Michael Giacchino's Star Trek

[OneBuckFilms 325]

I find it interesting, there's a couple of bits that are different from the OST:

- Hella Bar Talk

I noticed that the percussion is different sounding from the OST recording. Also, there are some horns that play before the more upbeat portion, when Kirk is looking up at the ship. Well, the horns are not there in the movie. The rest is.

- Enterprising Young Men

The shot where a shuttle passes over the top of the saucer, there is an extra bar held there. Later, the shot where the shuttles are entering the shuttlebay, there are a couple of extra measures added.

I have to say, my favorite unreleased cues:

- Robau Departs

- Spock Prime's Arrival

- Distress Call

- Approaching the Drill Platform

- Drill Platform Fight

- Spock Saves The High Council / Acting Captain's Log

- Monster Chase

- The Enterprise Emerges

The soundtrack would be much better with these cues added.

[Datameister 2,092]

Yeah, there were some loop edits in "Enterprising Young Men" to make it last longer. "Nailin' the Kelvin" has the opposite issue - there are numerous short passages missing from the film.

It's also interesting to listen to just the rear channels because some of the percussion is omitted from the mix. Kind of cool to hear the music deconstructed like that.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Yeah, there were some loop edits in "Enterprising Young Men" to make it last longer. "Nailin' the Kelvin" has the opposite issue - there are numerous short passages missing from the film.

It's also interesting to listen to just the rear channels because some of the percussion is omitted from the mix. Kind of cool to hear the music deconstructed like that.

I'm not so sure there was looping. It sounds like the instruments are playing smooth notes, with subtle tone changes, that cannot be simulated.

Listen to the change in the tone of the brass through the extra length as the shuttle passes over the saucer.

[Datameister 2,092]

I already listened to it several times, trying to figure it out, and I'm certain it was looped. In fact, I just replicated that edit in Audacity, using the OST. If you listen closely, you can hear the trumpets swell twice. The volume has been messed with to try to achieve a more natural crescendo, and there's a crossfade into the looped segment so you don't hear a jarring "hiccup" in the sound, but it's an edit. Sounds like one to me. Besides, if it had been recorded that way and then edited down for the album...well, it'd constitute the sort of microedit one expects in Williams albums, not Giacchino albums. Consider also that these shots are pure CGI, meaning that they could easily have been made longer after the music was recorded.

EDIT: I'm having fun transcribing the track in Finale. Just felt like sharing. I hope I'm patient enough to get to the big statement of the main theme!

[Datameister 2,092]

It's interesting...the Kelvin seems to have a little motif of its own. An unreleased motif, unfortunately. I actually noticed it the very first time I saw the film - it's a neat little ditty with a military sort of feel that I heard as Robau and Kirk Sr. left the bridge. I was disappointed that it wasn't on the OST. I've now realized that this motif is also used in the cue before this one, after the tracked statement of Nero's theme.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

By George, you're right. My cue I think.

[Datameister 2,092]

Wait...what? Was that a pun? Because if so, I already called dibs on using "Bye, George" as the track title for that cue.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Here's a question, and a bit of a challenge.

If one were to edit down from the complete score for an expanded soundtrack, which cues would you add to better represent the score?

There are a couple of rules that would be a given for expanding the soundtrack:

1. No cue can be removed from the standard CD cue list.

2. No non-giacchino music can be included (licensing).

3. Source cues are allowed if created specifically for the move.

Also, how would you have this presented, beyond the CD contents? What images/imagery from the movie would you ideally include?

Lets see if we can semi-create our ideal Star Trek Soundtrack CD.

Wait...what? Was that a pun? Because if so, I already called dibs on using "Bye, George" as the track title for that cue.

I had no idea, but it works for me !!!

