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Michael Giacchino's Star Trek


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The use of the TOS theme seems almost like an afterthought to me. And its use in the end credits seems rather trite to me, now.

I think its use in the end credits is the musical equivalent of Kirk finally wearing the yellow shirt and sitting in the big chair. Hardly an afterthought.

I can dig that, but it seems like an afterthought because there's no real hint of it beforehand. All we get is a couple of short phrases of the opening notes, which just seems like a missed opportunity to me. I would have liked to have seen maybe parts of the theme mixed in with Kirk's journey, with the full-blown theme finally coming when he becomes Captain, ala Casino Royale. That maybe would have turned it into a great score, or maybe not. But it's something I felt for me was missing that I think would have helped.

I've heard an Interview with Giacchino about why he didn't use more of the TOS theme, or other themes from the Trek canon, and if I remember correctly, he tried to uise it in several places more prominently, and to hint at other themes from TOS, and maybe TMP.

He stated that whenever he slipped in a theme from elsewhere in Star Trek, it simply didn't work, and sounded forced.

The movie really needed to end on it's own themes (That New Car Smell) before introducing Courage's fanfare and theme for the end credits (To Boldly Go / End Credits).

They had just a couple of hints where they worked in the movie, and considering that this was taking a different direction in many ways, was just right IMHO.

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"Giacchino's Star Trek, back by popular demand!" Um....where?

The best ones I've found, I purchased at Europadisc.co.uk. Not very expensive either. These are of the same good quality as the big labels use.

Doesn't buying this score require being able to listen to it?

Whew...my edit is finished! I think! :D Here's the track listing as it currently stands:

1. Star Trek - 1:01

2. Narada Nowhere - 0:24

3. Bye, George - 2:06

4. Ceasefire Negotiations - 1:00

5. Nailin' the Kelvin - Labor of Love - Main Title - 5:37

6. Growing Up Green-Blooded - 1:38

7. Hella Bar Talk - 1:53

8. The Reeling McCoy - 0:47

9. Jellyfishing - 1:08

10. Kirk's Trial - 0:20

11. Distress Call - Enterprising Young Men - 6:23

12. Punch It - 0:17

13. Jimmune Reaction - 0:49

13. Fire Drill - 0:30

15. Nyota Good Idea - 1:04

16. Nero Sighted - 3:23

17. The Drill Team - 3:27

18. The Jump - 1:01

19. Fighting Fire With Fire - 3:02

20. The Planet Has Minutes - 0:54

21. Chekov's Rapture - 1:23

22. Aspockalypse Now - 1:19

23. Lament for Vulcan - 1:49

24. Turbolift of Spirits - 1:06

25. Romulinterrogation - 2:27

26. This is Heavy, Spock - 1:17

27. Kobayashi Marooned - 0:37

28. Always a Bigger Fish - 1:21

29. Spock Prime Time - 0:45

30. Nice to Meld You - 3:14

31. Jim's Father - 0:34

32. Into the Outpost - 0:28

33. Starfleet Regulation 619 - 1:57

34. Scotty Goes For a Swim - 1:00

35. Come With Me, Cupcake - 0:38

36. Vulcanic Eruption - 1:29

37. Emotionally Compromised - 1:00

38. Child of Two Worlds - 1:17

39. Getting to Know Each Other - 0:55

40. Jim Runs a Titan Ship - 2:00

41. Run and Shoot Offense - 2:05

42. Does It Still McFly - 2:03

43. Nero Death Experience - 5:39

44. Nero Fiddles. Narada Burns - 2:34

45. Ejecting the Core - 0:55

46. Back From Black - 1:00

47. That New Car Smell - 4:46

48. To Boldly Go - End Credits - 10:01

_________________________________________________

49. Star Trek (Raw) - 0:57

50. Hella Bar Talk (Film Version) - 1:56

51. Nice to Meld You (Film Version) - 2:56

52. Does It Still McFly (Choir Overdub) - 0:29

53. Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns (Choir Only) - 0:14

54. Back from Black (Choir Overdub) - 0:40

55. To Boldly Go - End Credits (Voiceover) - 10:01

Score - 1:32:02

Bonus tracks - 17:10

Total runtime - 1:49:12

Naturally, there may be more material on the bonus DVD when it comes out, and there's always the possibility of bootlegged material getting leaked at some point, but I think I've done pretty well with what we've got. I've avoided knowingly presenting any tracked material in this edit, with the exception of the main titles. I'll try to finish up my analysis soon. Also, Jay, if you know of an easy way to copy an entire iTunes playlist to a different location on one's hard drive for ZIPping purposes, it'd be in your own best interest to let me know...if you catch my drift... ;)

