GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 While i do not consider it one of Williams best works, i do think it is very good. What is your complaint about it?I don't like the overall structure of the score, I don't like the new themes. Duel of the Fates is hugely painful to listen to, even hearing a second of it gives me a headache. I would rather listen to Brad Fiedel's Terminator score, much more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 A scientificly accepted method of judging either insanity or deafness.Anakin' s theme is a fantastic, unfinished masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I've always thought Anakin's Theme was rather cheesy personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 It may be cheesy, but how can you dislike those brilliant Imperial March cameos?I love DOTF, and teh whole PM score, for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 You didn't actually think I was serious, right? I love Duel of the Fates, and Anakin's Theme! I think the score is quite good too. Me? Listen to Brad Fiedel over John Williams? Not in a million years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 you are threading on dangerous grounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 you are threading on dangerous grounds!A rolling stone is worth two in the bush. In regards to the scores, As excited as I was regarding TPM score, I am far more excited in anticipation of this new Indy outing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 You didn't actually think I was serious, right? I love Duel of the Fates, and Anakin's Theme! I think the score is quite good too. Me? Listen to Brad Fiedel over John Williams? Not in a million years. How the hell should we know? You're still a newbie. We don't know your likes and dislikes!But I'm glad (or maybe relieved is a better word) you feel that way. you are threading on dangerous grounds!Threading? You mean like with a needle??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 It's a hard comparison. Many of us were not the same people we were eight years ago (when the OST is released, it will be nine years). Some of us weren't fans of film scores; some of us have become more fanatical about Williams, film scores, and movies, others less so. Me, I've just grown up a lot. I still love film scores as much as I did then, though I think it's less of an innocent thing. Very few scores grab me the way so many did back then.As for my John Williams fan-ness, it has grown and matured, but I wouldn't say its fanatical. He is probably the only composer, however, whose music can bring me back to that childhood innocence, given the right score. Both the film and the score for Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull have already taken on something of a personal meaning to me, as I'm sure it has for others, and just the thought of it is transporting me back. I haven't found myself so childishly giddy for a film and score in quite a long time.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 How the hell should we know? You're still a newbie. We don't know your likes and dislikes!But I'm glad (or maybe relieved is a better word) you feel that way. Well, as Stefan once put it to me...."You have much to learn still...." It was Elmo that actually gave me the idea. "There's an unwritten rule in this forum. We don't call Alan (Hlao-Roo) uneducated. If you disagree, just assume he was being sarcastic and admire his insight."So now you know, I initially approached this discussion with full on sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booboobasher 0 Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I found TFM at a car boot sale at the end of the days trading for £1, I snapped it up. I think that I’ve played it once in about four years. It just does nothing for me, Probably because the film was so terrible. If we talk Star Wars music then nothing can compere to the Empire Strikes Back. I think that Williams was at his peak. This is interesting to say because Raiders was about to enter the scene. I’d say that all 3 Indy soundtracks are excellent in a parallel way the original Star Wars films were. If we separate The new film and all of it dreadful CGI effects (Oh! We will have to endure them if Star Wars 1,2 and 3 are anything to go by.) And concentrate purely on the score then id say that we are in for another TFM. Dull boring and forever in the shadows of the music from the original trilogy.That's a bit harsh, IMHO. TPM is a decent effort. There are plenty of great moments. Duel of the Fates is one of JW's best pieces ever.I agree that statement is a bit harsh. By the way the OST does suck because of the arrangement but if you edit yourself a complete intended version of the score you'll find that a lot more enjoyable. At least I know I do.Yeah I guess I do sound a bit harsh. I have a problem in as much as I have a hard time separating the terrible film from William’s efforts. Yes and if memory serves me well there are few hi lights in the score... Em ok ill give it another listen and let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artyjeffrey 20 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 After the disappointment of TPM, one can't help but be a bit apprehensive about IJ4; Back in 1999, we were naive and believed that Lucas could do it again.But maybe (and it's a BIG TIME maybe) with Spielberg involved, Lucas will not be the ALMIGHTY BEARDED ONE, and there might be a chance of a good movie. But part of me thinks it's going to be embarrassing.As for the score, no, I don't think it will be like Raiders or ToD. It'll be subdued and void of any new themes except for the repuking of Marion's Theme and the Raiders March. Really, there's no reason why it should be otherwise.The originals happened a long, long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I don't believe it will match Raiders or Doom either. But to say it will be devoid of any new themes is ridiculously negative.Unless that was some unfunny sarcasm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Spielberg has the final word on this film, doesn't he? I'm aware that some people aren't believers in Spielberg's growing filmmaking talent, but I believe that he really has grown quite a bit in the last ten years. He's definitely got potential to put together a fun adventure-ride of a movie on part with the best he's offered.