The Indianapolis Story

[InTheCity 140]

Put on headphones....

Listen to the violins travel through the stereo field...

Very cool, never noticed it before.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Which version?

[InTheCity 140]

Im honestly not sure which version I have..

[Jilal 569]

The same thing happens in "Dennis Steals the Embryos".

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

Im honestly not sure which version I have..

Does it say MCA, or DECCA on the c.d? How mant tracks are on the c.d?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The same thing happens in "Dennis Steals the Embryos".

When?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

Speaking of "DSTE": is there a synthesizer in that track?

[Jay 37,368]

Yes, 3, according to the sheet music. "Synth Boo Bams", "Synth Keyboard 1 ("Sinister")" and "Synth Keyboard II ("Brassy")"

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Speaking of "DSTE": is there a synthesizer in that track?

Dude! There pretty obviously is!

[dylan345 3]

Is the jawbone sampled/synthesized? Because its the same jawbone sound as in incident at isla nublar and that one is played by a synthesizer.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Is the jawbone sampled/synthesized? Because its the same jawbone sound as in incident at isla nublar and that one is played by a synthesizer.

It's a sample, probably from the Roland TR-727 (Latin drum version of the TR-707). It contained a sample called 'Quijada' - which is the Spanish name for the jawbone.

To hear it for yourself, download this zip (it's only 450KB)

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TR-727/samples/tr727.zip

Bath that in some deep Shawn Murphy-style digital reverb, EQ it, and you've pretty much got the JP sound!

[dylan345 3]

Oh wow thanks, that sounds exactly like the jawbone from the score!

[Smeltington 1,440]

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

Williams gives a loose description i.e. 'synth boob bam', 'sinister strings with slight phase', 'MIDI - Piano + Strings' etc. and Randy Kerber finds the sounds.

[Thor 7,508]

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

If memory serves, he did that for the brief 'techno' outburst in A.I. (although I can't remember who off the top of my head). I'm not sure what he did on, say, "Training Montage" from SPACECAMP and other examples. Williams has always been far more reserved than, say, Goldsmith in his use of synths (thankfully so, Goldsmith had no clue about what he was doing), but I would think it was mapped out beforehand.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Goldsmith had no clue about what he was doing

Huh? Since when is there a right way or wrong way to use synths?

[Smeltington 1,440]

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

Williams gives a loose description i.e. 'synth boob bam', 'sinister strings with slight phase', 'MIDI - Piano + Strings' etc. and Randy Kerber finds the sounds.

Makes sense, although I wonder how he decides he wants synth for a specific part at all. How does he know what kinds of sounds are out there? For example, in HP, how did he know he wanted a synth celeste vs a real one? Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but it just seems a bit high-tech for his sensibilities.

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

If memory serves, he did that for the brief 'techno' outburst in A.I. (although I can't remember who off the top of my head). I'm not sure what he did on, say, "Training Montage" from SPACECAMP and other examples. Williams has always been far more reserved than, say, Goldsmith in his use of synths (thankfully so, Goldsmith had no clue about what he was doing), but I would think it was mapped out beforehand.

For A.I., was that part of Joseph Williams' contribution? I'll give "Training Montage" a listen.

Ok, wow, Training Montage is like no John Williams cue I've ever heard before!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

Williams gives a loose description i.e. 'synth boob bam', 'sinister strings with slight phase', 'MIDI - Piano + Strings' etc. and Randy Kerber finds the sounds.

Makes sense, although I wonder how he decides he wants synth for a specific part at all. How does he know what kinds of sounds are out there? For example, in HP, how did he know he wanted a synth celeste vs a real one? Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but it just seems a bit high-tech for his sensibilities.

From what I've studied, one of the last scores Williams used a real celeste on was EMPIRE OF THE SUN. Around that time he must have been introduced to MIDI and digital sampler workstations such as the Emu Emulator series and the Ensoniq Mirage, since he even specifies a Mirage patch from a K-Muse hard disc called "2002 Voices" in a cue from THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK and writes "Xpander Vocal Sound" for a synth part in Cadillac of the Skies.

That's very rare for him.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Goldsmith had no clue about what he was doing

Huh? Since when is there a right way or wrong way to use synths?

Synth is only used correctly if it sounds like it does in pop music or new age Vangelis type music

[Incanus 5,715]

Williams usually seems to collaborate with the experts in synthesizers to achieve the more unusual or specific sounds, not go experimenting on his own like Goldsmith did and who was far more interested in the unusual sounds they could produce. I would guess that at this point people who have worked with JW on synths have formed similar short hand with him on synthesizer sounds as have the orchestrators when it comes to his style.