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Also, Jay, if you know of an easy way to copy an entire iTunes playlist to a different location on one's hard drive for ZIPping purposes, it'd be in your own best interest to let me know...if you catch my drift... :D

Nice work!

You can drag the tracks from a playlist into a folder on your desktop or elsewhere (um, I'm assuming Windows, don't know what it does on a Mac). It will copy the tracks into the folder and leave the original tracks intact.

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Wow!

- What the heck is Star Trek (raw)?

- That 14 seconds of choir is the ONLY difference between the OST and film versions of "Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns"?

- Woah, you made a voiceover-less version of To Boldy Go? Awesome!

- I dislike including the tracked main title in the body of the edit. If Giacchino's original main title ever leaks out, I'd love to hear that in its place, but including music tracked from later in the score doesn't sit well with me. I like that the score is building up to its big statement when the Enterprise is revealed in the hangar deck; I don't want to hear that same statement earlier in the score, especially right after the sad labor of love scene.

I don't understand your itunes question. What does iTunes have to do with zipping up wav files?

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Thanks, guys! :D

What the heck is Star Trek (raw)?

I generally use the "(Raw)" suffix in my expanded edits to denote a track that has synth, percussion, and/or choral elements missing, usually because it's ripped from the rear channels. In this case, it's just the rear-channel rip of the track "Star Trek" - it's missing the rather significant synth parts, so it sounds thinner and less powerful. Makes for an interesting, if less satisfying, listen.

That 14 seconds of choir is the ONLY difference between the OST and film versions of "Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns"?

If I remember correctly, yes. Well, and the red matter material is dropped, as you've already noted, but that's it. I'm pretty sure they just recorded the choir and orchestra separately, and for that moment, they dialed out the orchestra to leave the choir exposed. You can hear the exact same choral parts under the orchestra on the album.

Woah, you made a voiceover-less version of To Boldy Go? Awesome!

Well, I made a version WITH the Leonard Nimoy voiceover, a la TWOK. I mixed the DVD center channel with the OST track and added a little bit of reverb to the former. Then the rest of the track is identical. (Note that both versions include the extra crescendo heard at the end of the film's credits, and I actually didn't aim to remove the sound effects. I thought it was a nice coda with the warp sounds, though my goal is usually to remove as many sound effects as possible.)

I dislike including the tracked main title in the body of the edit. If Giacchino's original main title ever leaks out, I'd love to hear that in its place, but including music tracked from later in the score doesn't sit well with me. I like that the score is building up to its big statement when the Enterprise is revealed in the hangar deck; I don't want to hear that same statement earlier in the score, especially right after the sad labor of love scene.

A perfectly valid opinion. I won't try to defend my approach - it's really just a "feel" thing. If we ever do get the original main titles leaked with reasonably good sound quality and cleanness, I'll probably pop that in instead, assuming I like the original. But for whatever reason, I thought the tracked version fit just fine into the film, even after the "Labor of Love" scene, so I'm keeping it in there for now at least.

]I don't understand your itunes question. What does iTunes have to do with zipping up wav files?

Well, all my edited WAVs are sitting with a bunch of other edited WAVs in a bigger folder, and then there are copies in my iTunes folders, and then there's an iTunes playlist that actually organizes them into the right order. I'd like to be able to prepare a WAV that somehow gets the order right. Tallguy, your approach gets all the files into one place, which is very important, but the order isn't preserved. Anyone know how to do that?

Oh, wait - I found out about XML playlist exporting. I'll give that a shot when I get a chance.

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Woah, you made a voiceover-less version of To Boldy Go? Awesome!

