Jacck

I suppose these are Star Wars fans over music fans.

Elfman wrote those lyrics as an afterthought and had the idea completely by himself, according to a recent interview he gave. Mainly as an idea for them to be used on the end credits to replace the chorus without lyrics, which Tim Burton allowed, apparently (haven't seen the film yet). He said he became obsessed with the idea of 'covertly' creating the lyrics and getting them recorded, so I suppose that explains why all those reprises are in the soundtrack.

Goldsmith was able to create very effective high energy, masculine, powerful action cues that usually included some really nice counterpoint writing and interplay between parts (brass especially). As well as some mind blowing chromaticism (Planet of the Apes, Total Recall, etc.). Williams probably didn't always match Goldsmith in terms of energy in his action writing, but the craftsmanship goes way beyond Goldsmith in my opinion.

He can read and write music, so this report confuses me.

Intelligent thematic action scoring died with Jerry Goldsmith! Williams is still alive, isn't he?

Features some footage from the Alice scoring sessions.

Elfman's entire style has always had that 'wonderland' feel about it. Especially when it comes to him collaborating with Tim Burton. I didn't expect that it would, or even should be stylistically much different from his other wonderland scores, and in a way I'm glad that it isn't. For me, the clips sound absolutely brilliant. I didn't have what I would probably consider 'unrealistic' expectations of what it might be stylistically, so I'm not disappointed. Why shouldn't Elfman have done what he does best for a film that is so well suited to that style. All I really expected was for it to be well crafted, with lots of magic, energy, and a memorable theme. I already have that theme stuck in my head... Elfman's clever melodic writing and memorable, unique harmonic progressions have always been one of the strong points of his writing. So I guess it depends on what you expect as to how much enjoyment you'll get out of the score. If you're expecting Elfman to completely reinvent himself and take a contemporary approach, as opposed to a 'traditional' approach on a film that is a perfect opportunity for Elfman to demonstrate his wonderland style of scoring, mastered and nearing perfection, then you're probably going to be disappointed. It sounds like Elfman has really mastered getting the orchestration to sound very polished and Hollywood now. It's nice to hear. That alone, coupled with his own style and themes will, I suspect, make it a very enjoyable score for me. When it all comes together it seems to have such a genuine child-like energy, an excitement and sense of massive adventure that's all very exciting.

I think we're going to hear a new generation of composers over the next decade who borrow from, or rather pay homage/pastiche to Williams' contemporary approach heard in scores like Minority Report, Star Wars RotS, and, especially War of The Worlds. I certainly consider WotW to be an influential score. Also, I think Don Davis did something for The Matrix that worked wonderfully, done so with a very contemporary approach. I'm not sure if I can say that those 3 scores have been influential yet, but I imagine upcoming generations of composers will have spotted those scores and found motifs and orchestrational ideas to pick apart. Also, Marco Beltrami has kept Jerry Goldsmith's style alive, although again, he's contemporized it in favour of electronics and sharp sounding orchestral gestures that hold some sort of production value these days. People mistake that for Zimmer-ness, but I think it's an individual approach that shouldn't particularly be considered a derivative of Zimmer and his chums' style. As for Howard Shore being influential, I'm not so sure about that one. Not that I know the LotR scores particularly well, but it just seems like rehashed Wagner-esque, epic, operatic music rather than anything particularly contemporary or innovative. Giacchino - great composer, but to me it's mostly very well done homages to pre 90's scores. I suppose that makes him influential, as he's proven that that style can still work in modern film.

Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow comes to mind.

I think he's a very efficient, effective Hollywood composer. He's able to produce scores that hold a very high production value, therefore making a film feel more expensive. Perhaps not the most original composer out there. Some of his stuff I love, but mostly it's 'just film music' really. I had the 'love' theme (or whatever it's supposed to be referred to as) from Bruce Almighty in my head for a while, but then realised it was a massive rip-off of Silvestri's heart-warming theme from Castaway. I thought what he did on Sin City was great.

Wonderful. I really hear the influence of Don Davis in the score. We know he orchestrated parts of the score, but I wonder if he had a bit more influence on it than just orchestrating?

Pretty awesome if it was deliberate!

Music by Douglas Pipes. Met him once and we had a chat about his score for Monster House. Really good music!

It's called marketing. It sounds OK. People are always impressed by VSL, but it's not really that great in my opinion. I would never use it for the bulk of the orchestra - the way it's recorded just can't match the sound of instruments recorded in a proper orchestral acoustic environment. EWQL SO is pretty great for this, although some of the brass sounds a bit dodgy and fake. But if you know the library well, it's easy to find the right patches to get the sound you're looking for. Project SAM sample libraries are great too. Especially Symphobia, which is amazing for brass and strings. With a Todd AO Scoring stage reverb patch loaded into Altiverb and some mastering tweaks in iZotope Ozone for finishing touches! I'm tempted to do a few Williams demos with EWQL and Project SAM (and maybe VSL here and there) to show what kind of results one can achieve if sample libraries are mixed together. Would be a fun little task and a great opportunity to study Williams' scores and learn more about some of his masterful works.