E.g. the celesta sound in Harry Potter was created with Randy Kerber, who seems to handle a lot of JWs synth work. If I remember correctly the heart beat-like "assassination motif" from Munich and the ethereal opening and closing synth music of War of the Worlds were done with some expert synth players, to whom the Maestro told what he wanted and they moulded the sounds until JW was satisfied with them. No doubt he has a specific sound in mind but he doesn't personally go about actualizing the sound. So he relies on the musicians on this stuff similarly as he acquainted himself with Japanese music and instruments in Memoirs of a Geisha through the players rather than enormous amount of Miklós Rózsa styled research.

[Thor 7,508]

Goldsmith had no clue about what he was doing

Huh? Since when is there a right way or wrong way to use synths?

Maybe I should have included an "IMO" at the end there.

By the way, HEARTBEEPS is another synth-heavy score by Williams. I wonder who realized the sounds and what directions Williams gave beforehand.

[indy4 155]

So he relies on the musicians on this stuff similarly as he acquainted himself with Japanese music and instruments in Memoirs of a Geisha through the players rather than enormous amount of Miklós Rózsa styled research.

Didn't he say in a Lincoln interview that he actually spent a lot of time researching American music of the 19th century?

[Incanus 5,715]

So he relies on the musicians on this stuff similarly as he acquainted himself with Japanese music and instruments in Memoirs of a Geisha through the players rather than enormous amount of Miklós Rózsa styled research.

Didn't he say in a Lincoln interview that he actually spent a lot of time researching American music of the 19th century?

I think Lincoln was a very special case in all respects to Williams, where he even more than usual wanted to make special and extra effort to strife for the right feel. In the end I would say he ended a bit like Rózsa, sounding very much like himself with familiar stylings of lyrical Coplandesque Americana mixed with his own style but perhaps even more reliant on the hymn-like melodic ideas as an homage to the times and musical modes.

[Smeltington 1,440]

Thanks for all the info, Prometheus and Incanus. Very interesting to know that he has written with such specific synth sounds in mind, even if it was only in rare instances.

[dylan345 3]

I'm curious how Williams would end up selecting such things as synth samples in his scores. It seems awfully "modern" for him. Is this the kind of thing he would consult with an engineer or somebody about during the composing process?

Williams gives a loose description i.e. 'synth boob bam', 'sinister strings with slight phase', 'MIDI - Piano + Strings' etc. and Randy Kerber finds the sounds.

Makes sense, although I wonder how he decides he wants synth for a specific part at all. How does he know what kinds of sounds are out there? For example, in HP, how did he know he wanted a synth celeste vs a real one? Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but it just seems a bit high-tech for his sensibilities.

From what I've studied, one of the last scores Williams used a real celeste on was EMPIRE OF THE SUN. Around that time he must have been introduced to MIDI and digital sampler workstations such as the Emu Emulator series and the Ensoniq Mirage, since he even specifies a Mirage patch from a K-Muse hard disc called "2002 Voices" in a cue from THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK and writes "Xpander Vocal Sound" for a synth part in Cadillac of the Skies.

That's very rare for him.

Williams used a real Celeste in harry potter in the library scene. He used both synth Celestes and real ones in jurassic park and hook, but the synth one far more often.

[Smeltington 1,440]

Dude! I need to go check out that library cue, then. Thanks for the info.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

Goldsmith had no clue about what he was doing

Huh? Since when is there a right way or wrong way to use synths?

Synth is only used correctly if it sounds like it does in pop music or new age Vangelis type music

Didn't JG arrange and perform "Runaway" in its entirety? I don't call that "not having a clue"! Thor, I suppose you think that "Witness" is trash, too?! Oh, the shame!

Back to JW:- what synth plays on "Everybody Runs!" (it's the scene where Tom Cruise says "It's Witwer. He set me up!")?

What was the first film that JW used a synth on? My guess it was the ARP on "ANH". I do not count the Fender Rhodes on "Cinderella Liberty".

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Back to JW:- what synth plays on "Everybody Runs!" (it's the scene where Tom Cruise says "It's Witwer. He set me up!")?

Not sure. Someone ought to ask Randy Kerber on Facebook.

As with nearly all of Williams post late-80s scores, it's probably a MIDI stack (i.e. one synth sound or sample layered with another - like the synth celesta Randy made is a combination of a pure sine wave over a Yamaha DX7 bell tone).

What was the first film that JW used a synth on? My guess it was the ARP on "ANH". I do not count the Fender Rhodes on "Cinderella Liberty".

Like Goldsmith, Barry, Schifrin etc. Williams used a lot of Yamaha combo organs (which were in fact early synths) in the early to mid 70s, like Yamaha YC-30 and EX-42. Think POSEIDON ADVENTURE, EIGER SANCTION, JAWS etc. I believe FAMILY PLOT used an Arp 2600.