Well, I made a version WITH the Leonard Nimoy voiceover, a la TWOK. I mixed the DVD center channel with the OST track and added a little bit of reverb to the former. Then the rest of the track is identical. (Note that both versions include the extra crescendo heard at the end of the film's credits, and I actually didn't aim to remove the sound effects. I thought it was a nice coda with the warp sounds, though my goal is usually to remove as many sound effects as possible.)

LOL - brain fart on my point! I somehow momentarily thought that the OST version had the voice-over, like the TOWK OST did. Woops!

I dislike including the tracked main title in the body of the edit. If Giacchino's original main title ever leaks out, I'd love to hear that in its place, but including music tracked from later in the score doesn't sit well with me. I like that the score is building up to its big statement when the Enterprise is revealed in the hangar deck; I don't want to hear that same statement earlier in the score, especially right after the sad labor of love scene.

A perfectly valid opinion. I won't try to defend my approach - it's really just a "feel" thing. If we ever do get the original main titles leaked with reasonably good sound quality and cleanness, I'll probably pop that in instead, assuming I like the original. But for whatever reason, I thought the tracked version fit just fine into the film, even after the "Labor of Love" scene, so I'm keeping it in there for now at least.

Fair enough. A version of your mix of Nailing the Kelvin -> Labor Of Love without the Main Title included would be a good bonus track too

Tallguy, your approach gets all the files into one place, which is very important, but the order isn't preserved. Anyone know how to do that?

With a WAV, I think the only way to do that is to include the track number in the file name.

Yea, that's what I don't understand. Whenever I am working on a score, I am adding track numbers in my file names as I'm going along working on it. Sometimes you have to change a bunch when you split one track into two or combine two into one, but its just a necessary evil of score editing, I think.

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A version of your mix of Nailing the Kelvin -> Labor Of Love without the Main Title included would be a good bonus track too

Meh...maybe. :D

Whenever I am working on a score, I am adding track numbers in my file names as I'm going along working on it. Sometimes you have to change a bunch when you split one track into two or combine two into one, but its just a necessary evil of score editing, I think.

I have never done that at all. It just seemed like too much hassle. Since I've generally just made my edits for myself in the past, it's been quite easy to create the files without numbers and then arrange them in a playlist as I go. Gives me more flexibility. I can see the benefit of doing it your way, though.

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Yeah...it's somewhat better with the complete score, since there's about 8 minutes of music in between instead of just 2, but it's still not perfect. I just don't like going from "Labor of Love" to "Growing Up Green Blooded" - it feels like we've skipped more than source music, and that's because...well, we have.

But I said I wasn't gonna defend my choice. There's an insane amount of personal preference that goes into how one edits these things, and it's truly impossible to please everyone. All I can do is edit it the way that's going to produce the greatest emotional impact for me. :D EDIT: That being said, I mean it when I say that I appreciate feedback and constructive criticism. I'll even defend the choices that I think really are logical and on some level "right." But this is one where neither way is perfect and I just went with the one that satisfies me most.

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Datameister, looks really good man. I love how you managed to add one more BTTF reference into your track titles! :D

One question: "Nero Death Experience" is definitely a film version/original (album) version situation. Was the film version just too replete with SFX for you to use?

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Datameister, looks really good man. I love how you managed to add one more BTTF reference into your track titles! ;)

Thanks! :D The opportunity was just too good to pass up, once I finally realized it was there.

One question: "Nero Death Experience" is definitely a film version/original (album) version situation. Was the film version just too replete with SFX for you to use?

I think they used the exact same recording, honestly. It's just really chopped to bits and pieces in the film, and they made some slightly different choices about which percussion overdubs to use. And then the part where the Enterprise pops out of warp and we hear the main theme? I'm almost positive they just took the original choir part and replaced the orchestral part with material from "Enterprising Young Men", with the pitch changed so the keys would match, of course. So that's an interesting musical moment, but a tracked one nonetheless, and I decided not to include it for that reason.

