airmanjerm

Here's a tune performed by Raymond Scott--Powerhouse. That's John Williams' dad on kit:

Interesting so far Koray...and sorta funny that I popped in here, since I just got an assignment yesterday for an arrangement for vocalist of Tom Waits' "The Briar and the Rose." Nice chart.

Last time I checked, the quality of a film score wasn't measured by whether or not you could whistle the themes.... Just as a side note, the Academy's rules for the Best Score award include this: "The work’s eligibility shall be evaluated on its effectiveness, craftsmanship, creative substance and relevance to the dramatic whole." It's all subjective, but that's a big one.

Well, he writes for "Entertainment Weekly" so, yeah, he has about as much credibility as an internet troll....

How did this guy get a job writing about music? He can hate Williams for all I care, but this one is just plain stupid. "...you could literally assign any of them to any one of Steven Spielberg's movies." Oh really, Mr. Music Critic? Literally? Because we all know that just as Oscar Schindler is writing out his list, we're all on the edge of our seats hoping...wishing....that he could just put more of his workers on there....the tension is building...just one or two more.... and then..... BOOM TIZZ!!!! Raider's March! "I COULD HAVE SAVED MORE!!!" That's heroic music, right? And so interchangeable! ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO ROTFLMAO

I'm also a fan of Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra. It's more "chase" music, but still lots of fun!

That was the picture I was also talking about and is from sometime the late 90's. Wow, that's crazy...I remember the article (which was definitely written in November, as they were talking about the two upcoming films) describing his studio and all, as if the photo was from right then. Oh well...I doubt he's gotten rid of the microphones, I'm sure he'd still have them there for the same reason he had them way-back-when in the 90s.

Well, when you've got a guy saying "OMFG I am working on a major project right now and came across something on the tapes that blew me away...totally unsuspected and unfrigginbelievable! 2:20 of film music history that, if I am correct, was most likely only heard by 5 or 6 people EVER! Fingers crossed that the powers that be let us include this found track on this uber cool release!", what should we expect? The Social Network complete score? (Wow, cool down... Don't get your hopes too high, gentlemen!) Well, that would certainly "blow me away!" (haha) But no BloodBoal, not saying it won't be big, sorry! I'm sure it's huge, but I think we'll all believe it to be the greatest, most amazing cue from whichever score we each personally want most. Then when it turns out to be anything else, we'll be disappointed. Just from a "getting-your-hopes-up" standpoint. Not saying it won't live up to MV's astonishment. And Miguel, I can't find the article (which was from around the 25th of November), but I did at least find the photo itself.

Let me see if I can dredge it up...I remember that it was a little small on the website, and wished it would have had a "click here to enlarge" option.

I've noticed that...he still has them in the last picture I saw a couple weeks ago in an article about (I think) War Horse. I also agree with Jason that we're probably making this out to be bigger than it will.

I hate to jump on the speculation bandwagon, but if I must... I don't have a clue how to speculate on what film it might be, but since Hook seems to be the big guess, I'll throw out a few ideas. If it is a demo from Hook, there's a few things it could be. Since the film was an "aborted musical," it's possible that the demo is a piano-demo that was intended for pre-production: lyrics to be written, choreography to be...well, choreographed, and the demo used as a rehearsal for whoever would be singing to it. That's pretty common for musicals. The tune at the beginning ("We Don't Wanna Grow Up") is only piano and children's choir (although that one is a good bit shorter), so it's not crazy to think it could be an aborted song from the musical, which may have featured other piano-only songs. I guarantee you that somewhere, those children singing that song had a piano demo to practice with, and/or a rehearsal pianist. Also, the cue "Banning Back Home" is right around 2:20 and is so different from the rest of the score, I wonder if it could be an earlier, alternate version? Maybe even the same basic tune, just a piano-only demo instead of the full jazz combo? Or possibly an entirely different cue. The corollary to me is that I don't think JW does demos...which leads me to think that if it IS a JW cue, the pre-production musical-rehearsal idea would make at least some sense? That would be why it's actually recorded. I think that when JW does a "demo" for Spielberg, it's usually a little more casual (as someone said), at his piano, and probably wouldn't have been (professionally) recorded. May not be from that film, or even by Williams....just some thoughts on if it were to actually be a cue from Hook.

