Richard Penna

I agree that stylistically it doesn't fit at all but I like the verse melody (the chorus being Test Drive) and in general I do like electronically driven songs. Not everyone's thing though, of course. I gave S&S a re-listen after getting this set and I just couldn't find a way into it. If that song has anything to do with the score or film other than a very tenuous cultural link with the band, or some meaning of sticks and stones... I'm not hearing it. It would be like putting Radioactive on a soundtrack album for a family comedy set in Vegas. Yes, the band is from there but what do they have to do with the theme or plot of the film? None of the albums needed a song.

Oh, if loads of cues were revised then the bonus section should be as long as it needs to be to present those variations. My point was that surrounding those alternate takes within often large component cues can result in a very bloated bonus section. If you're looking at it purely as a resource for alternates you find interesting (and swapping out) then it's a good approach. I'm essentially a bit skeptical that when a cue that has (say) 5 revisions, as a composer slighty rethinks their idea, do we really need to hear all of them? This is where I put my trust in a producer to determine where a revision is musically and creatively interesting.

Sure, it very much depends on each case. It's when we're talking about lots of versions of a cue and whether the differences are noticeable enough to warrant presenting (a) all of them and (b) in separate tracks. It's very rare for me to keep bonus sections exactly as they are, simply because even the biggest fan of a score may not find every single cue interesting enough that a subtle variation is worth repeatedly hearing. I ditched a lot of the Sleepy Hollow alternates either because only a few seconds was different or because in some cases there's a good reason Elfman revised them. I suppose in the end you can have an album that plays magnificently, or one that presents all variations of everything. I don't think you can have both even from MM if the sum of revised material is approaching an entire CD. That said, bring on Last Crusade!

I kept the variations of Boston reunion and they work well purely because (and as other have said) they are all very different. That's where I support multiple alternates being included - where you're listening to such musically different approaches that they could easily be different scenes. Where I take issue a bit is including 2/3/4 (etc) versions of one cue in its entirety just to include what can be very minor changes, such as the last 30 seconds of a 5 minute cue. I don't know how playable that is - I'm personally a bigger fan of the 'alternate segment' or 'alternate end' type bonus tracks where you focus on the differences rather than opting to include many minutes of identical material back to back. For example, when Gladiator eventally happens I really hope that the opening track is the film takes of the battle sequence, with the alternate 'lament' section (with Gerrard's vocal) being its own 90 second or so 'alternate end' track, and not the entire 11+ minute track all over again. Given that recording sessions often contain multiple takes of a cue that only have tiny performance-based differences, I'm going to suggest a no doubt extremely debatable view that aside from the final film takes (or intended, for unused ones) of every cue, we don't need literally every variation of every cue a composer wrote. I'd love a FotR Matessino set but I'm sure we don't want every variation of every cue Shore recorded. We have to trust the producer to pick the most different and relevant alternates. I have no doubt that for many here, being given a HDD with literally every single take recorded at the sessions would be a dream, and you'd have fun putting it together into a mega-complete four-CD set, but I wonder if you'd focus so heavily on wanting an ultra deluxe, definitive set, that you'd create something that would actually get a bit repetitive.

Clear hierarchy of the songs for me. Where No One Goes is awesome, Together From Afar is just barely interesting enough to keep, but Sticks and Stones has about as much business being on a soundtrack album as I See Fire (i.e., bugger all). One simple change would make all three at least a passing interest, and only the second one does it - use Powell's theme.

Never seen them Unless you're implying that Gia is 'some other guy' doing a generic score, you're stretching my argument a tad

Is there something specific about Brainstorm that would cause Townson to kibosh an expansion in the first place? Like, is it considered to be a lesser score in Horner's ouvre or a more experimental one? It's clear that he felt a number of scores weren't of a calibre to be released on his precious label, but why this score?

And what I've seen of Robin Hood suggests it was a somewhat pointless film and didn't do Crowe a whole load of good PR for his mocked accent. But I don't really see what harm the existence of that film does, even if marketed as KoH 2. Scott's reputation as a bankable director might be affected for a bit, but for those of us who liked Streitenfeld's score (and I know there are very few of us), we got something good from it. Hence my overall perspective is I don't understand what drives anger in response to a film that doesn't have any immediately evident reason to exist... just don't give them your money. Is it really just people who don't want a director or classic film's reputation tarnished? I have to admit I don't share those concerns because I don't really care what the masses think of my favourite movie. I thought Jurassic World was the biggest pile of shit I'd seen in a while, and plenty of people think JP/// is really stupid, but that doesn't affect opinions of the classic first movie, does it?