Definately in keeping with the soundtrack cue titles

[Datameister 2,092]

Good question. I'll have to think on it, and maybe provide my answer after I've finished editing my complete version.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Star Trek - Ideal Cue Listing

1. Star Trek

2. Robau Departs

3. Nailin' The Kelvin

4. Labor of Love

5. Main Title (Enterprising Young Men)

6. Spock Grows Up

7. Hella Bar Talk

8. Distress Call

9. Enterprising Young Men

10. Nero Sighted

11. Red Matter / Pike's Plan / Preparing For Jump

12. Drill Platform Fight

13. Spock Saves The High Council / Acting Captain's Log

14. Monster Chase

15. Nice to Meld You

16. Starfleet Regulation 619

17. Release Valve

18. The Enterprise Emerges

19. Run and Shoot Offense

20. Does It Still McFly?

21. Nero Death Experience

22. Nero Fiddles, Narad Burns

23. Back From Black

24. That New Car Smell

25. To Boldly Go / End Credits

In thinking about this, I started by excluding the "filler" cues that were repeats of themes and material from other cues.

I then thought about the material that was immediately noticable as missing from the soundtrack, such as Spock rescuing the High Council and the Monster Chase.

I'd also like to submit to the community a couple of alternate cue names:

Distress Call -> Assignments

Spock Saves The High Council -> The Katric Ark

Acting Captain's Log -> An Endangered Species

Monster Chase -> Monster Red Alert

Starfleet Regulation 619 -> Emotionally Compromised

The Enterprise Emerges -> Enterprising Titan

I just heard the TOS Fanfare at the tail end of Distress Call. I never noticed that in the movie !!!!

[Delorean90 42]

I may end up listening to this before the DVD comes out, but I'm not going to edit anything until I've actually got the DVD. Very often the front channels will have valuable material that may even have fewer SFX.

A thought: Wouldn't it be awesome if the original main title (one of them) ends up in a menu or special features? It's not impossible...

[Datameister 2,092]

Jason can remedy that, Delorean90. Shoot him a PM. The front channels are indeed very useful, especially in the case of scores like Star Trek, where some of the percussion and so forth is absent from the rear channel mix.

Also, I forgot - how do we know that there were two original, non-tracked main titles?

[Delorean90 42]

Oh, the front channels are there, too? I thought it was only rear. Hmm...interesting.

I think Erik Wood or someone in the know mentioned the main titles--I'm pretty sure there were a few different sources. Even if I couldn't hear them, I'm wondering if they were tonally similar to the "Enterprising Young Men" excerpt or if it was a big departure from what we ended up with.

[Datameister 2,092]

Interesting. I hope we get to hear 'em! (And while we're on the topic of the main titles, I find it interesting that the film version sounds slightly different from "Enterprising Young Men." The main difference is in the second percussion-based measure, which just keeps plowing through with eighth notes instead of switching to quarter note triplets.)

[OneBuckFilms 325]

I'm definately curious.

Hearing onloy the percussion in the rear channels is interesting. I can pick up more of the pattern used.

I'm also noticing more of the rhythm in Spock Rescues the High Council.

The more I listen to this, the more I realize just how inadequate a representation of the score we have on the soundtrack.

I DEFINATELY think there should be one of Varese's Deluxe Editions for this score, mostly for the unreleased cues I've listed.

I don't feel cheated or anything by the Soundtrack, but definately think this material should be expanded.

[Jay 37,491]

A thought: Wouldn't it be awesome if the original main title (one of them) ends up in a menu or special features? It's not impossible...

The only sound playing on the main dvd's menus are sound effects. No music. Dunno about the special features disc, however.

Also, I forgot - how do we know that there were two original, non-tracked main titles?

Chris Tilton said so on the FSM messageboards.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

From what little information has come out about the DVD and Blu-Ray menus, this would make sense.

I think they are mimicking the UI of the Enterprise computers in the movie.

A couple of menu screenshots have been shown, and it looks pretty neat.

Having the Enterprise bridge sounds in the background could work really well.

There's also a documentary on the score in there that I'm looking forward to seeing.

[Jay 37,491]

Yes exactly, the menus on the movie disc mimic the ship's computer.

Hopefully there will be some good stuff on the special features disc!

