Horner & Gibson Back in Action?

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

I just read on FSM that Horner is scoring Mel Gibson's Apocalypto.

Anybody else stoked about this?

[John Crichton 4]

Is there really any reason to get stoked over a Horner score nowadays?

[Ollie 1,375]

No I'm not.

[Antineutrino 0]

Horner is one of the very, very few composers who really know how to score a movie.

[tpigeon 3]

He knows how to call attention to his "contributions" to the film. His music is distracting, often overbearing, and not nearly as artistic as he thinks.

Ted

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

Horner is one of the very, very few composers who really forgot how to score a movie.

Marian -

[tpigeon 3]

Yes! After I wrote that, I was thinking back on some of his 80's scores with fond appreciation. Aliens, Willow, and Star Trek II come to mind. Those were very good scores.

Ted

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

Shut up OK...JUST SHUT UP!

[Trent B 354]

Horner is one of the very, very few composers who really forgot how to score a movie.

Marian -

Indeed...these days he rips himself off by constantly re-using his own material from previous scores. That's why I don't bother with his scores any more.

[orrakul 0]

Aliens, Willow, and Star Trek II come to mind. Those were very good scores.

Ted

That's when Horner was a young and hungry composer...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

Aliens is probably the most unoriginal score Horner has ever written.

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

Lately, it seems like Horner's been trying out some originality for a change. I've only heard a little bit of Legend of Zorro and none of The New World, but both seem like good scores. Plus, it's a new Braveheart. I'm excited. Too bad the rest of you aren't.

[tpigeon 3]

Braveheart is a bigger ripoff of The Planets than anything John Williams wrote for Star Wars. And although the music in Aliens may not be grounbreaking, the score as a functioning part of the film did everything it was supposed to do.

Ted

[Mr. Breathmask 624]

Funny, since Aliens was pretty butchered in the film.

Can't hear the Planets rip in Braveheart either, but that's probably just me.

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

Meh...when trying to name Horner rips, The Planets is a bit of scapegoat.

[Beowulf 4]

Who *hasn't* ripped off The Planets in this day and age?

Its a testament to the Suite which is surely the pinnacle of 20th century classical music.

[tpigeon 3]

I believe it's Jupiter, but the first several notes of the main theme of Braveheart are exactly the same. Hey, at least he didn't rip off the whole thing. John Powell's theme for Mr. 3000 is a direct lift of this same theme.

Ted

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

Yeah, but I guess when you've heard it and been there as much and long as you have been, Ted...everything seems to resemble Jupiter in one way or another.

[tony69 0]

omg whoever said it was a blatant rip-off of planets needs to be more careful with what they're saying. it IS NOT. its simply a very common melodic idea in modal music. 5-b7-1-b3 is so commonly used in jazz improvisations, and in many other cases. i agree horner sometimes pays homage to past music but i honestly think the braveheart quotation is a genuine coincidence.

[DarthHornPlayer 0]

Its funny that Holst wrote one of the greatest and most recorded piece for orchestra and one of the most

famous if not, THE most famous piece for band, yet he wrote NOTHING else....A one hit wonder yes...but

at what point is ripping of a one hit wonder maybe not so much ripping off, rather than concidence?

DHP

@()

[Romão 2,473]

I'm not music literate at all, but the similarity between the braveheart theme and the hymn from the middle section of Jupiter is blatant for me. I do not believe it to be coincidential. And many of my friends have remarked on this too.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

You should get better friends.

Leave Braveheart the f*ck alone!

[Incanus 5,890]

Horner news thread turned into "I hate Horner" thread. How surprising on this MB.

And BTW Horner sucks!

[Romão 2,473]

I'm just talking about the theme, not the whole score. The theme simply does not sound original.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

What theme, Braveheart has several themes?

[Romão 2,473]

The main theme. I'm not sure if it is also a love theme. It's the theme everyone associates with Braveheart.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

Sigh.

I associate all of Bravehearts themes with braveheart, gimme tracktimes or something!

[Romão 2,473]

It appears promeniently in the track For the Love of a Princess.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

Oh, Horner's most wonderfull theme, what is wrong with it?

[Romão 2,473]

It sounds like the Hymn in Jupiter.

Are jus trying to increase your post count?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

I no longer need to....