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artyjeffrey 20 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I don't believe it will match Raiders or Doom either. But to say it will be devoid of any new themes is ridiculously negative.Unless that was some unfunny sarcasm...Not really. Movies have changed, as the audiences have changed, over the last million years since LC. Thus, scores have changed with it. And, as someone just pointed out, Spielberg has "developed" (or at least changed) in new directions since then. This movie, therefore, won't be like the Indys before, and the score will reflect that. In short, there was E.T.,.... and then there was War of the Worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 The stills we have seen of the new film look very old school. The cinaphotography actually looks very un-Kaminski like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I don't believe it will match Raiders or Doom either. But to say it will be devoid of any new themes is ridiculously negative.Unless that was some unfunny sarcasm...Not really. Movies have changed, as the audiences have changed, over the last million years since LC. Thus, scores have changed with it. And, as someone just pointed out, Spielberg has "developed" (or at least changed) in new directions since then. This movie, therefore, won't be like the Indys before, and the score will reflect that. In short, there was E.T.,.... and then there was War of the Worlds.When Spielberg says its shot in the same style as its predecessors, believe me, he means it. Also, consider that the original three films were noteworthy because they were made in a more classical style, as opposed the the changing visual aesthetics of 80's action-adventures.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Spielberg has the final word on this film, doesn't he? I'm aware that some people aren't believers in Spielberg's growing filmmaking talent, but I believe that he really has grown quite a bit in the last ten years. He's definitely got potential to put together a fun adventure-ride of a movie on part with the best he's offered.TedI agree. I don't believe it will match Raiders or Doom either. But to say it will be devoid of any new themes is ridiculously negative.Unless that was some unfunny sarcasm...Not really. Movies have changed, as the audiences have changed, over the last million years since LC. Thus, scores have changed with it. And, as someone just pointed out, Spielberg has "developed" (or at least changed) in new directions since then. This movie, therefore, won't be like the Indys before, and the score will reflect that. In short, there was E.T.,.... and then there was War of the Worlds.No new themes? With all this new material? And such a thematic movie...?I will bet you everything I own that there will be at least 2 new themes in Indy 4, I'm postitive there will be. I mean, there's the Crystal Skull, there's Indy's son, there's Blanchett, there may be a secondary Ravenwood theme, the Soviets, plus all the stuff we don't even know about yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I'm thrilled we're getting a new Indy score, but the anticipation of a new Star Wars score back in 1999 was considerably greater! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Hoyt 13 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 The SW scores are more legendary than the Indy scores, so the excitement level was def higher for TPM. Thats not to say that I am not highly anticipating this one. Indy is my second favorite franchise, after SW, and my excitement level is very high.trent- who still doesnt own an Indy score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I don't believe it will match Raiders or Doom either. But to say it will be devoid of any new themes is ridiculously negative.Unless that was some unfunny sarcasm...Not really. Movies have changed, as the audiences have changed, over the last million years since LC. Thus, scores have changed with it. And, as someone just pointed out, Spielberg has "developed" (or at least changed) in new directions since then. This movie, therefore, won't be like the Indys before, and the score will reflect that. In short, there was E.T.,.... and then there was War of the Worlds.I find your lack of faith disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I find your faith disturbing, actually.artyjeffrey has something of a point. Though Williams has shown the ability to "regress" into his former style somewhat with the first Potter score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I expect Williams to go halfway on this. Some of the score will be "old school," but there will also be minimalist elements. Still, I don't feel like being negative about this. It's ****in' Indiana Jones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 John Williams...minimalist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 One way that Williams has definitely changed over his years is in the activity of the music. He seems to be doing more with the music, and moved on from the days of "Raiders" and "Star Wars". So I think he will definitely write more notes than he did for "Raiders"? More than "Temple of Doom" or "Last Crusade"? Tough to say. "Temple" represents his attempt to provide as busy and loud a score as possible, while "Last Crusade" definitely seems to be more in tune with how he currently composes.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 The problem with that busy-ness is that it has become more chaotic, less melodic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Exactly. This plagues a lot of the battle music from the prequels. That's why I love the more old-school arena cue, even though its not used in the movie. I wonder if it will carry over into IJ.