Did Jerry Goldsmith really call John Williams “such a snob”?

[Thor 7,513]

A bit off-topic, but somewhat related to what you're discussing: I've always been fascinated with composer/director working relationships that at least includes two titles. Some of the Williams collaborations that fall within this category have been discussed to death over the years - Spielberg, Lucas, Columbus, Rydell, Stone, Allen, Altman....

 

But others would be neat to discuss at some point: Mann, Pollack, Robson, Wendkos, Ritt, Kershner....

[bollemanneke 3,349]

On 08/03/2024 at 7:11 AM, JTN said:

Someone on the FSM board mentioned that Goldsmith called Williams that. The FSM comment was regarding the Variety article where Williams says that Goldsmith was an unhappy person.

 

Here is Williams’ quote: 

“Alex North, David Raksin, Jerry Goldsmith and others — brilliant, beautiful talents. All unhappy.” Most had barely suppressed ambitions to write concert music or symphonies instead of scoring movies. They believed that they were, in a sense, slumming it and laboring for directors who they described as “imperious and obstructive.” 

This is so strange. Why would they think they could become more famous writing concert pieces?

[mrbellamy 6,287]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

A bit off-topic, but somewhat related to what you're discussing: I've always been fascinated with composer/director working relationships that at least includes two titles. Some of the Williams collaborations that fall within this category have been discussed to death over the years - Spielberg, Lucas, Columbus, Rydell, Stone, Allen, Altman....

 

But others would be neat to discuss at some point: Mann, Pollack, Robson, Wendkos, Ritt, Kershner....

 

The problem with some of those is that fewer of the movies or TV shows really have much of a shelf life, so interest is low and/or availability is scarce. And also less is known through interviews about the partnership to supplement what we can observe.

 

It's always easier to comment and run deeper on the things we're all already familiar with and lived through. There's so much extra context with the older stuff that it gets difficult to parse, even though I have a broad idea of the history. Which is partly why I'm really looking forward to a proper Williams biography and documentary. 

 

Delbert Mann is a key figure in Williams's trajectory, though. I mean someone could listen to Fitzwilly, Heidi, and Jane Eyre and that alone is a solid primer on "pre-Jaws" Williams. And of course Jane Eyre is a very highly regarded score around here. I haven't gotten around to the movies yet, though, so can't say what they have that makes this partnership distinct from others, aesthetically. 

 

Martin Ritt is also kind of an interesting one because he made some relatively notable movies, including Hud, The Spy Who Came in From the Cold, Sounder, and Norma Rae, but the Williams collabs don't really seem to rate in his career and the scores are not JWFan favorites. But I didn't realize looking at it that they had Pete N Tillie and Conrack close together, and then a long gap until Stanley & Iris which ended up being Ritt's final film; he died that year. 

 

Wendkos seems interesting for being a first, at least. The Robson movies seem to have some range and Earthquake gives you Irwin Allen crossover. I have no comment otherwise. I wonder about Pollack and Kershner, because they only did one film with Williams but I guess there's TV? I have no idea which were episodes they actually worked together on, IMDb doesn't make this easy. Or how much interaction Williams had with his directors for episodic television, in general. Or what these collaborations might illuminate about The Empire Strikes Back or Sabrina. 

 

That is another thing about the TV work. I don't know if we have a master thread on this but there should probably be a catalog of all the shows and episodes Williams did tbh. And which can be found online. Again, I've always found this info too spread out and incomplete to be much fun exploring....

[Thor 7,513]

16 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 I wonder about Pollack and Kershner, because they only did one film with Williams but I guess there's TV?

 

Yes, the others are TV. Thanks for your comments!

 

I particularly find the Robson collaboration fascinating. Here's this guy who had worked in some capacity (editor and director) in the Hollywood Golden Age, usually big studio productions in the 40s and 50s (CITIZEN KANE, CAT PEOPLE, JOURNEY INTO FEAR, PEYTON PLACE, THE INN OF SIXTH HAPPINESS etc.), but then fell into lesser fare in the 60s onwards, which is when Williams & Goldsmith got involved in his work. A peculiar career trajectory. But he worked with some great composers.

 

16 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

That is another thing about the TV work. I don't know if we have a master thread on this but there should probably be a catalog of all the shows and episodes Williams did tbh. And which can be found online. Again, I've always found this info too spread out and incomplete to be much fun exploring....

 

Well, there's my webcast series that covers pretty much all of this.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

That is pretty cool about Robson's origins!

 

That point about him "falling into lesser fare" just as he hooked up with Williams is also a big part of what has always made this early period a bit daunting. It's definitely not uninteresting but the further back from 1975 I go, the less relevant Williams's work really was to film history as a whole, and the less gravitas he had as a composer. So it starts to feel like a more purely educational exercise in learning all about John Williams, specifically, even though of course there are various threads connecting him to the larger scope of Hollywood at the time. I can only take so much of doing my own research at once, though, and there have always been so many more notable films from the period to watch. But I enjoy discovering the music from time to time. 

 

I really have a lot of hope that the biography could be game-changing in terms of how I'm able to frame his early career in my head and retain these kinds of narratives and the various "characters" who faded into obscurity or died out as Williams ascended in stature. It'll probably inspire me to look more into this stuff, for sure. 

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Well, there's my webcast series that covers pretty much all of this.

 

True! You know what, when you had started sharing it, I was waiting for you to finish the series so I could listen to the whole thing and then I forgot to check after all those months but I found them in my podcast app so I will 100% listen. 

[Paul Andrew MacLean 7]

On 08/03/2024 at 5:53 AM, Thor said:

 

Ah, my old picture surfaces again.  If only Williams hadn't moved and blurred his face! 

[JTN 2,033]

Maybe it was a micro second after JG slapped him, calling him “such a snob”.

[pete 907]

54 minutes ago, JTN said:

Maybe it was a micro second after JG slapped him, calling him “such a snob”.

 

Ha, I was thinking the exact same thing! Jerry had quite a good right hook!