[Datameister 2,092]

The middle portion from "Lightning Storm in Space" (still working on my own punny title...[EDIT: Got it! "Jimmune Reaction.") seems to be tracked. There are audible edits, and it's just stuff from "Run and Shoot Offense" that's been pitched down a half-step. My edit will omit that portion - I'm trying to leave out all tracked music, with the exception of the main titles. That also means that the film's very first statement of Nero's main theme isn't in my edit, since that was ostensibly tracked from near the end of "Nero Sighted."

EDIT: And I can't figure out if "Warp" (which I'd call "Punch It") is tracked. It probably is...if I had access to the original recordings (i.e. without the percussion overlays), I could easily duplicate it using the material from "Enterprising Young Men" and the end credits, with a little artificial reverb at the end. In any case, the sounds of the Enterprise so loud in the rip that I probably won't bother including it.

[Jay 37,491]

the film's very first statement ofNero's main theme isn't in my edit, since that was ostensibly trackedfrom near the end of "Nero Sighted."

Are you sure that is tracked and not just similar?

[Datameister 2,092]

It's hard to be 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure. It sounds completely identical. If it's not tracked, it's basically just another recording of the same material. There's nothing new presented until the last 20 seconds or so of that cue, as heard in the film...and that 20 seconds starts with a sustained tone that basically crescendos from nothing. That could easily be the start of the cue as it was written and recorded.

EDIT: Here's another interesting observation. Now, the choir was ostensibly recorded separately; we already knew that because the orchestra cuts out at one point in the film version of "Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns", leaving the choir exposed. But I've found another instance of them messing with only using the choir or orchestra, rather than both together. So, "Red Matter" is apparently just tracked from the credits (or vice versa), but it's missing that dissonant choral crescendo at the end. The orchestra just plays alone. However, I think that choral crescendo can also be heard in the film itself...it's just that it's a few minutes before that cue. It leads into "Nero Sighted" in the film. (Speaking of which, "Nero Sighted" was pitched down a whole-step in the film.)

[Datameister 2,092]

Actually...crap, maybe that statement of Nero's theme really was recorded for use in the film - without the choir overlay - and the choir was just supposed to be used the way it was in the film, and then it was co-opted to help the transition out of Nero's theme when it was tracked into the credits. I can't decide what to do for my edit.

[Jay 37,491]

I think that choral statement is the end of "Romulan Transmissions"... I think the reason you hear it come in seemingly from nowhere in the film is because the middle of "Romulan Transmissions" is dialed out. Then, I think it was added to the end credits suite to bridge "Red Matter" to the original music that follows it.

Also, good catch on that portion of "Lightning Storm In Space" being tracked. The edit is SOOOOOO obvious on the rear channels!!!

I think "Warp" (aka "Punch It") is not tracking but an individually recorded cue MEANT to sound extremely similar to the end of Enterprising Young Men.

[Datameister 2,092]

But other than our own speculation, do we have any concrete reason to believe that "Romulan Transmission" ("Nyota Good Idea" in my edit ) was a longer cue with most of the last half dialed out? Seems to me like the moment they de-warp into the debris would be the perfect spot for the cue to end, and that's where it does end in the film...

EDIT: I guess you're probably right about "Warp", though. It doesn't quite match up with the similar material in "Enterprising Young Men" and the end credits.

[Jay 37,491]

Hmmmm. You may be right.

Romulan Transmissions probably IS just a minute long and ends when they exit warp. That choral piece was probably recorded separately from the rest of "Nero Sighted", and when assembling the album, they felt it made more sense to not include it..... Without it, the album has a nice flow going from Enterprising Young Men into Nero Sighted. Plus, they knew the choral piece would be in the End Credits anyway.

[Datameister 2,092]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I did go into the end credits as heard in the film, trying to find some sort of difference in the editing that would prove that it was indeed edited, but I couldn't really find any difference. (Save for the missing chunk of original credits music, that is.)

EDIT: Okay, I've made up my mind. Nero's theme was NOT recorded as part of the credits. I can hear the edit going into it. I'm gonna assume it was written and recorded for use in the film, possibly with the additional use for the credits also in mind.

[Jay 37,491]

Wait, what are you talking about now?

