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Bespin

JW Discography - His Re-recorded OSTs

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Hi experts,

 

My website tries to document the OST albums that contains a "Re-recording" (you can search using this keyword in the main albums page).

 

Example:

 

p_cl1591.jpg

 

Checkmate [Original Music from The CBS-TV Show] (1960, Columbia, CL 1591, Re-recording)

Theme From Checkmate; The Isolated Pawn; Cyanide Touch; Far Out Place; Hassle In The Castle; En Passant; The Black Night; Fireside Eyes; The Bishop's Retreat; Queen's Sacrifice; Shy Youth; The King Swings.

So I would like to know if some are missing on my page.

 

Any help someone?

 

http://www.goplanete.com/johnwilliams/music/disco/albums.htm

 

 

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I documented 1982 E.T. OST as "Mainly featuring concert arrangements based on the film's music, but this is not a re-recording."

 

I think what... 5 tracks out of 7 are concert suites? It is an exception in his disco, enough to be documented... even if it's not a re-recording.

 

In the case of Dracula, do we know how many tracks are concerts suites among the eleven that are on the OST?

 

In the case of Jane Eyre, by example, the film tracks vs suites are near half and half I think. Well, not enough for me to point it out.  And we don't have access to the score... so the case is clear.

 

But in the case of E.T., we take the 1982 OST album and then the 1996 CD... we are facing two very different artistic projects. It is why in the disco, I count them as two "original" albums.

 

1 hour ago, Richard said:

Not sure what you want, here, Bes, but...if you take away the fact that a

re-recording cannot be an OST...

THE EIGER SANCTION

THE FURY

EARTHQUAKE

JAWS

E.T. (partial)

THE MISSOURI BREAKS

DRACULA (partial)

 

 

 

 

Fury, Jaws and Missouri are already markes as "re-recordings".

 

Anyone confirm Eiger & Eartquake?

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Dracula is all film cues, some are just alternate compared to the film version like any other OST CD

 

With ET 3 tracks are film cues - 6 Million Light Years From Home, ET Phone Home, Adventure on Earth - 2 are concertized versions of film cues (like The Forest Battle or Adventures of Mutt) - Abandoned and Pursued, ET's Halloween - and 3 are concert arrangements of themes - ET and Me, Flying, and Over The Moon.

 

There's no reason to include any kind of unique notation for either OST.  All of Johnny's OSTs are a combination of film cues and stuff he records just for the album.

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Well 5 tracks out of 8, it's over the majority. That's special I think. So it's worth mentioning.

 

Anyway, I document what I want, it's my disco. :P

 

I learned the hard way the concept of re-recordings on this forum, know I try to document it for the new fans to come. It doesn't have to be "secret" anymore.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Well 5 tracks out of 8, it over the majority. That's special I think. It's worth mentioning.

 

No, because its not a RE-recording.  He didn't go back months later with some other orchestra and record those things.  It was all done at the same time - meaning written at the same time, orchestrated at the same time, recorded at the same time, performed by the same orchestra...

 

And while you are thinking its 5 out of 8 tracks, look at the TIMES: 22+ minutes worth are film cues, and under 18 minutes are concert arrangements.  So what?   Why does that warrant special notation?

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Everything on the OST matches the sheet music of the film cues.  


I always assumed people used to think it was a re-recording because it didn't match exactly what was in the film, but in reality that was only because they didn't know when the OST was seguing from one cue to another, when maybe the second cue might not have been used in the film so to them they thought it was a re-recording extension JW made (like all the extensions he made for the Jaws re-recordings).

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I've never seen the film either, but there are mistakes in liner notes from all labels all the time.

 

In the end, only a small number of John Williams albums are truly complete re-recordings, done with a different orchestra in a different room with a different sound engineer than the original film recordings.

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2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

I wonder what I'm doing here with all these phony fans... :sarcasm:

 

@Bespin I'm not as old as you.  I haven't had enough free time (or money) in my life yet to watch every movie John Williams has scored.  Sorry.

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16 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

So you have seen the film? Was the score different than whats on the OST? Please "true fan"! Tell us!

 

I'm deeply sorry, but John Williams is only my third passion! I do all these comparisons with Charles Aznavour and Roy Orbison... spotting the alt tracks... the rarities... Trust me, it keeps me busy... their discographies are nightmares.

 

So, no, I don't have time to do it with John Williams too.

 

I count on you fans!!! :)

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As far as I know,  there's only nine JW albums released for films (or TV in the case of Checkmate) that were actually re-recordings, and not the original film tracks.

 

1961 - Checkmate

1963 - Diamond Head

1966 - How To Steal A Million

1966 - Not With My Wife, You Don't!

1966 - Penelope [Though, the title song was the same as the film recording]

1967 - Fitzwilly

1975 - Jaws

1976 - The Missouri Breaks

1978 - The Fury


Every other John Williams film OSTs are the actual recordings used in that film, usually plus additional material written and recorded at the same time just for the album.

 

There you go Bespin, all done!

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Woops you're right; Added it to my list.

