Elmo Lewis 6 Posted April 4, 2004 Share Posted April 4, 2004 If there's one thing Williams is famous for...-Ross, who doesn't really recall any thread explicitly on the subject.P.S. I know how debatable the inclusion of Superman is, but I figured it also qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Are we talking films rather than scores here?Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I dunno. Star Wars for scale, Indiana Jones for pure fun and comedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Indiana Jones by a mile and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eplicon 53 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 At least Indiana Jones had the most satisfying "part three" of its trilogy. The rapport between Indy & his dad was much better than Luke & his dad, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Indiana Jones would be my favourite, followed very closely by Star Wars and Harry Potter. Superman and Jaws, being great films on their own, don't even count as sagas to me because of their abysmal sequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Hey, do the Harry Potter books count, or are we focusing on just movies.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Films probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Yeah that makes sense since that's what they all have in common . . . Star Wars would be my choice if it was only the original trilogy, but since we're dealing with the series as a whole I'll have to go with Indy. Jurassic Park is actually my favorite film from the list, but its sequels (especially the third) rule it out. And the Harry Potter films are good too. If it were a choice of series regardless of medium, then it'd be the Harry Potter books, no contest.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Star Wars, because that saga had enormous potential (it even has no need for the same principal characters) and because it produced two milestones. Why two? Star Wars is a milestone. The other milestone is The Empire Strikes Back because is it one of those extremely rare cases where a sequel equals or surpasses the original movie.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Where's The Godfather? Surely the most revered saga in cinema history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Eh, I'd rather watch The Sopranos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted April 5, 2004 Author Share Posted April 5, 2004 Are we talking films rather than scores here?Yes, I was going for films. I didn't really stop to think that your favorite saga music-wise might not be your favorite saga cinematographically. Good distinction.Where's The Godfather? Surely the most revered saga in cinema history!Well, yes. But I have good proof that "Nino Rota" is not a pseudonym for "John Williams". Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Godfather Saga is certainly better than Jaws, Harry Potter or Superman, but the Indy films are all great, and in The Godfather saga it's one amazing, one very good, and one above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 and the Godfather Pt. 1 is perfection, and The Sopranos will never in a million years be anywhere near as great as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The Godfather is slow and boring... :roll: And I liked the deer hunter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Neither is slow and boring. And much more happens in the Godfather, than the Deer Hunter, and they're both among the greatest movies ever (Godfather is my absolute faorite among others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The second Indy was too bombastic (negative sense of the word) to be great. I wanted to get up and leave the theatre. It is too fast, almost suffocating, and missed the epic grandeur of the first one with many story elements dangerously close to being stupid. It was too much and everything/everyone was way over the top. There's not much good to be found in "overkill". I remember them saying during interviews and promo tours that they wanted to make up for that with The last Crusade, which would lean more closely to the original spirit of the first one. Despite Spielberg's attempts with The Last Crusade, the Indy series provided us with only one truly great movie which is Raiders of the Last Ark. ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 And The Last Crusade. And those 2 movies are the great of greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The second Indy was too bombastic (negative sense of the word) to be great.I DEFINATLY disagree there.I wanted to get up and leave the theatre. It is too fast, almost suffocating,Like a carnival ride, great, isn't it... and missed the epic grandeur of the first one with many story elements dangerously close to being stupid. It was too much and everything/everyone was way over the top.For me the main reason why I love that film is BECAUSE is goes blisfgully over the top, and does it with so much style and energy... There's not much good to be found in "overkill". I remember them saying during interviews and promo tours that they wanted to make up for that with The last Crusade, which would lean more closely to the original spirit of the first one.Cowards, they had to endure a lot of crap becuase of the so called violence in that film.Despite Spielberg's attempts with The Last Crusade, the Indy series provided us with only one truly great movie which is Raiders of the Last Ark. Correction, THREE great films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The second Indy was too bombastic (negative sense of the word) to be great.I DEFINATLY disagree there.I wanted to get up and leave the theatre. It is too fast, almost suffocating,Like a carnival ride, great, isn't it... and missed the epic grandeur of the first one with many story elements dangerously close to being stupid. It was too much and everything/everyone was way over the top.For me the main reason why I love that film is BECAUSE is goes blisfgully over the top, and does it with so much style and energy... There's not much good to be found in "overkill". I remember them saying during interviews and promo tours that they wanted to make up for that with The last Crusade, which would lean more closely to the original spirit of the first one.Cowards, they had to endure a lot of crap becuase of the so called violence in that film.Despite Spielberg's attempts with The Last Crusade, the Indy series provided us with only one truly great movie which is Raiders of the Last Ark. Correction, THREE great films. The man knows what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 But I haven't heard why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 BTW, it's those wild roller coaster rides that makes so many of today's movies trivial and forgetabble. It all tastes like half-popped popcorn. I love Spielberg and early Lucas but I hate what they brought about. The fast-paced action jackson ride is a difficult beast to control, even if your name is Spielberg (see 1941, Temple of Doom).