[Datameister 2,092]

Sorry, that came out kinda garbled. I was saying that the "Red Matter" material must have been written for the scene in the film, not for the end credits, because I can hear the edit going into that section in the credits. It's not like they recorded that as part of the end credits and then tracked it into the film, which was my original suspicion.

EDIT: Whoa. McCoy has a little mini-theme of his own. I've only heard it used in two cues so far - first while he and Jim meet for the first time on the shuttle, and then when Spock tells him he's become chief medical officer. I hope that theme gets more mileage and development in the sequels, which will hopefully give Bones a little bit more attention. (Not that I mind having a film that focuses on the Kirk/Spock dynamic.)

[OneBuckFilms 325]

There is definately more to this score than is at first apparent.

[Jay 37,491]

Sorry, that came out kinda garbled. I was saying that the "Red Matter" material must have been written for the scene in the film, not for the end credits, because I can hear the edit going into that section in the credits. It's not like they recorded that as part of the end credits and then tracked it into the film, which was my original suspicion.

Oh, well yea. That is for sure the case. In fact, I believe that what I have listed as two separate cues - "Red Matter" and "Pike's Plan" - is really one long cue, and they only stuck the beginning of it into the end credits, then added the "Nero Sighted Choral Insert" to mask the transition to the next piece instead of continuing with the cue.

Whoa. McCoy has a little mini-theme of his own. I've only heard it used in two cues so far - first while he and Jim meet for the first time on the shuttle, and then when Spock tells him he's become chief medical officer. I hope that theme gets more mileage and development in the sequels, which will hopefully give Bones a little bit more attention. (Not that I mind having a film that focuses on the Kirk/Spock dynamic.)

Neat! I'll have to listen for it tonight.

[Datameister 2,092]

So far, all I've heard of that McCoy theme is just a simple alternation between two chords...not much of a melody...but they both occur in important moments involving Bones.

[Jay 37,491]

I wonder if Mr. Tilton can pop in and shed any light on it

[OneBuckFilms 325]

That would be great. We are speculating on a lot here, and Mr. Tilton was there.

[Datameister 2,092]

Indeed!

[Datameister 2,092]

Whew, that's annoying...when Spock does his acting captain's log after the destruction of Vulcan, his voice comes through very loudly in the front channels...and the rear channels are useless because they don't have the erhu mixed in. Luckily, if you duplicate the front channels, switch the left and right, and invert the signal, the dialogue MOSTLY cancels itself out. Unfortunately, it hurts the sound quality of the music, but at least there isn't a loud and highly distracting monologue covering it up.

[Jay 37,491]

Wow. You certainly know some mixing/editing techniques that I do not. I can't wait to hear your results.

Joe can you post times for you "McCoy's Theme?" Based on my mp3 times I guess.

Listening to the sequence from Red Matter through Spock's Log right now. SOMETHING from this 15 minute section of score should have been on the OST. It's so good!

[Datameister 2,092]

Haha, that particular technique was one of my more recent discoveries. The key thing that makes it work is this: if you play two copies of the exact same audio file with the exact same volume at the exact same time but you invert one of them (literally just turn the waveform upside-down with the Invert effect in Audacity), the result will be silence. An inverted version of a sound cancels itself out. Now, music is, of course, generally in stereo. We have the two front channels forming a stereo pair, with slightly different music signals in each. But dialogue is recorded in mono, so if there's any dialogue heard in both front channels, it's probably the exact same signal in both channels. So if you overlay each channel with an inverted version of the other channel, the dialogue cancels out but the music doesn't. It's impossible to explain in a way that doesn't sound complicated, but the idea is actually relatively simple. I should do a visual sometime.

As for track times - well, everything up to the Courage material in "Bones" is what I'm talking about. It's really just an alternation between two chords. The other statement I was referring to can be heard at 1:56 in your track "Red Matter - Pike's Plan - Preparing For Jump." It's very, very brief, and it's not quite the same, so perhaps I'm just grasping at straws. But it happens right as Bones inherits his rightful duties on the Enterprise, which seems like a good place for it. Also, that same chord progression can be heard near the end of the film itself, in what some folks were interpreting as a reference to Ilia's Theme. Dunno if there's a connection.

