The Doctor Who Thread.....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Everything else looks like Holby City, so Doctor Who through no fault of its own basically looks like a hospital drama with robots.

The transition to 1080 a few years ago and the generally better quality of CGI helped though.

Also, have you ever seen classic Who, a low budget ropey-ness is kind of in it's DNA anyway.

[Quintus 6,499]

Lee, if you arent a true Geek, then this really isnt your show. Capaldi or not.

Remewmber Doctor Who is the original geek show, older even then Star Trek.

Actually, I read a warmly written tribute piece this week which contradicts that notion, Steef:

“The thing about Doctor Who is it’s not like a nerdy sci fi show,” says Magee of the show’s broad appeal. “It’s not Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica; it’s a family show. I watched it as a kid with my family.”

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/nov/21/australians-grew-up-with-doctor-who

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Lee, if you arent a true Geek, then this really isnt your show. Capaldi or not.

Remewmber Doctor Who is the original geek show, older even then Star Trek.

Actually, I read a warmly written tribute piece this week which contradicts that notion, Steef:

“The thing about Doctor Who is it’s not like a nerdy sci fi show,” says Magee of the show’s broad appeal. “It’s not Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica; it’s a family show. I watched it as a kid with my family.”

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/nov/21/australians-grew-up-with-doctor-who

Generally I would agree, but NOT the last two series. Very impenetrable because of fast exposition, dense plotting and an assumption that you watched the previous shows, checked the BBC website for the mini-episodes, downloaded mini-prequels from iTunes and caught up on plot threads on Wikipedia.

[Quintus 6,499]

Well at the very least the Beeb should be praised for taking those sorts of chances. Normally with prime time productions you only find trust in the audience to not be stupid on HBO and AMC. In fact one could definitely argue that the BBC is braver still - because Doctor Who is no premium cable subscription production; it's completely mainstream.

Which in a way is wonderfully ironic.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Do we now have all the regenerations between all of the doctors? The regeneration to Eccleston seemed very abrupt and odd, they should at least showed his face coming through (using a clip from Series 1 like they did with him in the tardis).

Who was Tom Baker supposed to be???

The John Hurt generation just seemed to come out of a desire from the producers to finally pinpoint the transition to the ninth...or now the tenth Doctor...Urgh, this is gonna be confusing.

Tom Baker was obviously supposed to be The Fourth Doctor.

Well at the very least the Beeb should be praised for taking those sorts of chances. Normally with prime time productions you only find trust in the audience to not be stupid on HBO and AMC.

I agree, but I'm not always fond of the execution.

Doctor Who is done by the same people who do Sherlock. Imagine an 90 minute episode of Sherlock edited down to 45 minutes?

That's a Moffat written Doctor Who a lof of the time.

[Quintus 6,499]

Well, it's better to be too ambitious than not at all I guess. In theory...

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Well, it's better to be too ambitious than not at all I guess. In theory...

We shall see next year when you start watching it and complain that you dont understand what happened!

Maybe Capaldi speaks slower then Matt Smith. That might help

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

But didn't they show Tom Baker regenerate years ago, how did he become older?

ooohhh...wibbley wobbly timey whiney!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

I think it was better than RTD worked on the overall plot and Moffatt could do his clever little episodes.

Moffat's very complicated plotting style works better in smaller doses. It felt more special in the RTD era.

Ah yes. But he's sort of believably the same doctor. Tom Baker is 'supposed' to be the an older version of the doctor which makes little sense.

Which is why they didnt really weave him into the actual plot and why they didnt state outright atht that was the fourth Doctor. It's a cameo for the fans, obviously. It's not really supposed to make sense.

[Quintus 6,499]

Well, it's better to be too ambitious than not at all I guess. In theory...

We shall see next year when you start watching it and complain that you dont understand what happened!

Maybe Capaldi speaks slower then Matt Smith. That might help

Lol, you so don't know Capaldi so far. He speaks fast and broad Scottish. I hope you'll be able to follow him (I presume he's taking elocution lessons during production).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Capaldi has guest starred in both Doctor Who and it's spin-off Torchwood without his native accent. I'm sure he will be fine. (he was fantastic in both roles btw, looking forward to him)

[Quintus 6,499]

I had no idea! (and still don't!)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

I actually rather like what they did with Billie Piper here. Having her appear as just our normal Rose would be basically having her repeat old stuff. She has met both previous and future companions, and her story with the Tenth (now the Eleventh Doctor....urgh....) was concluded in Journeys End.

The way they did it here was interesting and acknowledged the importance of Rose Tyler in the Who universe.

Is LINDA that group in the episode with Peter Kay? They actually explain Davison looking older there.

That really takes me back though, reminds me of how much I loved the RTD era. I like how it's all tied together, with the titanic in the next episode and Martha (with some brilliant music) from the previous.