This is just ridiculous, and I don't believe in superstition, but: Last night my wife and I were hanging out after putting the baby to sleep. We had "Frasier" on TV just for background noise. I was thumbing through the forums here and saw the announcement/comment from MV about "what magical land will we visit next," etc. At that moment I glanced up from the phone at the TV, and at the bottom of the TV the channel had a little graphic that said "Next up: Hook." I'd say that's a sign, right?

He knows it's not a personal attack, I just had a junior high moment. But while we're on the subject, the human torch was denied a bank loan....

Sorry...

The way you worded it...

I know what you mean, but I can't help but giggle just a little at your verbage....

Since that score to "You Are Welcome" was recorded by members of the Air Force Band that was stationed there at the time (and Williams was a member of it during that period), I may be able to see if our Air Force Bands historian can inquire about it. They may be more willing to loan it out (or make a copy) if there's something like that behind the request. If nothing else, tell the dude they should put it up on their YouTube channel (if they have one) and watch how fast they draw viewer hits...

Sorry I can't help you out more with your actual question, but just to have a completely geek moment, I'll add that most of that music was more Renaissance music than Medieval. Medieval was typically modal music and such...the types of harmonies in the period music of POA didn't really come around widely until around the 15th or 16th centuries. Then again, some history texts do combine the two. Don't mean to geek out over something silly, but if you do a search for "Medieval Music Professionals" to research your question, you may end up with tons of groups that sing Gregorian Chant (Plainchant) instead of what you're looking for. Try searching for Renaissance Period musicians or "Period Musicians" and that may get you some different results.

Filmmusic, Could you get this in lossless please? Preferably without sound effects?

Well, to get really hip deep in the theoretical aspects of John Williams' writing would take up an entire thread unto itself. Oh wait, we already did that this past summer! lol I'd suggest go read through this thread, and it would be about the same information that we could use to answer your original post/question: http://www.jwfan.com...l=&fromsearch=1 Other than that, I'll just say that you should learn about the different types of harmonic styles out there. I listed them earlier, but they include major, minor, modes, octatonic/diminished harmonies, pentatonic and hexatonic, mediant relations (moving in thirds), whole-tone/augmented harmonies, pandiatonicism, quartal and quintal harmonies, compound and mirror harmonies, serial and 12-tone atonality (no, they're not the same thing), aleatoric writing, and many more. Each one has their own specific qualities, traits, and overall sound, and Williams is quite adept at picking the harmonic style that matches the feel of what he's trying to create. For example: he's a big fan of the octatonic scale and diminished harmonic technique. In this style, the scale is built on alternating whole-steps and half-steps. In this way, each triad of the scale is a diminished chord. You can also form four major chords out of the available pitches. Williams uses this harmonic style very often in battle/chase music - your "assignment" is to go check out "The Battle in the Snow" from The Empire Strikes Back - it makes great use of this technique, and is a great example of how you can create tension through just harmonic language alone. In that style, you can frequently have note "clashes" that don't create the urge to resolve individually, but allow you to create lengthy sections of "static tension." FInally, I'll say this about entering notes into Finale by hand - you're better off for it, at least for now. Entering the notes like that makes you think about them more as individual entries. One former composition professor made me take a microfilm of Holst's First Suite for Band and copy it out, by hand (no computer!)...every note. Sounds futile, but to this day I can tell you mounds about how Holst voices trombones, splits octaves in a woodwind section, etc. Even if you're just writing a little scale run in the woodwinds or strings, it's important to consider a lot there - what note do you start on? What's the highest note? Do you need just 4 notes or 11 of them to make the flourish sound like an actual flourish instead of a melodic line? A piano keyboard would be great to have, but don't think for a moment that you aren't learning something by having to consider the individual importance of each entry you make. [sorry for the diatribe.]