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Just listen to the action music in Raiders, it's so streamlined, so purposefull, not a note wasted, not a single piece of orchestration that is redundant. Just like the film itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Temple of Doom - both the film and score - represents the exact opposite, then. It's like Spielberg and Williams decided to just run amok with their talents and see how much motion and noise they can create. That's not necesarily a bad thing, as an explorations of artists' minds without limits can be fun, but they practically abandoned all sense of craftmanship and precision that they found in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Interestingly, The Last Crusade just feels like a different movie altogether; dancing between drama and comedy, while struggling to find any inspiration from the first two. Williams' score, whily busy, was also less imposing.There you have it: three movies with very different styles, visually and musically. Now they say Indy 4 will be more like Raiders, but I'm betting on a mix of Last Crusade and Temple. Raiders was just too perfect to happen again.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I cannot agree with your estimations of the quality of TOD and TLC.But i am sure Alexcremers will agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I like them both very much, but I think they represent very different visual and musical approaches. Neither of them touch Raiders, though.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I like all 3 scores exactly equally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Communist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I find your faith disturbing, actually.artyjeffrey has something of a point. Though Williams has shown the ability to "regress" into his former style somewhat with the first Potter score.How much faith does it require to believe Williams will come up with at least one new theme for Indy IV? I'm not even talking about the quality of it. Just simply the presence of at least one new theme. I'm shocked this is an issue.Maybe artyjeffrey meant there won't be any new themes on par with Marion's and the Raiders March. I can agree with that. Or that there won't be any new themes worth writing home about, or that the style with be very different. That I can understand. But to say there won't be any new themes AT ALL is just bamboozling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Of course there'll be new themes in Indy IV. Out of the last few years, the only Williams score without a recognizeable main theme or traditional use of leitmotif has been War of the Worlds, which is obviously a much different kind of project from Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Of course there'll be new themes in Indy IV.Indeed.The sky is blue, grass is green, and Indy IV will have new themes. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Skies turn grey and miserable, grass turns brown and barren....What then, Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo 0 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Of course there'll be new themes in Indy IV.Indeed.The sky is blue, grass is green, and Indy IV will have new themes. Simple as that.Duh! Obviously. There is going to new themes for the Indy IV. A new theme for the crystal skull and it mythical power. A theme for Cate Blanchett as a villian and a new march theme for the soviet army...Not the Nazis...It's the soviet army this time considering Indy IV is based in the 1950s ... Possibly more new themes apart from the ones I mentioned.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Duh! Obviously.I thought it was obvious as well.Skies turn grey and miserable, grass turns brown and barren....What then, Chris?We shall be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 You're Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 No, you're Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 John Williams...minimalist?Pretty much all of A.I. - Artificial Intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 You're Chris?No, you're Chris.In that case, I'm Dick Darlington.John- who knows Marian will get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artyjeffrey 20 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I find your faith disturbing, actually.artyjeffrey has something of a point. Though Williams has shown the ability to "regress" into his former style somewhat with the first Potter score.How much faith does it require to believe Williams will come up with at least one new theme for Indy IV? I'm not even talking about the quality of it. Just simply the presence of at least one new theme. I'm shocked this is an issue.Maybe artyjeffrey meant there won't be any new themes on par with Marion's and the Raiders March. I can agree with that. Or that there won't be any new themes worth writing home about, or that the style with be very different. That I can understand. But to say there won't be any new themes AT ALL is just bamboozling. Yes, I didn't mean that there would be NO new themes; just that, as you're surmising, the new themes won't be of the same vein. I mean, much like the uphill battle he had with TPM, it's pretty much impossible for him to create something that will immediately be placed by us within the canon of the original trilogy. It's kind of sad, how he's being put into the same trap again.Hopefully they (the two bearded guys) will have mercy on him and just make one Indy film. It's unprecendented, a composer having to fulfill TWO famous trilogies... doesn't he ever want to go on a cruise, or ever be free of those bearded albatrosses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob 0 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Yes, sorry for the hollebaloo.If Williams delivers a score even only on par with, say Revenge of the Sith, I'll be quite happy.You're Chris?I don't know, I'm just making this up as I go.(Actually, he's Chris. The evil eye is upon you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 I'm Spartacus!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I am your father! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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