I was actually never a fan of those ties. One moment we see The Doctor pining over a lost companion...suddenly Catherine Tate in is the TARDIS or The Titanic....

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

The series 4 finale had all the best and worst aspects of the RTD era. Brilliant emotional moments, but also a lot of scatterbrained redundancy.

The protocol chose to take the shape of Rose because it was appealing to The Doctor to not set of the device, and chose the form of someone of particular significance to the Doctor, though not realizing that it was someone from his future.

so...I'm really the only one who dressed up for this?

[Quintus 6,499]

Yes.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

You never did see my JWfan shirt did you?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

I watched it again this morning.

It struck me how good John Hurt actually is in this. In a relatively small amount of time he creates a living, breathing character that you feel for. Hurt is great with both the scenes dealing about his impending descision, and the cool, funny commentary about his two future, but younger selfs "Can't you speak for two seconds without flapping your arms?"

The War Doctor, can be seen in some ways as a stand-in for The First Doctor, and old and cantankerous man, who would through the years change in to something both different, and not.

It's a wonderful concept and brilliantly executed. John Hurt felt like a proper Doctor.

Having said that, from a plot stand point there really doesn't seem to be any reason why The War Doctor could not have been the Eight Doctor in this story. Either McGann wasn't interested in reprising the role in this, which seems a bit unlikely considering The Night Of The Doctor of Moffat specifically wanted the War Doctor to be someone the Eight Doctor could not be.

Or possible he wanted to stick an extra Doctor in there to make sure he would still be show runner by the time they need to tackle the problem of the final regeneration.

I'm not complaining, because I loved Hurts Doctor and I doubt McGann would have acted it better.

Ruminations:

Early in the episode the letter by Elizabeth I states that The Doctor was appointed as curator of the under gallery by her in protection of her Kingdom. Since Tom Baker is seen as the Curator, and just before that the Matt Smith Doctor expresses a desire to one day become a curator, it does seem to strongly indicate that the decrepid old man with the cheeky demeanor, big teeth and naughty eyes is The Doctor. But I don't really expect them to make anything for from that angle

I havent watched enough classic Who, but the War Doctors comments about his future selfs pointing their screwdrivers at people like they were a weapon seems to indicate his previous incarnations didn't use it like that at all.

Loved the War Doctors comments when Tennant is being kissed, "Is there a lot of this in the future?" and Smith's reply. "It does start to happen."

Just one of the many meta-comments from the show about the show.

Was the shot of Clara stutting The TARDIS door with a click of her fingers just a throw away moment, or does it point to anything significant?

Some confusion about the 3D paintings. They were used by the Zygons to hide themselves, but where did they originate from? If they are Gallifreyan art how did they get in the Tower of London in the time of Liz 1. Also, since Liz 1 and the Three Doctors knew the Zygons were hiding in the paintings, waiting for the future, they could have easily prevented their escape centuries later, but yeah to wibbley wobbley I suppose....

Also, it's not clear to me how exactly the 3 Doctors got themselves in the No More painting.

Despite the cameo of Peter Capaldi's eyes, they didnt include him in the final shot.

And speaking of that. While the revived series faithfully uses the immortal Ron Grainer theme for it's credits, it has NEVER used it in an actual episode. If there was ever a shot that begged for a full statement of it it was this one!

[Matt C 605]

As one who sporadically watches the show, it felt choppy and haphazard in places -- like BBC accelerated production to have this done for the 50th Anniversary of the show. The first 10 minutes really stood out in a bad way, editorially.

That said, it was worth it getting Tennant, Smith, and John Hurt there. Moffat's writing really shines in those scenes, but not so much during the flashbacks of the Great War. It was impressively mounted for a TV production, but the slow-mo scenes of Hurt firing the weapon and the Daleks chanting was unintentionally funny.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

but the slow-mo scenes of Hurt firing the weapon and the Daleks chanting was unintentionally funny.

That's basically Doctor Who for ya, always existing between the sophisticatingly brilliant and the naff.

As for feeling choppy and haphazard....that's normal for the show these days.

[Incanus 5,891]

I wish they had included Sylvester McCoy cameo but perhaps that would have been one Doctor too many for this episode.

First shot of Peter Capaldi was a nice quick wink in the middle of all the bustling action.

[Wycket 36]

Day of the Doctor just shows why I like Moffat so much more than RTD.

If Davies was still in charge, everyone and everything we've ever seen in Doctor Who would have been in this episode and it would have just been a live action clip show rather than a nice story to celebrate the fiftieth. Instead, we get a Moffat episode that is big in scope, but still small in scale which allows for more intimate scenes between the actors and characters. While I was somewhat disappointed that the Zygon subplot at least didn't get some on screen resolution at the end, I felt the episode delivered exactly what it needed to without descending into madness like the Davies specials did after the first couple of seasons.

What were people's thoughts on An Adventure in Space and Time?