[tpigeon 3]

It sounds like the Hymn in Jupiter.

At least someone agrees with me. I can't get into all the technical stuff, but all I'm saying is that whenever I hear Braveheart, and I've played this for many people who agree with me, all I hear is Jupiter.

Ted

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

I'm sure the similarity must be only supervisual, after all there are only a limited number of notes to choose from..

[Antineutrino 0]

It sounds like the Hymn in Jupiter.

At least someone agrees with me. I can't get into all the technical stuff, but all I'm saying is that whenever I hear Braveheart, and I've played this for many people who agree with me, all I hear is Jupiter.

Ted

I don't see why Horner should be critizised for sounding like Holst. John Williams ripped-off the whole Battle of Yavin track from Mars. You can also hear the football theme from Jerry Goldsmith's Rudy. And Bill Conti is also an expert in ripping off Holst.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

Trevor Jones' Fort Battle from Last Of The Mohicans ripps of The Planets, so does Williams with The Chess Game from the first Potter score.

The Vampire Hunters theme from Kilar's Dracula score, Alan Silvestri for The quick And the Dead.

But when Horner does it it suddenly becomes unacceptable.

[Romão 2,473]

Williams used those crashing chords in the moment the Death Star is about to be destroyed. It's not like he based the whole score on that.

And I can't hear the resemblance between Holst and The Chess Game.

Horner based the main theme of a major score on an already existing melody.

And I don't think Kilar's Holst rip off in Dracula is acceptable. It's quite unshameful.

[tpigeon 3]

I don't think Horner is the only composer on this Board slammed for stealing from other composers, or that it's unacceptable for him as opposed to Williams or Goldsmith. I fully acknowledge that Williams and all of the other film composers you mentioned have lifted ideas and melodies from Holst and other composers.

I will admit that, like many on this Board, I have a bias against Horner in general, and since we have an entire thread of Williams rip-offs, I just wanted to point to something of Horner's that doesn't seem to be mentioned often. Generally, I don't think Horner rips off Holst and others very often; he just repeats himself. Apart from the notes and orchestrations in his music, which I can't comment on in great detail since I am no expert of music, I just think that he has lost all sense of what a score should contribute to a movie. I generally find his scores (especially the recent ones) simply distracting and incredibly overbearing.

Ted

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

I've gone off Horner after Titanic (his last great score)

Braveheart is great, in the film and on CD.

This is as much my opinion as it is a 100% hard scientific fact.

[Trent B 354]

In the end does it really matter who ripped off who? Just as long as you enjoy the music, that's all that should matter right?

[Ollie 1,375]

Horner is just boring, I can live with his borrowing but he re-uses the same crap over and over and over to the point where his music has become so predictable and dull.

A friend of mine made a recording where he took a cue from Bicentennial Man, A Beautiful Mind and Sneakers and overlapped all three. The cue sounded like it written as one piece. Between the tears of laughter there were only a few moments where I could tell it was three seperate pieces playing at the same time.

[Morlock 12]

Braveheart is great, in the film and on CD.

This is as much my opinion as it is a 100% hard scientific fact.

Indeed. My favortie Horner work inside the film.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

i guess the consensus about Horner is that he has great ideas but dilutes them with overuse? Still, I thoroughly enjoy Rocketeer, Legends of the Fall, Braveheart and the two Zorro scores as much as my favorite JW scores.

[Ollie 1,375]

I guess that would be a good way of phrasing it.

Other than Braveheart I quit Horner after 1989 and I haven't listened to that in a few years.

[Antineutrino 0]

I guess that would be a good way of phrasing it.

Other than Braveheart I quit Horner after 1989 and I haven't listened to that in a few years.

When you haven't listened to Horner scores in the last few years, why do you comment Horner threads in a message board?

[Trent B 354]

Because he has the right to.

[Ollie 1,375]

When you haven't listened to Horner scores in the last few years, why do you comment Horner threads in a message board?

Because I can and want to express my opinion.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

It's not like you have a poor memory.

[Ollie 1,375]

Plus you can sample sound clips of his current works as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

Yeah, you can make a very valid observation about a complete film score based on 30 second streaming sample cues.

[Ollie 1,375]

No there are places where you can go to the music section and actually listen to entire CDs or at least get more than a 30 second clip, plus you can watch the movie and hear the music in it.