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You may be right about the warp moment (man, I really wished they had gone with the original version of that bit; it's such an awesome moment on CD, and the moment in film itself is fantastic. If they had put 'em together...bliss!), but there's other stuff. I'm thinking particularly of the bit after that, when we return to the Narada as Kirk is getting Pike. I haven't gotten to listen to the rip yet, but I definitely remember a quieter statement of the new rescue variation (from the guns blazing warp exit), and some music for that whole scene seemed different/new. At the very least, it's an unreleased bit that got edited out of the original, but I'm kinda thinking it's a film recording, made for the final sequencing of the climax. Now that the "I got your gun" bit is after Spock's rescue, Giacchino presumably went ahead and used that variation, whereas in the original, it seems that that moment and Pike's rescue were continous, not split up by the other section.

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There IS one moment in that sequence, just one, that's definitely not on the OST. Starts around 1:48:10 in the film. It's a single dissonant crescendo in the brass. I have no idea what that was recorded for. Everything else is that sequence just sounds like a chopped-up version of the album version with different percussion and the aforementioned tracking.

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I have never done that at all. It just seemed like too much hassle. Since I've generally just made my edits for myself in the past, it's been quite easy to create the files without numbers and then arrange them in a playlist as I go. Gives me more flexibility. I can see the benefit of doing it your way, though.

There certainly is merit to not numbering the tracks until you are done. However, I do think that once you're done, it makes a ton of sense to take the 5 minutes and sit there in windows explorer adding numbers to the front of each file name. Wouldn't you want your files in your folders to be organized in listening order anyway?

The problem with the tracked main titles is that you hear the same music ("Enterprising Young Men") just a couple tracks later before you've gotten it off your mind.

Mmmmm hmmmm :D

----------------------

Check it out: a minute and a half of the deleted Klingon subplot

http://www.spike.com...d-bonus/3278137

Does anyone recognize the music?

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There certainly is merit to not numbering the tracks until you are done. However, I do think that once you're done, if you want to distribute your edits, you're just going to have to take 5 minutes and sit there in windows explorer adding numbers to the front of each file name. Suck it up :D

Did the method I used not work?

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OK Joe I've had time to listen to your edit!

-My favorite track titles are Jellyfishing, Spock Prime Time, and especially Fire Drill (:lol:)

-Overall your edit is so much better than just listening to the rear channels directly! Did a good job of finding the bits with the least sfx/voice and removing whatever else you could. It really sounds great, and is the best we'll have until we can pick apart the DVD's bonus disc or recording sessions leak out.

- What's up with "Kobayashi Marooned"? I know its a reference to Kobayashi Maru, but that has nothing to do with this scene, right?

- Any reason you combined "Nailing The Kelvin" with "Labor of Love", but not "Nero Death Experiene" with "Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns"?

- My favorite unreleased music, using your titles, are Distress Call (so many variations on a lot of themes! Don't think I had ever noticed that Courage's fanfare plays at the very end!), The Drill Team (so exciting!), Narada Nowhere (reminds me of Lost), Checkov's Rapture (Great use of the secondary ostinato), and Ejecting The Core (don't think I ever noticed how good this music was until your edit)

- The little bit of music that plays at 1:58 of Distress Call... am I going crazy or is that heard elsewhere in the score too? Or, maybe its similar to a theme from another score? Can't figure it out!

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-My favorite track titles are Jellyfishing, Spock Prime Time, and especially Fire Drill (:lol:)

Haha, thanks! :D My personal favorite is "This is Heavy, Spock", but I like those, too.

- What's up with "Kobayashi Marooned"? I know its a reference to Kobayashi Maru, but that has nothing to do with this scene, right?

Yeah, that one has nothing to do with the Kobayashi Maru, which made me a little hesitant to use that track title, but there is precedent in Giacchino scores. Consider, for example, "Karma Jin-itiative" from the Lost S4 OST, which scores a scene that has everything to do with karma and Jin but nothing to do with the Dharma Initiative.

- Any reason you combined "Nailing The Kelvin" with "Labor of Love", but not "Nero Death Experiene" with "Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns"?

