Composers who are smart in their creative decisions?

[karelm 2,915]

I just finished listening to Jerry Goldsmith's score for "Islands in the Stream" from 1977. It is such a beautiful and tender work full of impressionistic touches and great restraint yet is true to his style from that period. I grant few films are made with such a delicate touch these days, but it got me thinking, of contemporary film composers working today, who do you consider to be a smart composer regarding their handling of the dramatic materials and creative decisions they make and are capable of doing justice to sensitive and restrained stories? Are there any film composers around anymore who believe in the craft and holding back as being the best approach to scoring a sensitive story? I was thinking Gabriel Yared but he is no where near as skill as Goldsmith was in getting into the root of the underlying drama of the character or storyline. Of course, there is JW, but I was wondering more about the up and coming generation. It seems Zimmer and his disciples unrestrained approach are so prevalent in the industry these days that there isn't much room for someone taking a more considered and restrained approach.

[Romão 2,276]

Goldenthal can handle both bombast and sensitiveness with mastery.

[karelm 2,915]

Goldenthal can handle both bombast and sensitiveness with mastery.

I completely agree - plus he is original. In one bar you know its him. The only thing is he just doesn't write much.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think it's hard to, you know, compose a restrained action score for an action film. Listen to any of Zimmer's dramas or comedies to hear his restraint.

[Henry B 50]

I think it's hard to, you know, compose a restrained action score for an action film.

[Datameister 2,086]

There's this one guy...Jon Williamson, William Johnson...something like that...he's written some pretty restrained stuff.

[Henry B 50]

Not in a long time he hasn't.

[Datameister 2,086]

You're right...it's been a long year.

[David Coscina 4]

Memoirs of a Geisha and Munich come to mind insofar as restraint.

[Henry B 50]

Mm... true. It's Star Wars and Indiana Jones that show no restraint.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Gustavo Santaolalla writes pretty restrained stuff. He must be really smart and creative.

[John Crichton 4]

The Lord of the Rings features some very restrained action cues.

[Datameister 2,086]

Gustavo Santaolalla writes pretty restrained stuff. He must be really smart and creative.

[Henry B 50]

Santaolalla isn't restrained. He paints with obnoxiously broad strokes.

[Morn 8]

Marco Beltrami. Listen to Flight of the Phoenix. Wonderful and highly originial orchestral painting of the wild deserts in China.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was shot in Namibia!

[skyy38 21]

In "Star Wars" more often than not,there was a lot of restraint and also some very good decision making,from both Williams AND Lucas regarding the score.

Prime case in point. That AWFUL binary sunset cue that eventually got replaced with a soft reading of "The Force" theme.Nice save, George!

Williams was every bit as important as pushing the story as Lucas was and I don't refer to just obvious underscore.

When the Imperial Star Destroyer breaks orbit from Tattooine, Williams very cleverly indentified the films major threat AND indicated the cruisers destination with not just a lower-key version of the Death Star Motif( as previously reported ) but ALSO a somewhat INVERTED version as well.Of course ,it was about 2 decades before I could READ about this, but it just served to reinforce 2 beliefs. One-Williams is the MAN and Two-You can always find out something new about your favorite soundtrack!

Using the Rebel Fanfare for the Falcons entrance into the Death Star was also a better decision than using the woefully obvious Death Star Motif.It just wouldn't have worked not to mention the fact that the motif would have bordered on being over-used.

And when Ben gets cut down by Vader,using Leia's theme made absolute sense because it illustrated the connection between her and Kenobi.

And yes, I also believe that The Imperial Theme from The Empire Strikes Back was borne of the Imperial Theme of Star Wars.

And as far as any such of the above intelligence being displayed in todays movies, I really don't think so.

[Datameister 2,086]

I think Star Wars is actually rather terrible when it comes to strict leitmotivic associations. Williams pretty much just uses whichever theme sounds best. Not that I'd have it any other way for that score - the results are freaking incredible. But you've got Ben's theme playing while Luke is gazing at the sunset, before the character's even introduced...Leia's theme when Obi-Wan dies...Luke's theme when Han returns at the end...I mean, no matter how many convoluted explanations you can come up with for these things, the bottom line is that they just sounded the best. Williams didn't choose them because of some complex rationalization...he chose them because they conveyed the emotions of the film the best, and that's why it's effective.

But none of this was really the point of this old thread, I don't think...

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think Star Wars is actually rather terrible when it comes to strict leitmotivic associations. Williams pretty much just uses whichever theme sounds best. Not that I'd have it any other way for that score - the results are freaking incredible. But you've got Ben's theme playing while Luke is gazing at the sunset, before the character's even introduced...Leia's theme when Obi-Wan dies...Luke's theme when Han returns at the end...I mean, no matter how many convoluted explanations you can come up with for these things, the bottom line is that they just sounded the best. Williams didn't choose them because of some complex rationalization...he chose them because they conveyed the emotions of the film the best, and that's why it's effective.

But none of this was really the point of this old thread, I don't think...

Whilst I think that's true for the whole trilogy, I think Binary Sunset works with that theme not only because it's a great match of images and music, but Ben's Theme also being the Force theme represents not only what Luke has inside him but the doorway to the adventure he craves, so I think it's a good use of foreshadowing. I'm ot 100% sure that's what they were going for, but it fits for me. Especially after Luke mentions him, only to have his uncle immediately change the subject. As for Han, well A: he doesn't have a theme and B: it's already following the through line from Luke's theme as he makes the trench run. I'd probably feel differently if it were a more obvious rendition.

I get what you mean though. I always think of Yoda's Theme in ESB when Lando and Co are escaping from Bespin. But I ignore it, cause it sounds awesome.

[Datameister 2,086]

Yeah, the statement of Yoda's theme is a really good example of this. You can try to justify it by saying that Luke is putting Yoda's teachings to use (or ignoring Yoda's teachings), but at the end of the day, it's just there because it's a good theme. Though I generally like thematic "pureness"...who am I to argue with some amazing results?

I feel ya about Binary Sunset...I mean, it sorta works leitmotivically, mostly in retrospect. But if Williams had just been going off of what the themes literally represented, it would have been Luke's theme. And thank God it wasn't.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Yeah, the statement of Yoda's theme is a really good example of this. You can try to justify it by saying that Luke is putting Yoda's teachings to use (or ignoring Yoda's teachings), but at the end of the day, it's just there because it's a good theme. Though I generally like thematic "pureness"...who am I to argue with some amazing results?

That was what it said in the original LP booklet, Luke "applying Yoda's teachings". Only problem is, nowhere while that cue plays does Luke appear!

[Maglorfin 196]

When I think of restrained - quiet, but very much filled with energy and power - soundtracks, the following spring into mind immediately:

- Shawshank Redemption

- Forrest Gump (for the most part)

- Pay It Forward

- Hannibal (for the most part)

- Alien (some cues)

- Aliens (some cues)

And lots more ...

[Richard Penna 3,756]

Thomas Neman knows the meaning of restraint. I couldn't imagine some of his films with a more traditional score.

Pay it Forward has already been mentioned, but also Erin Brockovich which has a similar bizarre and synthetic approach. An orchestral score would've ruined those films.