 

 

 

 

It's interesting to note that 6 of the 9 eventually had their film recordings released:

 

1966 - How To Steal A Million - Premiered in 2008 by Intrada 42 years later!
1966 - Not With My Wife, You Don't! - Premiered in 2011 by Film Score Monthly 45 years later!
1967 - Fitzwilly - Premiered in 2013 by Music Box Records 46 years later!
1975 - Jaws - Premiered incomplete in 2000 by Decca 25 years later, complete in 2015 by Intrada 40 years later!
1976 - The Missouri Breaks - a few cues premiered 1999 by Rykodisc 23 years later; The whole thing premiered 2013 by Kritzerland 37 years later!
1978 - The Fury - Premiered 2002 by Varese 24 years later! (now in print since 2013 by La-La Land)

 

While for 3 of them, we only have the LP re-recording to listen to

 

1961 - Checkmate 56 years and counting!
1963 - Diamond Head 54 years and counting!
1966 - Penelope [Though, the title song was the same as the film recording] 51 years and counting!

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I've seen DRACULA twice, but it's been so long since the last time, I can't remember anything in terms of differences between that and the album (to be honest, it's not really a topic that interests me very much).

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4 minutes ago, Bespin said:

So I have the same list as you.

 

But I wonder for Dracula, for The Reveirs, the Cowboys... Eiger & Earthquake.

 

I have no reason to think those albums are anything beyond the usual "combination of film cues + stuff he recorded just for the album" like most all of his OSTs.


Those are also 5 movies I've never seen!

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Someday I'll see every film JW has scored.  I'm slowly collecting them all on blu ray too.  In fact I recently bought The Cowboys and Stanley and Iris and look forward to seeing each for the first time.

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Hmmm, this has gotten me thinking.  Does this mean that - apart from the title song of Penelope - the first time John's actual film recordings were released for purchase were

 

1967 - The Valley of the Dolls

and 

1968 - Heidi

 

?

 

I've never seen The Valley of the Dolls, nor listened to its score.  Looking at the album track listing, could it be a re-recording too?

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10 minutes ago, Jay said:

I've never seen The Valley of the Dolls, nor listened to its score.  Looking at the album track listing, could it be a re-recording too?

 

Well, it's in the years where re-recordings where the standard.... This Valley of the Dolls is an unloved one.. not many reissues... it's actually like the poor child of the JW discography. I never heard a clean recording of it.

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And the whole "theme from (reprise)" looks suspicious too!

 

Anybody here ever compared that album to the film?

 

 

 

Thinking about this more:

 

If the Valley of the Dolls OST IS a re-recording, then that means Heidi is the first album to include his actual film recordings (though additional material was recorded in London to supplement the Germany-recorded film cues)...... though, since it was a TV movie, that would mean the first album to contain the film recordings for a THEATRICAL film he scored would be......

 

1969 - Goodbye Mr. Chips

and

1969 - The Reivers

 

And since Mr. Chips is a musical, the first real PROPER one would be The Reivers.  How about that!

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8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Anyone who's actually seem the film that can confirm or deny?

 

Yeah. I saw DRACULA at The Empire Leicester Square, in September, 1979. I noticed that the main title was different, and that DRACULA'S DEATH is extended.

Ok... My perception of "rerecording" might be different from some people's , but I still maintain that some of what one hears on some of JW's 60s-80's scores contain music (or arrangements of music) that is not in the film. That's my interpretation of "rerecording". Technically, it's not the same, but its my use of language, and I'm sticking with it :P

Steef, I'm surprised that you don't own DRACULA, on DVD, or Blu, just for the score?

 

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5 hours ago, Richard said:

That's my interpretation of "rerecording".

 

At the end, all I want to document is: is there 1 album or 2 you need to collect, to have EVERYTHING from a particular score.

 

Take the "Star Wars Special Edition" CD... if you have it, you don't necessarily have to dig for the original 2-LP set. You already have pretty much "ALL" (well, except some edited cues, of course).

 

But in the case of Jaws, E.T., well all the 9 we already listed... owning the plain first "Expanded set" isn't sufficient (eg. the 1996 E.T. CD or the 2000 Jaws CD)... you really have to dig for the OST album to get EVERYTHING.

 

In the discography, I really wanted to point this fact out. Also, when an original score is released for the first time, it's mentioned with those keywords: "Previously unreleased original score".

 

Now this concept is more easy to uderstand with the recent Expanded Set CDs, as they usually have a disc dedicated to the "Original (re-recorded or not) album", when it's relevant.

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7 hours ago, Richard said:

Yeah. I saw DRACULA at The Empire Leicester Square, in September, 1979. I noticed that the main title was different, and that DRACULA'S DEATH is extended.

 

For the Main Title, the OST track only contains 1M1 Main Title and 1M2 the storm, while the film also includes an insert (1M1 Badham Ending). So that's why it's different. 

 

For Dracula's Death, the OST track snips out bars 18-41 of the original composition, and the film dials another part out, so that's why they're different. 

 

These kinds of thing happen with film and OST versions all the time, and have nothing to do with re recording things. 

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