[Maxxie 1]

I notice "Enterprising Young Men" is ever so slightly extended. Could be just looped?

[Jay 37,491]

Maxxie, scroll back a page. We had a whole discussion about that in the middle of page 8 of this thread

[Maxxie 1]

Ah yes, so you did.

Sorry!

[Datameister 2,092]

We didn't mention that the beginning is also longer, BTW - the first couple of bars are also looped.

[Jay 37,491]

Was just reading through some of the earlier posts, and I had mentioned that it was possible some of "Approaching The Drill Platform" was tracked from "Nero Death Experience". It was hard to tell if it was tracked or similar from the, ah, materials I had at the time.

I don't have the dvd rips with me here at work, but has anyone compared the two to verify one way or the other?

[Datameister 2,092]

They're indeed very similar, but what we hear in the film is not tracked, I believe. It sounds just different enough for me to be convinced.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

I can also say that those other materials were not the movie recordings, BTW. They were recorded for a tie-in product.

[Jay 37,491]

They're indeed very similar, but what we hear in the film is not tracked, I believe. It sounds just different enough for me to be convinced.

Righty-O. That means thats another recurring theme, sort of, then. Like an Action Motif.

I can also say that those other materials were not the movie recordings, BTW. They were recorded for a tie-in product.

I wasn't referring to those; I was referring to the movie itself. All I had until the dvd came out was muddy audio that was hard to tell too much from

I'm aware the "expanded score boot" was really just edits from the OST mixed with music from the "Star Trek: DAC" video game, which is a re-recording. I've removed all references to that stuff in the main post.

[OneBuckFilms 325]

Probably good to remove those expanded score boot references.

[Tallguy 3,491]

Does anyone else think there is a Kirk Family theme? It plays in Nailin' the Kelvin at :57 and (I think) in Labor of Love starting at :53. (There's SOME kind of theme that makes up most of Labor of Love, I'm just not sure how it ties to the rest of the score.) And then (this is why I think it's the Kirk Family theme or at least the Kirk's Father theme) in Hella Bar Talk it plays under the Kirk / Star Trek theme at :53.

Or am I just confusing some similar sounding melodies? Whatcha think?

[Jay 37,491]

Probably good to remove those expanded score boot references.

If there was a boot of the actual recording sessions of the score it'd be fine, but since it was just 2 minutes of a re-recording, its not even worth mentioning.

Does anyone else think there is a Kirk Family theme? It plays in Nailin' the Kelvin at :57 and (I think) in Labor of Love starting at :53. (There's SOME kind of theme that makes up most of Labor of Love, I'm just not sure how it ties to the rest of the score.) And then (this is why I think it's the Kirk Family theme or at least the Kirk's Father theme) in Hella Bar Talk it plays under the Kirk / Star Trek theme at :53.

Or am I just confusing some similar sounding melodies? Whatcha think?

I will check it out when I get home from work and let you know!

[Datameister 2,092]

Sorry to disagree, but I'd say each of those three passages you mentioned are different, Tallguy. I'm not hearing a new leitmotif there, though "Labor of Love" certainly develops a theme (not in the leitmotivic sense) of its own, one that's briefly reprised near the end of the film as Spock nearly ends up sacrificing himself just like George Kirk did.

Oh, and another tip for my fellow editors: high pass filtering can be very useful for scenes on ships with quiet music. Those scenes tend to have a lot of very low, continuous rumbling noises. You can usually use high pass to cut out the lowest frequencies without affecting the music at all. In Audacity, I'm finding 177 Hz to be a good cutoff frequency. And it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach - you can duplicate part or all of a track, apply the high pass filter to it, and then crossfade into that duplicate wherever it's needed, if the rumbling comes and goes.

You can technically do the same thing with the low pass filter to get rid of high-pitched stuff, but that tends to hurt the sound quality of the music a lot more, and it doesn't help as much anyway.

[Jay 37,491]

I thought that the passages he mentioned in "Nailing The Kelvin" and "Hella Bar Talk" sounded like the same theme - except it was 7 notes in NTK and 8 notes in HBT. However, I didn't think Labor of Love was the same theme at all