Is someone new ever really an unacceptable continuation of a franchise though? As long as the score they write isn't outright bad. I could understand more with perhaps Toy Story where a departure from Newman's jazzy sound would be very noticeable, and some other guy writing a more generic score without Newman's themes wouldn't be warmly welcomed.

I've seen the first one twice and I can only recall two bits of music - Nomanisone Island and Tears of Joy. Hence to me it wasn't a movie that relied on its score anywhere near as much as some Pixar movies, so I think it's good material for a composer who doesn't have much big stuff under her belt.

It's not a great idea on paper but for those that have decided it's a terrible idea, period: don't watch it. There's far too much shit, sequels and spinoffs being made to spend your time worrying about a favourite franchise or sacred film being ruined by a bad sequel. HGW hasn't exactly been on fire lately in my book but what if Scott gets a career highlight from him? Early indications for RoP weren't good in a lot of people's minds (and in my mind, somewhat accurate) but look at the score we got.

My recollection (from reports here) is along those lines; that he thought it was a silly movie. However, as you say it may not be directly the movie itself, but also what he went through - the suggestions that his schedule only really allowed him to score part of the movie and Sommers ended up forcing him to write the whole score anyway. That's generally going put him in a bad mood, particularly if he thought the movie was stupid. I usually come to this score first as an example of movies where a composer wrote a properly good score for a movie they thought of negatively some degree.

Yes, this feels extremely relevant not only from a collaboration perspetive (i.e. with SS's workflow JW had no shortage of scoring work) but specifically in this collaboration both SS and Lucas wanted exactly what Williams offered - traditional, slightly old fashioned, well-treated in the film (... mostly) so not only is Williams thriving creatively, but enjoys working with them. Most composers don't get that sort of consistency. Elfman comes closest I guess.

I'd welcome a Zimmer return because either he would like the film and be inspired to write a good score, or, if the film's not great, get some minions to do most of the work, and minions are sufficiently low in the food chain as to want to impress Scott with good music. Plus good composers work with bad movies all the time and go in with a mindset of improving it or helping the director/friend out. I dont think there's a need to assume everything about this sequel will be terrible. (unless of course you want it to be)

I reckon fans do this far more than the composers consider themselves competing. Sure, there will be projects or positions where a composer is frustrated that they didn't land the job, or the opposite, where they decide they don't like the look of a film and decide not to do it, but no fan community will never know the entire story of these circumstances. After all, the good old 'schedule conflict' is code for pretty much any other, more private reason.

It's been years since the discussion with the post-Townson Varese guys about aborted releases, and a desire to see some titles out. Must be something about Brainstorm that is really complex (or makes it not possible at all) given how many titles have flown out since 2020 or so. And of course, I'm not letting a 'grail' thread be without my routine whine about JP /// I think FotR is the only one that needs a ground-up rebuild from the sessions, including major alternates and theatrical versions where appropriate - something that would rival the Hook set without breaking a sweat. Although I don't think we need literally everything recorded, and this score is pretty much my #1 score. TTT and RotK are assembled with a different mindset, and really the only issue I have with those is the lack of properly released alternates and theatricals. Hopefully Shore isn't in a mindset where he feels the CRs are enough and he's moved on.

Reminds me of the reports of Goldsmith remarking about his negative experience on The Mummy during a London concert, for which there aren't any solid contemporary reports of exactly what he may have said. A very stark contrast with something like the Schweiger/Horner interview which has some very candid material and obviously no issues with attributing the remarks. In general we probably need more verifiable sources than some random FSMer.

I'm seeing this project a bit more optimistically than the vibe here. We don't know anything about whatever story/characters might have made Scott decide it was worth doing, and even if it does suck completely, it raises a possibility of another good epic Roman score. Given Zimmer's not doing it and Scott's musical tendencies have moved on, a Gladiator-esque score without the synths were, I thought, what some people wished the first one was. And if the whole thing sucks? Move on with your day...