Well, "Nailin' the Kelvin" and "Labor of Love" were very clearly written with the intention that they be edited together, as they were in the film. They're really just one piece split up into two cues. I don't find that to be the case with the other two. It may be that they were supposed to be edited together as well, but certainly not in the awkward way heard in the film. It's possible that the snare drum roll was supposed to overlap with the final string swell...I just tried editing it that way, and it sounds better than it does in the film, but still kinda weird. I prefer the way they sound apart. As a general principle in my edits, I try to keep things...musical. In cases like this, where the best I have to go off of is an edit in the film that's not very musical, I usually just stick with the album presentation.

- The little bit of music that plays at 1:58 of Distress Call... am I going crazy or is that heard elsewhere in the score too? Or, maybe its similar to a theme from another score? Can't figure it out!

Mmm, I'm not sure what you're talking about. 1:58 is near the end of some main theme material, and then it's followed by a simple crescendo with repeated trumpet chords. After that comes a motif that's used repeatedly just in that cue. Now, if that was a typo and you meant 2:58, that's shortly after the start of a cute little melody that is repeated elsewhere - specifically at 0:51 in "Jim Runs a Titan Ship." It's puzzling because it almost has the "sound" of a major theme, but it's only heard in those two cues. I'd say it's closer to being a theme than your "Nero's secondary theme", though, since it continues being developed all the way through the end of "Distress Call."

EDIT: By the way, sorry my analysis isn't ready yet. I'd work on it now, but I want to mostly take the day off from this score. Tomorrow I'll be traveling for a few hours, and I intend to listen to the score straight through. (Oddly, I seem to appreciate music most while I'm in a car or bus.) So I'd like to give myself a little time to not listen to the score, so it has a little more freshness tomorrow. But hopefully I'll get back to work on it on Sunday.

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Thanks! :lol: Yeah, I brought "Nailin' the Kelvin" and "Labor of Love" into the same file as the DVD rip so I could line them up with the exact same timing heard in the movie. I'd actually tried doing this before we had the rip, just based on my memory and on common sense. The result sounded fine, but unlike the file I sent out, this one wasn't quite right. And I'd also created my own "Main Title" edit using material from "Enterprising Young Men", but for my final edit, I ended up just using the DVD rip because:

1. They had access to the separate percussion overdubs, allowing the percussion to come in before the orchestra.

2. They really perfected the edit going from the main theme into the big tutti rhythm, which I found hard to do without creating some clipping.

3. The percussion sounds a little different.

4. I was hoping that maybe having the main title mixed just slightly different (since it was from the DVD, not the OST) would make the repetition of the "Enterprising Young Men" material less...repetitive. :)

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Haha, I just realized something. It's ridiculous that Sulu and Kirk would take their helmets off on the drill platform...they're, like, on the edge of the atmosphere! No way there'd be enough oxygen, even if Vulcan has a rather high concentration of oxygen in its atmosphere. Haha, oh well.

EDIT: No, I don't think I received that.

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Perhaps Vulcan's atmosphere remains around the same consistency for quite a height. Obviously, they are still breathing (and fighting) at that height.

FYI, I think my favorite unreleased cues are:

- Bye, George

- Main Title

- Distress Call

- The Drill Team

- Fighting Fire With Fire

- Aspockalypse Now

- Lament for Vulcan

- Always a Bigger Fish

- Starfleet Regulation 619

- Scotty Goes For a Swim

- Come With Me, Cupcake

- Jim Runs a Titan Ship

I believe all of these should be on an expanded OST.

Was it the original edit used in the film, or just something someone else put together? It would have to start with just the percussion in order to be the actual film edit.

I'm not sure, I think it might be the actual edit, or one of the alternatives out there.

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Actually, I'd want both, perhaps with the original as a bonus track.

The main title edit used in the movie is an iconic moment of sorts, and should be there in it's place.

The alternate version would be great to hear, but not as necessary to represent the score in the movie.

If I were editing together an expanded score, I'd also add the Asarowuk Jam (sp?) source music from the Starfleet Bar, and possibly Sabotage.

I'm thinking more of an enjoyable presentation of the score rather than including every last note, though I'd love that too. :lol:

But to represent the score in the movie, the Main Title edit used in the movie is appropriate.

If only!

Jay sent me the main title edit, and I'll tell y'all what I told him - it's mostly quite accurate, but I'm sticking with the DVD rip since it has the solo percussion in the beginning and the slightly different drum break.

