Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Did Lucas tell off McDiarmid "you're not acting stiff and boring enough!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarpia 132 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I think Ian McDiarmid did a superb job in all the prequels. He always puts that edge in delivering his lines and the look in his eyes so you trust and don't trust him at the same time. Palpatine is definitely my favourite character in the prequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 4 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said: I love the scene where Palpatine becomes the Emperor. It was certainly helped not only by Williams' score, but also McDiarmid's awesomely over the top acting This scene is probbaly the best of the prequels, and I think rivals the highlights of the OT also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 On 29.12.2015 at 7:21 AM, Scarpia said: I think Ian McDiarmid did a superb job in all the prequels. He always puts that edge in delivering his lines and the look in his eyes so you trust and don't trust him at the same time. Palpatine is definitely my favourite character in the prequels. Yes he was by far one of the best things in the Prequels from his reserved senator persona and political double dealing to the cackling maniac Darth Sidious throwing senate pods around. Scarpia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,675 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I agree with BloodBoal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Those are my favourite moments! And don't forget this! Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 You reckon he was taking the piss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,059 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 That is entirely possible. But that, once again, makes it the most entertaining thing about prequel trilogy. Sad, really. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 "Are you going to kill me?" "I would certainly like to." "I know you would. I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. Makes you stronger!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 There was something oddly homoerotic about that dialogue. Especially coming from a single middle-aged-to-elderly man who gives off rather campy and effeminate vibes. crocodile and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It's awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yeah, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 While I don't miss the politics of the Prequels some additional background material on the current state of the galaxy could have been provided, which has been made available in other sources related to the film. 1) The Republic now has a capital that is yearly changed by a vote from one system to the next. Hosnian system which was destroyed by the Starkiller base was the current capital world of the Republic and housed the majority of their fleet. So the destruction wiped out not only the planet but Republic's current governing body and military power. I think this could have been explained with a sentence or two or even some actual mourning for the loss of the people there. 2) Leia was one of the founders of the Resistance, that is a separate (secretly Republic supported) organization outside the Republic's official military forces and Leia was not in too friendly terms with the more cautious current rulers who abhorred her active stance against the First Order. The chancellor of the Republic Lanever Villecham (at one time was going to appear in the film) was an appeaser, whose name reminds me of Neville Chamberlain, who might have been in part an inspiration for the character. He died on Hosnia Prime. 3) The Starkiller Base could move just like the Death Star although it was a planet sized superweapon and depleted entire star (or sun) with its main weapon when firing. Apparently the First Order had an obsession to show they could build another superweapon in the style of the Empire but even bigger and better. Again one could argue that the destruction of the base depleted the First Order's resources significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 #1 and #3 were obvious weren't they? Dialogue clearly states the First Order destroyed the Republic government. And since the Starkiller completely drains a stars energy before firing it HAS to be possible for it to travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 They are the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Lucas came up with the name Starkiller. Its all his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well it should have been! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: The Starkiller doesn't drain a star's energy, but a sun's energy. Should have been called the Sunkiller. 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: Not really. A sun is a star, sure, but not all stars are suns. So, if the Starkiller can only drain the energy from a sun, it cannot drain the energy from all kinds of stars. Thus its name is inaccurate. Sunkiller it is, then. "Sun" word is used to describe star in the center of our solar system. And yes - there are various types of stars, but there is only one Sun. Starkiller is perfectly accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The closer we come to an atmosphere with only one sun... a yellow sun, our dense molecular structure gives us unlimited powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,675 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 2 hours ago, BloodBoal said: Not really. A sun is a star, sure, but not all stars are suns. So, if the Starkiller can only drain the energy from a sun, it cannot drain the energy from all kinds of stars. Thus its name is inaccurate. Sunkiller it is, then. Who's to say that it this fictional flying planet can't draw energy from any star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaguy 68 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Indeed... It's not like anyone mentions that "The Animalkiller" can kill Giraffes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I've seen someone describe Kylo Ren (AKA Millennial Vader) as "essentially a school shooter who killed his school mates and joined up with ISIS", so certain socio-parallels haven't gone unnoticed. That said, the First Order-as-ISIS parallels were more explicit in earlier cuts of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 ISIS rather then the Nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 On 29/12/2015 at 7:12 AM, indy4 said: This scene is probbaly the best of the prequels, and I think rivals the highlights of the OT also McDiarmid is much, much better in ROTJ, but he absolutely kills the opera/Plagueis scene, which is also the only bit in the film where Tom Stoppard's contribution is noticeable. 