Just want to say, I'd like to echo the positive vibe in this thread has, because I'd normally expect a post like this to be torn apart in 5 seconds flat by angry villagers who can't believe you've ranked something/someone above Williams. But they haven't (yet) and it speaks to the mature tone of this thread that you can have a view that goes a bit against the JWFan grain but is nonetheless honest and driven by different tastes. I too love LotR and HTTYD as a whole more than anything in SW - they came along at the right time for me, just like SW came along at the similar point for others.

The part across all 3 scores that always made me anticipate greatness is the openings, and This Is Berk set the standard, but I love how all 3 movies start slightly differently, with #2 starting more dramatic, leading into a reminder suite that is Dragon Racing. Then Busy Berk is one of my favourite openings ever with that build-up at 4:03 going into the full orchestral Berk theme in a 'one last time' sort of way - the detail in the brass and woodwinds as the Berk theme starts - that's a composer having fun. #2 takes an honourable second place due to the extensive Alpha and Valka theme usage, but the mature sound of #3, and the fact that he's using all his themes together - with the long-lined and choral statements of the new themes. That and The Hidden World is so unusual that it caused someone who isn't into soundtracks to comment that it was a beautiful piece in the car just after it came out. My main issue is I have to be careful not to overlisten. I got a bit saturated with Romance In The Clouds on the OST (even had the main buildup as my ringtone for a bit) so I still have to step back a bit sometimes and pay more attention to some of the less prominent tracks now and again.

Those are the original hits but I've found many in #2 and 3 that are suggestive of longer term classics. Although Romantic Flight will always be known as one of the first 'wow' cues.

While that's obviously a valid and shared view (although I don't agree at all, and I sense that our tastes are very different) I don't think the comparison is relevant to how the scores are treated on album. But I get a sense that fewer composers are in the mindset of excessive editing on OSTs, partly because anyone who's gotten into scoring within the last 5-10 years or so has started work in a world where the capacity of a CD isn't anywhere near as important as it was, and all the AFM fee rubbish for initial score releases has been put to bed. And since we now get huge albums dropping digitally and more TV shows are getting near compete releases, we're more looking at trims here and there for tidiness, but not edits that change the fundamental composition. LotR was mentioned recently - clearly Shore had to work with an editor on those because if he just selected whole cues and plopped them on disc, you'd fill up a CD after only a large handful - a score of that size either needs a lengthy release (more than a CD) or needs a heck of a lot of material removed to allow him to put a variety of ideas on the album. I think LotR also indicates that evolving editing technology is less important than the abilities and care of the editor - no one's ever complained about poor quality of edits, despite that they were done over 20 years ago.

The second benefits from its expansion most imo, as it's got the most missing (~20 mins). Although in context of the FYC promos, the DEs aren't presenting mountains of new, unheard material like we get with a lot of other Varese DEs. My main highlight of #2 was actually hearing the Where No One Goes arrangements, with the rest of the set largely being a remastered, official version of the promo which I'd adopted as my default playlist many moons before we even know these were coming. I'd actually say the OST for Hidden World is perfectly sufficient if you're a very casual follower of these scores, and it's a really good listening presentation. Those of us with a stronger connection get a nice remaster, a proper C&C presentation and 10 minutes or so of extra music. (Plus the demos, although they're generally a short term curiosity for me)

I'd give the DE of the second a go before firming your opinion. They may just not be your thing, but the first score is the least refined and balanced of the three, with a lot of action/chaos music. #2 has a lot more variety in its sound. Although I'm on your side with how bombastic his music can be. I struggle to listen to Solo in large quantities - great score but very loud and busy. But to your first point, I echo the 'yes'. Most live action films would dream of scores of this quality and thematic depth - they completely outgrow a kids' animation series. And I've stated before but in my personal view, Powell has a talent with underscore types of cues where they are never boring or static even for dull dialogue scenes; something I think he does better sometimes even than (angry villagers incoming) Williams.

Oh, the bit I realised on clicking the link is that there only exists a live recording and they need funding to clear it legally, edit and master it to be suitable for release, and to record some pickups to clean up a few bits. I'd imagine a lot of fans would be fine with just the recording from the day, audience noises and all, but if they end up being able to raise the full amount to do it properly, great.