Hi Ethan, Without getting too much into theory and all that, I'll say that one reason I've always found Williams' music to be special is because he has mastered the art of writing in the styles he's asked to create. He's not the only one who can do this, but he's fantastic at it. For example, ask Williams to create a "jazzy-sounding number" for your film, and ask him to write in the style of a 1930s big band swing. He'll come up with something that is written the way it would have been written in the 1930s. He doesn't just know enough to sorta, maybe, kinda make it sound about right...he knows the ins-and-outs of the various styles (not just jazz, of course), and actually creates a real work in the style he's asked to provide. For the jazz music, for example, he'll know what instruments to write for, the style, how the chords should progress, the voicings of the chords, how to write the bass line (walking vs. arpeggiated?), down to the way the notes should be articulated. He knows not to voice chords in 4ths, because they didn't voice chords like that in the 1930s. He knows how to voice a saxophone section in closed voicings, and that the bari sax often doubles the lead alto sax an octave lower. He knows how to do those things - and a zillion other little things like that - because he's studied (and performed) them. And you don't learn how to voice chords by playing with computer samples. Same goes with other styles of course, not just jazz. It's the difference between emulating a style, and actually writing in that style. Another thing he does well is knowing how to write for the actual instruments. I don't mean just that he orchestrates his own music - although that's fantastic, and certainly a wonderful aspect to his music. What I mean is that he knows the instruments of the orchestra well - more than just the ranges and transpositions! He knows how to do double stops and harmonics on the strings, multiple tonguing on the brass (and flutes, etc), tunings on the timpani, and all sorts of techniques about the whole orchestral palate. He knows which register makes the clarinet sound warm and cozy, and which register makes it sound like a shrieking cat. The reason so much of his music can come down to the quiet, up-close-and-personal level is because he can make the rest of the orchestra disappear from a trumpet solo, and it will sound amazing because he wrote a quality trumpet part. Too many composers fail at the art of subtlety because frankly, they just don't know how to write soloistically for the instruments, which limits their abilities. Too often, other composers will write a line for, let's say, the flutes. Not a melodic line, just a little scale run or a few notes to add some texture. And then they'll cut and paste it into all the oboes, two or three clarinets, and maybe even some violins. They couldn't just leave it in the flutes....no sir, that's a quality line! We should have everybody play it! (haha) When in fact, it was written for the flutes. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. But when you have everybody playing, all the time, you end up with something with about as much depth as a junior high band piece. Sorry for the multitude of miniature examples, I'm just trying to make sure you grasp the depth of what it takes to do what he does. The last thing I'll mention is texture. Sometimes you need a solo piano; sometimes you need a huge orchestra with everybody playing, and then it gets more complicated. Depending on the music, Williams will sometimes add a million layers of texture, which helps make the music sound so "big." What I mean is: some composers will write a big melody in the horns, big block chords in the low brass/strings/woodwinds, and maybe all the upper strings and woodwinds playing some rhythmic figure over and over. There you have it. Williams, on the other hand, will write his melody in (let's say) the horns, then scale runs in the strings and clarinets, then some fast, short notes in the flutes & oboes, some short, punchy notes in the low brass just to give us a firm "one and three" (or whatever), and some percussion....all at the same time. And then a few measures later he'll add the trumpets in octaves with the horns because, hey, it's getting too high. Now, I'm just generalizing an example here, but those multiple layers of texture are often what makes his music sound so big and lively. (This is more common in things like big chase scenes, etc.). Add to all that a mastery of different harmonic techniques: aside from simple major and minor, there's octatonic/diminished harmonies, mediant relations, modal writing, jazz harmonies, etc. Each of those has the ability to evoke a certain emotion or sensation when used properly. He also has a knack for picking a certain harmonic "trick" and making it be a defining factor in that score - giving that score a sort of "harmonic identity." OK, and I'll say it - Williams is certainly not the only one who has several of these techniques mastered. Howard Shore and Michael Giacchino are quite good at many of them, as was Goldsmith. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, like the rest of us. Hope that's not too much...

I was very sad to learn of his death. He was one of my composition instructors, although briefly. I will greatly miss him and his gentle manner. Interesting that the day he died (keep in mind one of his most well-known works was "Of Sailors and Whales") was also the day I received the Star Trek 4 score in the mail. He loved whales and everything to do with them. Just found that interesting. Rip Doc!

After seeing this I stopped at a FD on my way home, and...nothing. Not to be defeated, I went to another one and found the Varese collection there. It wasn't as big as the ones in photos here, but I did manage to pick up the scores to Live Free or Die Hard, Mission Impossible 3, Land of the Lost, and Shrek Forever After. None of these were anything I had dreamed of, but for $4 I couldn't pass them up. I stopped at another FD afterwards, but nothing there either.

Magic 8 ball says "Wishful Thinking" Nah just a little joking around. I haven't been very verbal about my wishes for upcoming releases, I guess I just like to see what comes out and hope there's something I find interesting. But Hook is definitely one I would love to see on The List one day. If not, I'm sure there's a reason..it's not like they don't know we want it! Ha

How about combining items and having... A HOOK Box Set!?!? (Sorry, couldn't resist! Lol)