14 minutes ago, Stefancos said: ISIS rather then the Nazis? Well, there's the Nuremberg Rally scene and General Hux's speech, but Kylo's backstory (including his conversion to the faith by Supreme Imam Snoke, the formation of the Knights of Ren and the massacre of Luke's students), and the Oedipal relationship with his parents--all of these call to mind certain current events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Massacre of Luke's students? Where is that mentioned in the film? I thought Kylo Ren turned them to the Dark Side as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Stefancos said: #1 and #3 were obvious weren't they? Dialogue clearly states the First Order destroyed the Republic government. And since the Starkiller completely drains a stars energy before firing it HAS to be possible for it to travel. Those were to an extent obvious things but they were left quite vague. Finn exclaiming "That was the Republic!" is of course just the character relaying simplified crux of the matter to the audience but it would have been nice if they had mentioned that it surely was not the whole Republic. I did not need an extensive elaboration of their politics but perhaps a few more sentences of explanation why Hosnian system was so vital to the Republic. Destruction of their government and fleet along with billions of people could have been mentioned with a couple of sentences. It surely would have raised the stakes to know the Resistance was basically alone without any chance of help from the government. Starkiller base is never seen moving nor do they infer that it could at any point in the film. We are just shown how the super weapon, unlike Death Star's, could strike across vast distances so it didn't have to be "in range" to be able to fire. As it devours stars (or suns, who cares, it is just a storytelling conceit), it would surely need to move to another power source so it would of course be ridiculous if the station/planet was statonary. It would drain its power source in a single shot and be basically useless after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Huh? In his speech Hux clearly states that the intent is to destroy the government of the Republic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,507 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Sorry Stefan but not all of that was obvious, no. The film certainly does not even come close to explaining that the Republic changes their Capital every year from one system to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I never said that. Learn to read Jason, really. I said that it seemed perfectly clear that The First Order intended to destroy the Republic's Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,507 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 It is you who are not reading properly. You said "#1 and #3 were obvious weren't they?" And Inky's #1 explained the whole "yearly change" thing. Something I had never heard about before I read Inky's post. So I thank Inky for providing me with that cool piece of information! I like the bit about the Resistance not being fully sanctioned by the Republic either, and how Leia founded it as an offshoot, and the guy who Leia fought most with is now dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I never said that. Learn to read Jason, really. I said that it seemed perfectly clear that The First Order intended to destroy the Republic's Government. Yes of course but the extent of the destruction is never elaborated upon. We see a planet destroyed yes, along with its moons but there is almost no consequence to it. Republic is not one planet though so I was a bit confused was this the new capital and where is it and how would this affect the galaxy. We do not know the Hosnian system's significance so we don't know exactly what just happened and how serious it is. Alas it also does not seem to affect anyone in any way. They just go on business as usual. It is like Leia and the Resistance just go "Oh huh, the Republic's governing body and military might has been destroyed. Well I expected that really. Let's go destroy the evil starbase." Not that I mind too much. It is a tall tale where the emphasis surely lies elsewhere. It also lets the audience do some serious reading between the lines and making their own inferences on the scant information provided, which I kind of liked for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 They didn't destroyed one planet and some moons. They destroyed the whole system, according to dialogue in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,675 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 If you put too much world-building information in, you start to have people complaining about Trade Dispute Plotlines. I think they gave us all the information about the politics of the new Star Wars universe that they felt was relevant to the plot and characters in this movie. Opening crawl briefly defining the Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order Hux and the First Order yelling about defeating the republic--->shooting lasers---->planet blows up--->"The Republic!" Blowing up the Republic government was essentially this movie's version of "The Emperor has dissolved the Senate permanently" - it removes the politics and makes this series a desperate fight between two warring factions. The information about how the now-exploded Republic had been run, or how Leia and the Resistance were on the outs with the government, were not relevant to the movie, but make for interesting factoids in the novelization and Visual Guide, and likely will come more into play in spin-offs that take place between ROTJ and TFW (film, television, novel, comic, video game, etc) for those of us (me) who are nerds/Star Wars sponges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 7 minutes ago, Stefancos said: They didn't destroyed one planet and some moons. They destroyed the whole system, according to dialogue in the movie. Again I was little confused what that accomplished really. Yes horrible loss of life but what does it mean in galactic scale? I didn't even know they killed the governing body of the Republic there, even less that the