-----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 But I haven't heard why.I love TOD because it's a wonderfull ecxiting and dark ride, great cast, good story, wonderfull pace, brilliant score and chilled monekey brains.Possible the finest piece of escapist cinema ever made.I love TLC because it's so fun, Ford and Connery are in top form, it was a good story, great music and catacombs in Venice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 It was supposed to go ridiculesly ove the top, it's supposed to move at a dizzying speed (the one scene where it slows down really sticks out), and it certainly does have an epic grandeur, although not as much as Raiders. And I don't think it was overkill. And IMO The Last Crusade is one of the greatest entertainments ever, almost as good as Raiders and as much fun as any movie ever (and IMO as funny as most comedies). And I love Lucas for defending TOD despite Spielberg sort of disowening it. It is the last good thing he did (then Willow came, and ruined him for good). I think we see basicaly the same things in it, just we see them positevely and you don't. EDIT: I love TOD because it's a wonderfull ecxiting and dark ride, great cast, good story, wonderfull pace, brilliant score and chilled monekey brains. That basically sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Well, you don't have to agree with me. I have Spielberg already doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Meaning what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Meaning...Alien is better than Alien: Resurrection, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 And TESB is better then SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I love TOD because it's a wonderfull ecxiting and dark ride, great cast, good story, wonderfull pace, brilliant score and chilled monekey brains. I used to think that, when I was 12, recently, I saw it on DVD though.... and was not impressed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 WOW...you actually own it on DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 On 2, DVD-R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Figures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I rented it, they still got money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 And I love Lucas for defending TOD despite Spielberg sort of disowening it. It is the last good thing he did (then Willow came, and ruined him for good).Many would argue that Lucas was ruined the year before with Return of the Jedi. I certainly think that, and thank Spielberg for salvaging the Indy films. Lucas needs great people to work with. People like Gary Kurtz, Marcia Lucas and of course, Steven Spielberg. Creative people who are not just simple "Yes Men". When he doesn't, you wind up with Radioland Murders, The Star Wars Holiday Special and of course.........the prequels.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 Many would argue that Lucas was ruined the year before with Return of the Jedi.I think 1983 was the beginning of the end, as ROTJ is still a good film with moments of greatness. I would mark 1986 (Howard the Duck) as being Lucas' creative death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 But ROTJ was full of premonitions, a window on the Lucas to come, and I'm putting it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 But ROTJ was full of premonitions, a window on the Lucas to come...Which is why I think its the beginning of the end. Lucas was starting to lose it, and it would only get worse.I voted for Star Wars, by the way. I still love the whole saga and, despite the prequels shortcomings and poor execution, the six-part story of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader is still very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 the six-part story of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader is still very cool.There is no six part story about Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader...and there never will.The first 3 films, made in 1997, 1980 and 1983 were about Luke Skywalker.Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I chose Star Wars based on the sheer volume of music of the 5 and soon to be six films, or should I say 4 films and 2 digitazations. Star Wars is perfection in film music, and ESB is near perfection. ROTJ is very good, as is TPM, and there is AOTC.Princess Leia's Theme, Ben's Death, Throne Room, Star Wars Main title, Imperial March, Asteroid field, Rebel Fleet, ROTJ, Into the Trap, Duel of the Fates, Anakin's Theme(Imperial March interpolated) and AOTC endtitle, are all very good, and most absolutely great.Now if John scores more Harry Potter films, then I could change my mind. Harry Potter has produced some remarkable themes, and even if John didn't do the complete COS, he provided Fawkes, and the COS themes, both outstanding pieces of film music, and Hedwig's theme, especially the last 52 seconds is amazing stuff. Like Pavlov's dog, I am salavating, waiting for POA's score.If Indy IV happens and John writes a truely amazing score I could lean that way. I think Raiders and TOD are perfect scores, and LC is ok too. Raiders March, Desert Chase, Parade of the Slave Children(I know its a concert version), TOD finale(best endtitle of the 3 films, I really don't understand Alex's missgivings on this perfect score), The Penitent Man will Pass. These are all incredible works of music and art.Even Jurassic Park and Lost World are two fantastic scores. I find myself listening to Lost World all the time. In fact I listen to Lost World more than any of John's scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 In fact I listen to Lost World more than any of John's scores.Brilliant isnt it.The last GREAT action score Williams has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrScratch 294 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 The first 3 films, made in 1997, 1980 and 1983 were about Luke Skywalker.So you prefer ANH:SE over the original 1977 version? Jeff - who is only kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 I really don't understand Alex's missgivings on this perfect scoreWait a minute, I thought this was about the films? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted April 5, 2004 Share Posted April 5, 2004 But ROTJ was full of premonitions, a window on the Lucas to come, and I'm putting it mildly.No, the 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special was full of premonitions. Can Star Wars really be this bad? 5 years later we found out. Yes, it can. The SE's and the Prequels only sealed the deal.Neil - who will not be going to a screening of the SE's next month, even though it's only 30 minutes from my house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Neil, you always seem to be so eager to ignore TESB.It's a brilliant film, and George Lucas played a very large part in creating it.I know you really would like to believe that the first film was the only good one of the franchise...but it really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 But everyone else here goes with the thought that TESB is a perfect film which it isn't. Its almost as good as Star Wars which means both are wonderful things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Can anyone tell me the exact reason why TESB is flawed? I say they are both great. ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I think the ending is my biggest gripe. I think is lags once it gets to Daggobah, and Cloud City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I disagree with those points.I love the ending, though people in 1980 must have found it very annoying.Kinda like "That's all folks, seeya in 3 years!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Neil, you always seem to be so eager to ignore TESB.It's a brilliant film, and George Lucas played a very large part in creating it.No he didn't. He wasn't even on the set that much. Gary Kurtz was mainly trusted with bringing it to fruition. Lucas started to get involved with it more and more once the budget started going out of control (it was his money). Lucas wanted it to be financed entirely with his own money, but the production was so over budget that he had to go back to FOX to get more money. This was the end of Kurtz' relationship with Lucas. Notice that the films have not been the same since.Another tidbit is when Lucas came over to the set (he was staying in California during most of the production) and was not happy at all with what he was seeing, so he went in and personally re-edited the movie. Everyone hated it and his edit was scrapped.And besides, I said the Holiday Special was a premonition of how bad Star Wars could really be, and I said 5 years later. The Holiday Special was from 1978 and 5 years after that is 1983. How did I bash Empire?Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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