in the Grimmauld Place scene where Harry sees Sirius' room. 

 

However, all that being said, I'm incredibly happy to have seen a project like this exist, for the chance to see something I never thought I'd see. Though I criticize some of the specifics, the fact that you guys created 5 John Williams-style Harry Potter score from scratch is an amazing achievement in and of itself that you should absolutely be proud of. The fact that you got close to mimicking his style at all is unbelievably impressive, and in many ways, did better than 3 professional Hollywood composers that took over the series! 

 

Not to mention I will definitely be coming back to these scores quite often (and already do!) For any modern score to do that for me is quite rare, so the fact that every one of your scores are able to do that for me speaks volumes to the quality of them, and the talent that went into creating them. The sheer depth in thematic material, and amount of new themes while balancing the old, and cleverly re-contextualizing them is staggering. What you managed to do with "Wand of the Phoenix" and the 3-note motif is practically dead on with what I imagine Williams might have done. On that same note, Order of the Phoenix is definitely my favorite score from you guys, and is almost exactly what I imagined if John Williams had composed for that film.

 

While it may not be perfect, it at least finally feels like we have a proper musical conclusion to the Harry Potter films, and it's truly magical that you guys achieved that! I can't wait to hear the end credits suite and the rest of the remastered Goblet of Fire cues!

 

(P.S. Apologies for the novel-length comment in advance). 

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

@bored wow, thanks so much for your really thoughtful review! I'll let Ben respond to the whole thing but it is great to read your thoughts. I'm still in awe that we've gotten to share it and have people listen, so this means a lot.

 

9 hours ago, bored said:

Not to mention I will definitely be coming back to these scores quite often (and already do!)

That's awesome to hear!  Also, just thinking as a listener myself, OotP is possibly my favorite too just because of how differently it made me see the film. 

 

9 hours ago, bored said:

While it may not be perfect, it at least finally feels like we have a proper musical conclusion to the Harry Potter films, and it's truly magical that you guys achieved that!

This is so nice, thank you. A proper musical conclusion seemed like a huge impossible dream when we started this. It means a lot that it could actually happen! And nothing's perfect (plus of course we could never ever hope to be Williams, lol). But even with some of the newest JW scores, people discuss what themes could have gone where or some moments that didn't stick  so I'm thrilled, honestly.

 

I hope you've enjoyed listening as much as we have enjoyed your comments through the years! 

 

MS

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

@bored Thank you so much! And thank you for your passionate response! It means a lot that this project would spark such a great discussion. I will do my best to answer you comments so here we go: 

DH2 was by far the hardest score to do because it was a balance of “does this go in or that? There’s only 90 seconds so only one will work” when it came to reprising things. Not to mention it’s the longest and most active of the five scores despite it being the shortest movie. So I can both agree with you on Gryffindor Wins the House Cup working at the end, and also say it came down to which one I felt was best to put in given the score surrounding it as well. Lonely First Night doesn’t appear in the original Sorcerer’s Stone film either, so technically it’s not a reprise, which made me feel like I was getting away with something . And as far as Wondrous World representing the trio, I can meet you halfway on that one, but I think because the concert work (and JW) speak about it as Harry’s viewpoint into the world he comes to love so much, my brain has always strongly associated it with his perspective. 

When you say the bridge/flying theme from Hedwig’s Theme, I’m going to assume you mean the B theme of Nimbus 2000 material. (If you mean the literal bridge of Hedwig’s theme, we can discuss that too). As far as the Nimbus 2000 material goes, I personally always saw that as just part of “Mr. Longbottom Flies” within the context of a scene. I know it’s popular via the concert work, but it doesn’t get air time (pun intended) outside of that scene anyway. This is also a good example of how many different options were available during the project. Even at the outset, I knew that I had to just write what I felt might work best, knowing that there were plenty of options available, and that listeners were certainly chime in and give is their take. I appreciate this so much! 

 

The Voldemort 2 question is a good one because it’s both something I didn’t even recognize until you brought it up. I think, looking back, that I began shortening it regularly because harmonically it takes a lot of screen time to unfold. Additionally, the end of the full theme always cornered me harmonically, and I think leaving a theme open-ended allows for both a turn in a different direction, and more anticipation within the scene it appears. I’m going to have to go back and listen though. This is so interesting! 

 

Regarding the tone and orchestration of Hallows, I tried to stay away from my own writing as much as possible in this project (as you know of course) until I came to a scene where there really was no previous reference available. There was also a creative decision early on that Sorcerer’s Stone had to be the sound template for Deathly Hallows when it could be. That way, the nostalgic moments don’t feel like a random emotional grab like the tracked moments in the actual score for DH2. Desplat wrote an amazing DH2 score for example, but his style is so different from Williams that the moments of actual Williams in that score jolt the audience out of the mood and it feels like a cheap attempt at nostalgia. Here I did my best to smooth that out. Of course like you say, nothing’s perfect, but as an alternate version of what might have happened, I felt that this was my best swing for where my writing is right now. But I do appreciate all of the cues you mentioned, where you felt it was captured - those were all more my own writing style rather than being focused on adapting and tweaking.

 

This actually brings us to the use of Williams’ themes. The example you bring up from The Forest Again was actually completely on purpose since Harry has never known his parents, and therefore has never developed a real relationship with them. I didn’t feel that there was any different between this scene and the mirror scene where I took the material from in terms of emotional growth. Harry, of course, has grown immensely, but while talking to or seeing his parents, I imagine he’s still internally 11 years old, and just a boy. I used Window to the Past the same way here. Harry sees a relationship frozen in time, so it wouldn’t be able to grow beyond where it was. You make great points, and an alternate version of that scene for sure exists (obviously since this score is basically fan fiction). Hopefully my reasons can explain why I made my choices though! 