whole fleet was destroyed. That would really raise the stakes as the Republic would be basically crippled and ready for the taking. The movie gets its point across of course but it leaves a lot to the audience to infer or glosses such info over entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 While I think the Starkiller scene is under dramatized, despite John Williams' best efforts music wise, I never had any doubt to what was going on here. The First Order destroying the seat of power of the Republic. It's this films version of the scene where Grand Moff Tarkin says that the Emperor has disbanded the Senate, thereby destroying the last remnants of the old Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,732 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, Stefancos said: While I think the Starkiller scene is under dramatized, despite John Williams' best efforts music wise, I never had any doubt to what was going on here. The First Order destroying the seat of power of the Republic. It's this films version of the scene where Grand Moff Tarkin says that the Emperor has disbanded the Senate, thereby destroying the last remnants of the old Republic. And seeing the destruction of Alderaan. Alas it has less effect in the new film as there isn't a single person who acknowledges the loss. At least in Star Wars Leia had a personal connection to the planet to give it significance. I don't mean that people should be lying on the ground at the Resistance base crying uncontrollably but some form of acknowledgement that this was a big deal for the Resistance too would have been nice. Perhaps J.J. decided to leave that to the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 6 minutes ago, MikeTroxell said: Blowing up the Republic government was essentially this movie's version of "The Emperor has dissolved the Senate permanently" - it removes the politics and makes this series a desperate fight between two warring factions. Indeed but I think the idea itself and some others like the cheaply glossed over explanation of the force rely heavily on our history of understanding those ideas and concepts from previous episodes, most notably the original SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Incanus said: And seeing the destruction of Alderaan. Alas it has less effect in the new film as there isn't a single person who acknowledges the loss. At least in Star Wars Leia had a personal connection to the planet to give it significance. I don't mean that people should be lying on the ground at the Resistance base crying uncontrollably but some form of acknowledgement that this was a big deal for the Resistance too would have been nice. Perhaps J.J. decided to leave that to the audience. The scene focuses on one black woman who was apparently the leader of the senate and had some scenes in the film where she conversed with Leia. Since those scenes were cut, we never knew anyone on that planet, not anyone in the cast seems to know anyone there. I wonder if deleted scenes will make in onto the Blu? 4 minutes ago, steb74 said: Indeed but I think the idea itself and some others like the cheaply glossed over explanation of the force rely heavily on our history of understanding those ideas and concepts from previous episodes, most notably the original SW. The Force Awakens very much assumed that you will have seen Star Wars at some point in your life and are familiar with the basics. Wether they are right ot wrong to do so depends on your perspective. Though the box-office numbers ans video sales certainly supports this arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Arrogance? ...come man, stop being silly. What are the basics then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Some people complained in 81 that TESB assumed everyone had seen Star Wars and they didn't need to really reintroduce the characters or the situation. TFA does essentially the same thing. It takes it as read that people who go and see it know who or what Luke, Leia, Han the Force etc are and doesn't bother re-explaining them. But i bet precious few people will go to the cinema and see TFA without ever having seen the others. mstrox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well the First Order obviously started as the military of the Republic. But drifted away from them as the Dark Side encroached. Essentially leaving the Republic with an army. Hence the Resistance was born. Fighting for the Republic Not unlike Charles De Gaules resistance army during WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 23 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Some people complained in 81 that TESB assumed everyone had seen Star Wars and they didn't need to really reintroduce the characters or the situation. TFA does essentially the same thing. It takes it as read that people who go and see it know who or what Luke, Leia, Han the Force etc are and doesn't bother re-explaining them. But i bet precious few people will go to the cinema and see TFA without ever having seen the others. I mentioned in another post that I have a load of friends who I grew up with, male and female that were never interested in SW and a big percentage who've never seen any of the movies. Now with kids though, they find themselves having their first SW cinematic experience. Multiply that by ......well I don't know how many people and I'm sure that there are countless thousands watching SW for the first time. There are also many who are watching the whole saga for the first time now, so for many people a lot of the ideas and concepts are still fresh in their mind. TFA capitalises heavily on the groundwork done by the OT, which is very different than each movie of the OT relying on ideas from only 3 or 6 six earlier. The characters and ideas from the movies were also much more ingrained into the public consciousness back then as they were still relatively current. I'm a huge fan of TFA, I've watched it many times but it's also a very cheeky movie in what it assumes of the viewer and JJ preventing other story tellers from playing with the sandcastles by kicking them down. As for Empire, you didn't even watch it when it was first released let alone have any real idea about the general sentiment, praise or criticisms about it at that time. I did watch it back then and I do remember the feelings and general reactions. You can't use opinions that you've 'heard' many years after the fact as your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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