*bump* I say we should do this! 1. Dark Lord Ascending and Avada Kedavra! (Hedwig’s Theme) 2. Grievances (Dumbledore’s Hymn) 3. The Chosen One (Harry’s Theme) 4. Dark Forces (Voldemort’s Theme) 5. The Raging War 6. The Seven Potters 7. Fallen Heroes 8. Ministry Uprising 9. The Master of Death 10. Horcruxes 11. Wedding Bells 12. Kreacher 13. Confrontation with Lupin 14. Return to the Ministry (featuring Professor Umbridge) 15. Ron’s Departure 16. Godric’s Hollow (featuring A Window to the Past) 17. Help from a Silver Doe & Destroying the Locket 18. Dark Times Ahead & End Credits SO many ideas.. I feel inspired.

No, I'm pretty sure Maurizio, MSM, and Jack were being serious. They're just very misguided. You absolute cretin! If you understand how to read scores, then there shouldn't be anything up for debate here. All the evidence is in the sketch scores to prove my point. Why do so many people here defend what they *think* they know so strongly that they end up being offensive toward other members? It's only going to drive the sane members away and this place will end up becoming a putrid group of narcissistic bastards with superiority complexes.

I think that's just a coincidence and in actuality, a deliberate decision was probably made solely by Williams to 'refresh' his style.

*dump*

How is it obvious? Williams rarely uses orchestrators as much more than glorified copyists and his sketches are always very detailed and contain the majority of the orchestration in the condensed score already. So what would lead you to believe that Pope has even wrote any segments of music in Williams' scores? I know that he at least orchestrated all of his concerti himself, and I suspect that the majority of his other concert works were orchestrated solely by Williams as well.

Apart from the obvious Williams rips, I hear blatant Don Davis Matrix-esque rips in Main Title Sleepwalking as well... Seems like because he's orchestrated for high profile composers he thinks he can use it as an excuse to completely rip other composers' work! The Williams rips are especially so blatant. Minority Report and WotW definitely in here and not too far from note-to-note in places.

Sounds fun! If only I'd read the book...

Aunt Marge's Waltz is an entertaining piece, but it's not much more than a Rossini pastiche to be brutally honest.

I do remember a few minor differences in orchestration here and there. The "Droids" (Dune Sea) piece had a little more constant rhythmic backing if I remember correctly (some constant 1/8th violin pizz. notes here and there). Also, there was a transition into The Cantina band which was probably new (it wasn't anything interesting though - a note that held for a little longer and then Cantina Band pops out of nowhere). There was definitely nothing drastic though - a massive press exaggeration there, really. I'd be surprised if Williams spent longer than a week on it tbh. None of the music was "new", and 95% of it was exactly as we've heard it before.

Woo! Just got back from The O2. It was a good concert. I wasn't extremely blown away by it, although it was an exhilarating experience (how could it not be). The orchestra were very good (not perfect - trumpets sometimes split the partials on higher notes and the orchestra felt a little loose at some points). The pieces were all taken at tempi pretty near exactly as Williams conducts them on the soundtracks, except TIE Fighter Attack and The Asteroid Field which were a little slower. Also, the beginning minute or so of Princess Leia (the delicate winds before the theme is introduced) was very rushed. I spoke to one of the viola players after - he said that rehearsals were rushed and they had barely a week to rehearse it all. He said the RPO were used to playing the end credit suites but things like Across the stars and the asteroid field were new to them. He said he thoroughly enjoyed himself though as is of course always the case with orchestras playing Williams' music. In terms of music selection it was a pretty standard selection of the major cues. The on-screen visuals were pretty bog standard. There was a main centre screen and two portrait rectangular screens either side which would sometimes show close-ups of the orchestra (mainly horns and solo instruments when they were playing). The lighting was very impressive though - brilliantly synchronised with the music and made it pretty exciting at some points (end of The Forest Battle was amazing)! Was quite disappointed with the way the amplification was mixed/presented. The choir (they sang in DoTF and BoTH) were almost inaudible from where I was sitting, which was a real shame. At the interval I mentioned to my friend how disappointed I was that I couldn't hear them and she was surprised to hear that a choir was even there singing. Oh yeah, there were some parts cut from certain cues that I was unhappy about. One that really miffed me is a part in the Brother and Sister cue (Luke and Leia or whatever it's called). The segment where the violins are playing espress soli. and eventually rise to a note which becomes the tonic and the theme comes back beautifully. That violin section soli was massively truncated which is ANNOYING. It's a beautiful piece of writing and I don't understand why it was truncated like that. Anthony Daniels was brilliant - he motivated the audience a lot, and injected a lot of humour into the concert. He's a great public speaker - a very passionate man. As for the atmosphere and the crowd - it was quite geeky. Mostly Star Wars geeks and the concert felt like it was definitely pandering to that kind of audience rather than classical musicians or passionate film music fans. A couple of crappy photos: Quite tired now. G'night!

1) John Williams 2) Jerry Goldsmith 3) Don Davis (Deserves an entry) 4) Danny Elfman 5) James Newton Howard 6) James Horner 7) Alan Silvestri 8) Thomas Newman 9) Howard Shore 10) Hans Zimmer