AOTC Soundtrack Mystery: the answer?

[TownerFan 4,991]

Hi guys.

I have a thing that maybe will interest you... I'm only sorry that I retrieve an old thread here... Hope you'll not be pissed off.

A few weeks ago, I wrote an e-mail to some of the PR staff at the London Symphony Orchestra. The subject of my e-mail was the AOTC "mystery" regarding the re-use of the music from THE PHANTOM MENACE. I thought that there was no better people, other than John Williams himself, that could try to explain what really happened.

I wrote a very polite e-mail, asking some kind of explanation and if Williams recorded any new music for the scenes where PHANTOM MENACE cues were used instead.

Today I received an answer! Here it is:

> Da: Claire Northridge

> Data: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:46:42 +0100

> Oggetto: FW: Some questions about LSO and Star Wars

>

> Dear Mr Caschetto,

>

> You are right that some of the themes from the previous Star Wars film, The Phantom Menace, were used in the Attack of the Clones. No alternative music exists for the scenes in which they were used.

>

> With best wishes,

>

> Claire

>

> Claire Northridge

> Concerts Assistant

Yeah, it's a pretty short answer... but I think the source is very reliable (and why don't saying the truth? It's not a military secret!). So, now we DO know that Williams did NOT record any new music for that scenes...

I hope you enjoyed my mini-scoop.

Bye,

Maurizio

--

[Trumpeteer 302]

bawling

Well, it's just as I feared. No offense, my Lord, but I'd want to hear it from John, George, Ken (Wannberg) or Shawn (Murphy) before I take this as absolute truth.

Jeff -- who doesn't need an AOTC Ultimate Edition if this is true

[RomanticStrings 10]

She didn't say that they reused the recordings, just that they reused the themes. They could have rerecorded the themes.

~Conor

[UCFKevin 0]

Regardless, it IS the same music from TPM. It isn't redone, it's the SAME exact music.

[Miguel Andrade 1,267]

Maybe Williams never saw an edit with the final batle, thus being unable to score it, and agreeing with Lucas that he use music from TPM...

[tpigeon 3]

i think you're right about the two of them agreeing to re-use music from TPM. he may never of even seen an edit, but i just think that it had to do with his schedule. he scored MR and AOTC so close together and he would have had to compose about 125-130 minutes of music for the AOTC, which would have made it difficult to find time for MR.

at any rate, it is disheartening to hear this news, but at least we have some kind of confirmation that Lucas just didn't completely remove his score for TPM music. i never thought that was the case anyway.

and i think if they did come to an agreement then they did an excellent job of finding music that was fitting. i don't like the idea of music from another movie in that battle, but you must admit, they did a pretty good job of finding the right music. for example, the music from Anakin defeats sebulba, which was never in TPM, fit perfectly into the beginning of the battle. just my opinion.

tpigeon- who thinks it's ironic that some of the music that never made it into the final cut of TPM, ended up in AOTC and wasn't even intended for it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

I dunno....I agree with RomanticStrings. Would someone working for the LSO actually write "themes" if she was actually talking about completely developed cues? Well, perhaps she did, but it seems strange to me.

I mean, Williams *did* use "some of the themes from the previous Star Wars film" in any of his SW scores so far...

Marian - paranoid or on to something?

[tpigeon 3]

i noticed that right away too. it's weird that she said themes. i still think it's true that he didn't compose anything for the final battle, but that is interesting.

[Wickenstein 0]

Yeah, I think it's way too vague a statement to make a conclusion from. It's terrible if it's true. I'd hope that Williams would have at least have composed something to an animatic. He's done it before on other movies.

[King Mark 3,631]

I believe it because the IS around 125 minutes of new music in the film.

K.M.

[Guest]

When I heard the music in AOTC, I could clearly discern the original album version of music from TPM (under the title "Anakin Defeats Sebulba") and the alternate version of "Escape From Naboo" (with the emphasis on the added drums) present in the score for this film. And when Mace Windu makes his appearance in approaching Count Dooku, there is clearly music heard that was composed for but not used in TPM that appears in this film.

So it's not just a matter of re-using themes. Every film series does that - Superman, Batman, James Bond, Star Trek, Indiana Jones, Star Wars, etc. And it's not matter of re-scoring specific cues for sequels - for example, Ken Thorne and Alexander Courage rescoring John Williams' original Superman themes for the respective sequels they worked on. That I can live with, too. It's the re-usage of the actual musical cues from TPM that I have a problem with here for AOTC, and horribly edited at that. That I have a big problem with.

[scissorhands 16]

I think Williams thought that with AOTC could happen the same fact as with TPM: after having recorded the music, Lucas made a new editing. So, in my opinion, he decided not to compose any new music for the last battle ('cause he knew it would be terribly edited) and when the final edition was made, insert the music recorded in 1999, so as not to be re-composing the music again and again.

scissorhands - celebrating his post number 100

[Trumpeteer 302]

Just to refresh your memories: not all of that added music is from TPM. Parts are from a Star Wars video game. Re-read John Takis' minute-by-minute analysis.

Jeff -- whose anger over the addition/edit of music in the battle has shifted to indifference (it does work in the film)

[scissorhands 16]

Ooooops, I must have forgotten it. Thanks.

That music was a distraction for me. It didn't let me see the film comfortably. And this is the reason I didn't like it.

[ChrisAfonso 188]

Just to refresh your memories: not all of that added music is from TPM. Parts are from a Star Wars video game. Re-read John Takis' minute-by-minute analysis.

Jeff -- whose anger over the addition/edit of music in the battle has shifted to indifference (it does work in the film)

But the music from the video games IS from TPM, even it is unused cues.

[King Mark 3,631]

J(it does work in the film)

it works because you cant hear most of it under the sound effects unless you specifially look for it...ie..us.

K.M.

[tpigeon 3]

this is pure speculation, but i was just listening to the AOTC soundtrack and i realized something. now i know that the music on many of Williams' soundtracks isn't always in order. sometimes two cues that are nowhere near each other in the film end up right next to each other on the cd. but, for the most part, these cues usually have something to do with another and in longer sequences are uninterrupted by anything else. on to the point...

in The Arena cue on the album, which clocks in at 8:29, the music that was initially supposed to be for the execution scene runs up until about 6:50. after that, all the music was written for the tail end of the battle scenes up until Anakin and Obi-Wan get to Dooku. that segment could have easily just been put there, but it could have been put there because there was a huge gap in the film in which no music was composed. in short, at 6:55, it just picks up where the it left off in the Arena.

it could be that they decided to put those cues together because they went well. but it could also mean that Williams didn't write a single note for the battle. everything from that point on, at 6:55 on the track, everything else in the film is accompanied with orginal music if anyone noticed.

i personally think that an entire chunk was simply unscored with the agreement that appopriate battle music from TPM would be used.

[Guest]

When I am able to hear the TPM cues in the final battle scene, they do not work for me at all. It just becomes a directionless cacophony of chattering brass, timpani rolls and string tremolos. I wish there had been fully developed cues in that sequence, even if they were full cues from TPM and not just 6 and 10sec bits cobbled together.

[ymenard 54]

I'm almost sure that John really went for a "Return of the Jedi"-style end battle in Attack of the Clones. It feels the same, the way the track is developped. Really, the cue on the AOTC CD is in such similar style, that those abrupt cuts just scream for "Hey!!! I'm 100% sure there's actually 4 minutes of material that was inserted there".

Or else, why would John Williams, I mean John Williams the "leitmotiv movie master", just throw in this totally incredible Clone Battle motif and just drop it for no reason after a random cut in a random place of the cue.

imho...