I'm with you here. I love the percussion in the film mix, especially during "Hella Bar Talk" and "Distress Call" as well.

I think this would be my personal presentation, trying to fit it onto one CD and represent the music in the movie:

1. Star Trek

2. Bye, George

3. Nailin' the Kelvin / Labor of Love / Main Title

4. Sabotage (The Beastie Boys)

5. Asarowuk Jam (The Starfleet Bar)

6. Hella Bar Talk

7. The Reeling McCoy

8. Distress Call / Enterprising Young Men

9. Jimmune Reaction

10. Nero Sighted

11. The Drill Team

12. Fighting Fire With Fire

13. Chekov's Rapture

14. Aspockalypse Now

15. Lament for Vulcan

16. Romulinterrogation

17. Always a Bigger Fish

18. Nice to Meld You

19. Starfleet Regulation 619

20. Scotty Goes For a Swim

21. Come With Me, Cupcake

22. Child of Two Worlds

23. Jim Runs a Titan Ship

24. Run and Shoot Offense

25. Does It Still McFly

26. Nero Death Experience

27. Nero Fiddles, Narada Burns

28. Ejecting the Core

29. Back From Black

30. That New Car Smell

31. To Boldly Go / End Credits

Bonus Tracks

32. Main Title (Original Alternate)

33. Hella Bar Talk (Film Version)

34. To Boldly Go / End Credits (Voiceover)

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There IS one moment in that sequence, just one, that's definitely not on the OST. Starts around 1:48:10 in the film. It's a single dissonant crescendo in the brass. I have no idea what that was recorded for. Everything else is that sequence just sounds like a chopped-up version of the album version with different percussion and the aforementioned tracking.

Yeah, you're right, it's not a full "film version." However, the music immediately preceding that dissonant brass crescendo is what I was talking about with that quiet statement of the previous rescue variation of the main theme. I don't think that's from anywhere else in the score. Without actually having the film to reference, I'm suspecting that that section may be an insert that was recorded to replace the OST section from about 4:42-4:56 on "Nero Death Experience."

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You're absolutely welcome! It's always a fun sort of puzzle figuring out which channels contain the least distractions and fading between them in a way that sounds as natural as possible. Bear in mind that I did "cheat" in a few places, though...sometimes, there'll be a long, sustained note or a motif that repeats without variation, but part of it will be almost inaudible beneath the SFX, so I'll just loop the cleanest section of it. Off the top of my head, I can think of three places in this score where I did that: in "Bye, George" at 1:32 and 1:42, and in "Lament for Vulcan" at 0:46. It's not exactly the most...authentic approach, but the end result sounds closer to the original recording than the version with overwhelming SFX.

One thing that's great about having bonus DVDs is that the edits made to the unreleased music in the film usually do not carry over. For example, those credits tell me that the third note of the Courage fanfare was shortened in the film. Sometimes it's quite drastic...for instance, there's unreleased music from before Harry boards the Knight Bus in POA, but there's even more unreleased music that would have gone after he boarded the bus, but it can only be heard on the bonus disc, since it was dialed out in the film. Or in KOTCS, the cue that plays while they run down the retracting spiral stairs was chopped up pretty bad in the film, but the original can be heard on the bonus disc. All kinds of cool discoveries like that. I can hear what sounds like edits in a few places in the unreleased music, so I'm sure there's even more material we don't yet have. Hopefully it'll show up on that bonus disc.

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Yeah, he actually did a really nice job with the voiceover. I wonder what they recorded it for - if they were actually considering using it in the film, or if it was just for the DVD or even just for the heck of it. I strongly doubt we'll be able to isolate it, though. I've never heard of any DVD bonus features that are in 5.1 surround. They're always in stereo, which makes extracting music significantly more difficult. You pretty much just have to either find stuff that's already clean, or try to cancel out whatever mono signals are mixed in with the music, which degrades the sound quality by nature but can completely get rid of interview dialogue and so forth if you're lucky. And unfortunately, I don't know how to do the opposite and isolate those mono signals like the Chris Pine voiceover. Is that even possible? Seems like it should be...

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