I thought it was a great tribute to the classic series and want more of these to cover other eras. Just imagine one covering Tom Baker's run on the show or JNT's tumultuous time as show runner? Gatiss is very hit and miss for me, but he did a wonderful job paying tribute to the classic series and those that brought it to life. The best part is that we now have a working version of the 60s set able to be used in Doctor Who proper now. It would have been great to pop up in the DotD as they're switching about through their TARDIS', but I'm confident we'll see it down the road. Great to have that set up and working again.

[Matt C 605]

It's a web comedy series, but it has Doctor Who in it. (And released after the 50th Anniversary special aired.)

Alastair Murden is a pretty good Doctor. It's obvious he's channeling Matt Smith, but he's spot-on. Wouldn't mind seeing him get a crack at the role after Capaldi steps down.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Cool! But you are paying a lot considering series 1 to 4 werent even shot in HD.

[BloodBoal 8,711]

[Jay 46,245]

What the heck is the point of releasing this and having it not including The Day of the Doctor and The Time of the Doctor? I guess just cause they want it on shelves before Christmas...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Weird. Just a few days till the Fall of the Eleventh (actually Twelfth) Doctor and all seems quiet.

Remember all the hype that led up to The End Of Time? For months the BBC has spend a huge amount of marketing time and effort on The Day Of The Doctor, and right now the final adventure of Matt Smith seems like kind of an afterthought...

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

No, the BBC probably blew their allotted budget on advertising the 50th anniversary special.

Remember they are a publicly funded network.

[KK 3,313]

That's because people only care about David Tennant, at least that's what BBC probably thinks.

Pssh no. At the moment, global audiences favour Matt Smith.

David Tennant is my favourite though.

I'm thinking of pulling a marthon soon like Steef did, just for the sake of it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Pssh no. At the moment, global audiences favour Matt Smith.

David Tennant is my favourite though.

Didnt a recent poll declare David Tennant most fav Doc ever?

Matt Smith is very popular globally though.

I'm thinking of a pulling marthon soon like Steef did.

Plenty of Kleenex, and alternate hands....

[KK 3,313]

David Tennant is England's favourite. He basically brought the franchise back to life and back to the spoitlight. But it was Matt Smith, or his tenure that opened the show up to the world, primarily American audiences. I have friends who only started the show from the Moffat/Smith seasons.

I'm thinking of a pulling marthon soon like Steef did.

Plenty of Kleenex, and alternate hands....

I know I'll need it!

[Jay 46,245]

I liked Eccleson WAY more than Tennant

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

I like both. It's a pity Eccleston seems to be so very forgotten these days. Though it's partly his own fault.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Quintus 6,499]

The UK' favorite Doctor is Tennant, then Smith, then Baker. But seeing as it's bound to be a populist poll ie current, I'd say Baker is probably overall remembered most fondly in the hearts of lifelong fans. Older people really love his Doctor here.

Lee - just saw Capaldi take over the reigns. Good luck to him!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Gonna watch it now!

[Quintus 6,499]

He has a pure Doctor Who face through and through.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

Wow, that must have been near incomprehensible to a casual viewer of the show!

[KK 3,313]

Yeah. I thought it was a good farewell to Matt Smith, but the plot wasn't Steven Moffat's best. Trying to cram in references to every Doctor Who legend/myth/fable and tie up every loose end in Moffat's many over-complicated past storylines didn't really work. Not all of it made sense, but it was entertaining stuff. And Matt Smith got the goodbye he deserved. Touching stuff, but the regeneration was handled rather strangely. On that note, the explanation they had for the new regeneration cycle was rather underwhelming, considering this is one of Doctor Who's greatest show-running obstacles.

[Naïve Old Fart 13,026]

Not really. I haven't seen the Christmas special, yet, but River Song gave The Doctor her remaining regenerations. Also, in "The Five Doctors", The Master was offered "a whole new regeneration cycle" if he helped The Doctor. I'm sure it will all make sense when I see it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,392]

The River Song regrnerations were not mentioned.

I agree that Smith got a very good farewell. It's not the 15 minute cryfesf we got with Tennant, but they were never gonna beat that anyway.

Lots of loose ends were tied up here. The crack in time, the creation of The Silence, the TARDIS exploding. That was good.

But instead of stuffing all of that in one ep, i would have rather have them work up to it.

And Gallifrey? We only just learned it might have survived, and already its the resolution of a 3 series arc?

Also, if it was frozen in a single moment in time, how could the Timelords ask the oldest question? Or grant a new set of generations?

Matt Smith got to stretch himself one more time, he lookef great as an old man. But i was glad that for the final transformation we rejuvinated first.

Not sure we needed Amy to appear as a vision there. It felt redundant.

Peter Capaldi looked fearsome for some reason. Like the thick Scottish accent.

[SafeUnderHill 205]