Dracula

[Figo 2]

My recent purchase (and subsequent trashing) of Earthquake has inspired me to revisit some of my other Varese reissues of Johnny's music from the 1970s. In particular, I've been listening to Dracula. How many of you, I wonder, think that they really missed the boat on that film? I remember I was so very excited by the trailer, especially with Langella leaping through that window and shapeshifting into a wolf! Yowzah! But then the movie came out, and it sucked. Of course, I never saw Langella's acclaimed portrayal on Broadway, and Laurence Olivier was about 107 when he played Van Helsing. Sadly, the filmmakers once again believed they had a better idea for the story than Bram Stoker, and the result was a stinky mess.

John Williams, at least, provided an effective score, even if it always impressed me as a little one-note. He comes up with a Dracula theme, and then he basically works it to death. Sure, it's a good theme, but not that good! Certainly not so good that it can sustain even a forty minute album. Still, the soundtrack is expertly crafted (if a little redundant), and it does come from the height of Williams' greatest period. If it lacks the complexity of his more famous projects, it is still richly imbued with the Williams sound. I remember the liner notes on the original album that lamented the fact that the great romantic composers missed a golden opportunity when they failed to write a Dracula opera. Sadly, the same could be said for Williams. He must have been pressed for time, because -- in light of the subject matter and Williams' unbelievable invention at that stage of his career -- this should have been one of his greatest scores.

Figo, really digging the orchestration of "Meeting in the Cave."

[tpigeon 3]

i have not seen the movie, i've looked for it to rent and cannot find it, and have never heard the score either. it's strange because i've heard so many different opinions about the score too. some think it is one of his best and most underrated works, whereas others think it is one the least engaging scores he's done. i only wish i could get my hands on it.

[Figo 2]

It's not a bad score. As I say, the orchestration is fun, and if I am able to ignore the fact that it's Dracula and try to imagine it as some incidental cue from an Indiana Jones movie, I like it all the more. But the fact remains that the one big theme cannot sustain the endless repetition. He needed a Dracula b-theme, or something.

[The Five Tones 302]

Definitely needed a b-theme, like how about a theme for the good guys/gals? I love "To Scarborough," and the wonderful climaxes in it and other tracks like the love scene music. "For Mina" is a nice lament. For me, the LSO's great performance makes up somewhat for the lack of thematic variety.

[Figo 2]

Anybody have an opinion on Wojciech Kilar's score for the other stinky Dracula? I always liked Kilar's concert music -- or at least I thought I did until I was exposed to a lot more of it -- so I had to leap at this opportunity to snap up one of his rare scores for a big-budget American movie. (Kilar does most of his scoring in his native Poland.)

I kind of like the dark Eastern European flavor of the music. It lacks the sheen and sentiment of most American scores. Instead of polish, we get Polish, and the music is none the worse for that. It's certainly creepier than Williams' Dracula. Once again, a film composer treads dangerously into Gustav Holst territory with "Vampire Hunters," but I think that can be overlooked. After all, it's not that much like Mars, although enough so that anyone who listens to it will draw the comparison. The disembodied wordless soprano is appropriately eerie, and some of the cues sound as if they could have been written for the kind of horror movie I always wound up catching at 2:00 in the morning back in the 1970s -- films like Lemora, the Lady Dracula.

Too bad Coppola's vision (and Oldman's portrayal) couldn't equal the terror and otherworldliness of Kilar's score. Why filmmakers insist on humanizing one of the greatest engines of evil in all of literature is beyond me. Coppola plays tricks with his retro miniatures and the Cocteau references, but it isn't enough to sustain what is more the director's Dracula than it is Stoker's.

Figo, who believes Dracula was one of the most exciting books he has ever read.

[Wickenstein 0]

Anybody have an opinion on Wojciech Kilar's score for the other stinky Dracula?  I always liked Kilar's concert music -- or at least I thought I did until I was exposed to a lot more of it -- so I had to leap at this opportunity to snap up one of his rare scores for a big-budget American movie.  (Kilar does most of his scoring in his native Poland.)

I own it. I think Kilar's work served the film very well. The love theme is moving and sad. It's got some frightening moments too that remind me of Goldsmith's Omen work, but still has its own feel to it. I don't really listen to the soundtrack that often though. It works great in the film but maybe doesn't make the best independent listening experience.

[QuintBrody 0]

I personally love Dracula the score although Williams does tend to overwork the theme. The orchestrations are top of the line. That is the period when John specifically used Herbert W. Spencer. I personally love The Meeting in the Cave, For Mina, and To Scarborough. The film still has a good amount of music that was not released which is why I personally want a re-release. Hopefully, other Williams fans will feel the same way and I will get what I am wishing for.

"Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies."