 

Thank you SO SO much for everything you mentioned though. I truly appreciate that someone would take the time to comment so thoroughly. Not just now, but through the years. Order of the Phoenix is Molly’s favorite too, haha. Personally I’m a HBP guy, but I’m gonna need some distance before I actually know which is my favorite. After doing all the research and writing them, I become attached to certain scenes or ideas and can’t step back really until it’s done and in the books. And we've still got end credits to finish!

BP

[bored 309]

Thanks for the response! I understand that rationale, I just always imagined "Wondrous World" being an essential part of Williams' catalogue so I was hoping for more of it, especially after it had such an essential role in Chamber of Secrets. I do love it when you use it though! 

 

By the Nimbus 2000 stuff, I mean this theme specifically:

 

2:36

 

It's also one of the few returning themes in Prisoner of Azkaban so it seemed like it was an essential part of "Hedwig's Theme" that could have had some great time to shine in these fan-scores. Again as well as had some fantastic variations in the Anne-Sophie Mutter version making me believe that it was important to Williams too. 

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

Before I get all nostalgic and start reflecting on the journey of these scores - here they are!

 

The final end credits!!

 

We have our normal post-film releases coming in the next few weeks, but this is the end of a long journey that we've been so honored to share with you all. It's really made all of this so worth it to read all of your comments, thoughts, critiques, and support. I know I've said this before but we've enjoyed it so much!

 

Hope you like Cue No. 58: End Credits - Deathly Hallows Part 2 version 

 

-MS

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

For our first of the post-score releases, we've got our usual Temp Score Demos and Deleted Scenes.

 

We didn't actually end up temp scoring the Deathly Hallows films like we had with all the previous ones, but rather just filling in our favorite/most essential moments that we wanted to try out. We've shared the most significant ones today. For the deleted scenes, we chose four this time and used material from both part 1 and part 2 of Deathly Hallows.

 

@bored pretty early on in the process, I had also tried out Gryffindor Wins over the last Great Hall scene! We synced it up a bit differently though. Other than that, we've got alternates of the opening, epilogue, and King's Cross (I'd never waste an opportunity to use Artificial Intelligence!!)

 

Next two weeks will be OST/complete score. Thanks for listening!

 

MS

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

The complete score is here!!

https://sites.google.com/view/ravendor/extras/dh2-score-presentations

As always, can't wait to hear your thoughts and hope you enjoy!

 

*note: the continuous cues are set up for gapless playback right now. I'll upload clean endings with the OST.

 

MS

[mstrox 6,651]

I’m not typically hyper-attentive to stuff outside of General, so I hadn’t been following your work closely, but I watched a few Deathly Hallows videos this morning and thought it was neat - nice work!  I’ll make an effort to stroll through the whole project soon.  Congratulations on successful completion!

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

And finally, we have the last post for Deathly Hallows 2: the OST presentation!

 

There are no concert works unique to this film, but there is an extended version of the Epilogue ("All Was Well") in its place. The OST and the full score are both available for download as FLAC/MP3, and there are now clean openings and endings for continuous cues in the full score if you'd rather have those.

 

Thank you so much for going on this journey with us! Hearing from all of you on JWFan has meant the world to us both. We hope you'll stay tuned for future updates when we finish remastering Goblet of Fire. Until then, we're going to enjoy having 8 complete Potter scores in the style of John Williams!

 

 

We would love to hear everyone's thoughts, as always. And thanks @mstrox! It's unexpected for someone new to comment now, so I'm curious what you'll think now that the whole project is out there. Hope you like it if you get the chance to listen further. Thank you for your comment!

 

MS

[bored 309]

Had this idea recently, would you guys be alright if I made some alternate tracks based on this project? I have a few ideas I want to try out while still keeping your thematic material.

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

On 20/03/2024 at 2:45 PM, bored said:

Had this idea recently, would you guys be alright if I made some alternate tracks based on this project? I have a few ideas I want to try out while still keeping your thematic material.

 

 

Absolutely! You planning to just post them here? We’ve been careful about trying not to upset WB. 

[bored 309]

Yeah! Since it has your themes contained in them, I was just going to post them here since I don't want people on YouTube to think I made them myself.

[bored 309]

My first one is an alternate take on the beginning of "A Flaw in the Plan" since I couldn't resist integrating the "House Cup" cue with your themes. There's a new variation of "Ron and Hermione" mixed in with it, as well as a Chamber of Secrets style ending to the "Wondrous World" reprise. I decided to leave a little bit of silence until the Deathly Hallows are discussed to allow a little bit of breathing space to let everything sink in. Hope you guys enjoy it!

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ISQmcPgscOm-FOVfZKa8751upC-S797E/view?usp=sharing

[Potter Scoring Project 547]

@bored Wow! So happy you went and made this alternate version of my alternate version, haha. Never did I think people would take this project and run with it. I’m glad we’ve both got our interpretations out there! I like the way you handled the transitions in this one. 

[bored 309]

Thank you! Still busy with university for the most part, so I might not make another one for a bit, but I'd like to do a few more for fun at some point.

[Faleel 5,348]

@Potter Scoring Project have you guys considered using stem separation to create a new mix with your music replacing the original score?