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Yeah Dracula was a very good score. I did not mind the theme overuse. Simply because Big John worked it around so many lovely different ways.

[Morn 8]

The score strongly reminds me of TESB. Especially the track City in the Clouds.

[ymenard 54]

Dracula was Williams' test bed for The Empire Strikes Back.

It's obvious (in a good way). It was just before, and the style of the movie, and the fact that he had never seen a Dracula movie before really helped him to test new orchestration methods he learned about and the extreme usage of leitmotiv.

It should be held in a greater way by us JW fans, as it's really an important landmark!

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Hmmmmmm I never thought about the "Dracula/ESB" connection. However, I can actually see that. Good observation!

[Figo 2]

Yes, agreed. I wish it had Empire's thematic richness.

While we're discussing Dracula, what are some of your other favorite horror scores? I have a soft spot for Waxman's The Bride of Frankenstein and, of course, Herrmann's Psycho. Any others?

[Morn 8]

Alien, The Bad Seed and Jaws

[Figo 2]

... and Jaws

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Favorite horror scores?? I usually don't go big into those but I'd say:

Psycho, Jaws, Dracula, Predator, and ummmmm I guess thats it.

When I get around to picking up Jaws 2 I'll probably add that.

[Figo 2]

I would definitely add The Thing, by Dimitri Tiomkin. Scares the bejeezus out of me.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Halloween, Dressed to Kill, Carrie, The Fury. Friday the 13th. Tourist Trap, the Howling.

Joe, who love Pino Donaggio, loves JW, loves the J Carpenter score, and really really likes the Harry Manfredini score to Friday the 13th, Kill, kill, Kill, ma, ma, ma.

[Ross 1]

Favorite horror scores?? I usually don't go big into those but I'd say:

Psycho,

You know, the maestro Williams himself said he thought Psycho wasn't a good score.

[Figo 2]

Next to Dracula? Are you kidding?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Favorite horror scores?? I usually don't go big into those but I'd say:

Psycho,

You know, the maestro Williams himself said he thought Psycho wasn't a good score.

When did he say that??

Stefancos- :wow:

[Justin 2]

I'm curious too.

Justin -Who thinks Psycho is an excellent score.

[Ross 1]

Favorite horror scores?? I usually don't go big into those but I'd say:

Psycho,

You know, the maestro Williams himself said he thought Psycho wasn't a good score.

When did he say that??

Stefancos- :wow:

In a interview in a Total Magazine issue from Sept. 1997 (I can transcript it once I get back home in two weeks). He said: "Psycho wasn't a good score but it was very effective". He says that Herrman's good ones are North by Northwest and so on.

It's a really interesting interview, although it's only about the usual topics: relationship with Steven Spielberg, Star Wars, the Prequel Trilogy, the success of Jaws and where does he get his inspiration.

I remember him saying something like treating the Jurassic Park action scenes as if it were a ballet with the dinosaurs bouncing and all.

-ROSS, who was a good memory

[Morn 8]

Well, he's wrong

Morn - Surprised Williams would say something like that for such a great score

[Ross 1]

Well, he's wrong    

Morn - Surprised Williams would say something like that for such a great score

Well, he did say so, I swear. Anybody back me up?

-ROSS

[Morn 8]

I can see why he might say it, it's very minimalist and subdued, but I find it hard to believe it coming from the mouth of Williams

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Are you sure that interview was correct??

Maybe they mis-quoted him or something.

[Chris 0]

Dracula is an amazing score - the Love Scene must be one of the most erotic pieces Mr Williams has ever scored! Just a pity that 'Bat Attack' didn't make it into the final cut of the movie. Does anyone know why it doesn't make an appearance?

[Lurker 5]

Anyone ever notice how similarly Frank Langella looked compared to John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever? Shouldn't be so surprising, considering that both films were directed by John Badham.

As for the score, it's definitely a winner. The Dracula theme is used a bit much, but it's better than most of the newer stuff Mr. Williams has written.

Neil

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Dracula is an amazing score - the Love Scene must be one of the most erotic pieces Mr Williams has ever scored!

Well that is kind of a LIMITED category for Williams. More like best in a category of 1.

This guy ain't exactly scoring Basic Instinct.

[Chris 0]

Fair point!!!! Still great though!

[Figo 2]

Anyone ever notice how similarly Frank Langella looked compared to John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever

Another dizzying insight from Neil! Yes, Badham definitely reused Travolta's hair for Dracula. However, Travolta learned from the experience, and was much more cautious when negotiating his contract on Pulp Fiction.

What is it about the films of John Badham? I mean, I usually enjoy them, but they are seldom really good. "Okay" is more like it. I enjoyed Capricorn One. Of course, Saturday Night Fever became legend. Both WarGames and Blue Thunder were back-to-back weak. Can anyone think of a really good Badham-directed movie? He certainly has no trouble finding work.

[Lurker 5]

What is it about the films of John Badham?  I mean, I usually enjoy them, but they are seldom really good.  "Okay" is more like it.  I enjoyed Capricorn One.  Of course, Saturday Night Fever became legend.  Both WarGames and Blue Thunder were back-to-back weak.  Can anyone think of a really good Badham-directed movie?  He certainly has no trouble finding work.

Capricorn One was directed by the other hack, Peter Hyams. Easy to confuse the two though.

I like WarGames. It's a fun film, though I think I was 7 when I first saw it, so that could influence my decision.

Neil

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Capricorn One?? That that dumb assed movie where they claim the Moon Landing was all a hoax?? That film sucked. Not a bad score though.

[Figo 2]

What?!!!!!!

How can any film in which O.J. devours a rattlesnake suck? And I suppose you believe the moon landing actually did take place? (I thought it was Mars, anyway?) The next thing you'll be telling us is that Oswald acted alone!

Figo, who suspects RL is a closetted Elliot Gould fan.

[Figo 2]

Thanks, Neil, for the clarification. Actually, now that I think about it, I do confuse Badham and Hyams! Who puked out the sequel to 2001? It was Hyams, wasn't it?

[Lurker 5]

Thanks, Neil, for the clarification.  Actually, now that I think about it, I do confuse Badham and Hyams!  Who puked out the sequel to 2001?  It was Hyams, wasn't it?

Yes, that was Hyams.

Speaking of Hyams, I am now firmly convinced that Outland takes place in the same universe as Alien. They look a lot alike (though not surprisingly, Alien looks much better) and both deal with greedy organizations. Throw in the fact that both have gory effects and Jerry Goldsmith scores as well.

Of course it could just be that Hyams was ripping off the design of Alien but considering the similarites between the two movies (at least superficially, as a film, Alien is far superior) it's easy to think of them taking place in the same narrative universe.

Neil

[Figo 2]

Oh, I always thought Outland took place in the Alien universe. In fact, there may be an actual connection. Did the two films share a common screenwriter or something? Dan O'Bannon, maybe? Somewhere in distant memory I seem to think there was an intentional similarity. What was the name of the corporation in Alien? Was it the same as that in Outland? There must be some sci-fi geek here who knows the answer.

[Lurker 5]

The corporation in Alien was Weyland-Yutani, though I think on a can of beer in the film it's "Weylan-Yutani". I also don't think the corporation is actually named until the second film.

Outland's organizatoin is "Con-Am".

I don't think the 2 movies share any of the same key creative personnel, and that the similarity is because of Peter Hyam's urge to imitate.

Neil

P.S. I just thought of another connection. Doesn't Steven Berkoff (the actor playing the drugged out guy who's going to kill the whore in Outland) bear a striking resemblance to Ian Holm's Ash in Alien?

[Figo 2]

Lord, I haven't seen Outland since the early '80s. I do remember thinking it looked similar to Alien, but then, within a few years, it seems that look pretty much became the norm in sci-fi. The future is rainy and bleak. All the more reason to take the gas pipe.

[Figo 2]

Re: Psycho.

If Williams didn't think it was so great, then why did he bother using it in his famous filmscore medley for the Academy Awards?

Oh wait a minute, he also used Titanic.

Seriously, maybe there's a little professional jealousy there. After all, the shower scene in Psycho is quite possibly the only musical cue in the whole history of cinema which is better known than Jaws.

Psycho

[Morn 8]

Better known that Jaws? Impossible.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Actually I feel the Psycho score isn't anything special, except for the shower moment. The shreek is well know, but no its not as well known as Jaws. People across the world know what a shark is, but many people through out the world have know clue to what a shower is. Or soap for that matter. LOL

[Morn 8]

That makes you a total loser then Joe.

If you can't see the beauty of that score, then how sad for you.

[Figo 2]

Oh Christ, the hackneyed shower music is at least as well known as Jaws. How many countless parodies have we endured? How many times has one of our deranged friends begun to imitate its shriek?

Sorry you don't appreciate Psycho, Joe. The main titles are terrific, and the atmospheric string writing has a lot of stark beauty to it. People the world over may not recognize soap, but surely they all recognize bloodcurdling terror.

Figo, who can really freak himself out in the shower.

[Ross 1]

Re:  Psycho.

If Williams didn't think it was so great, then why did he bother using it in his famous filmscore medley for the Academy Awards?

Oh wait a minute, he also used Titanic.    

Seriously, maybe there's a little professional jealousy there.  After all, the shower scene in Psycho is quite possibly the only musical cue in the whole history of cinema which is better known than Jaws.

Psycho

He DID say so!!!