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Official JWFan mock ups and fan-made recordings thread!

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Nice, wow, thanks! That second one is pretty interesting!! I always wanted to hear what was really going on with that "Twinkle". It's pretty interesting to hear it isolated and emphasiezed like that. 30 year old curiosity resolved. Thank you!

Slalom on Mt. Humol - nice, can't wait, another favorite of mine. :)

Maybe Bug Tunnel And Death Trap after that? :)

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For anyone who has the Omni Publishing book for The Matrix could someone mockup "4m2 The System" and "4m5s Ignorance Is Bliss (Source)"? 

 

I'd love to have Davis' only material for 4m2 and a not hissy version of the source cue.

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On December 4, 2015 at 7:11 PM, loert423 said:

Over the last week I mocked up the opening sequence of TOD. I did this mainly because I read TGP's advice that when you make an orchestral mockup, you should play the parts in in real time. Since I've never done so before, I decided to try it out with an "interesting" piece of music.

You can listen to it here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18637418/indytod.flac

I'm fairly happy with how it turned out, although since I've been doing virtually nothing but replaying portions over and over again over the past week my opinion can hardly be called objective... Are there any obvious improvements I can make to the overall mix? Any feedback at all would be much appreciated! :)

 

Sorry it's taken me so long to follow through on listening to this, but it seems like the file is gone anyway.

 

Oops never mind, it's just downloading instead of opening.  I'm don't computer very well.

 

Oh yeah, see, that's excellent.  It's actually musical, not mechanical, it breathes, it's phrased… great stuff!

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17 hours ago, loert423 said:

My arrangement of "March of the Resistance" for piano solo (from The Force Awakens):

 

 

Sheet music: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18637418/marchoftheresistance.pdf

 

Hope you all like it!

 

Great arrangement and performance! Not to be rude, but I *think* the C in measure 56 should be C# (that way, you have F# major (Gb major here) moving up to A# major in parallel motion).

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Thank you Alexander!

 

That bit had me stumped for some time. When I listen to the original I can't help but hear trombones playing Bb -> C -> Bb, not C#. And I think he's doing this to anticipate the final modulation to Bb minor (if it were C# = Db, the modulation wouldn't be as effective). I'm not 100% sure though - after all your version corresponds with the Rebel fanfare motif. I'm going to have to check that one with the full score when it is released!

 

9 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Sorry it's taken me so long to follow through on listening to this, but it seems like the file is gone anyway.

 

Oops never mind, it's just downloading instead of opening.  I'm don't computer very well.

 

Oh yeah, see, that's excellent.  It's actually musical, not mechanical, it breathes, it's phrased… great stuff!

 

Thank you! There are a couple of dodgy "drop-outs" which I did my best to fix, but on the whole I'm pleased with the result. And it's much more fun than simply putting the notes in in step!

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On 02/01/2016 at 6:35 PM, loert said:

My arrangement of "March of the Resistance" for piano solo (from The Force Awakens):

 

 

Sheet music: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18637418/marchoftheresistance.pdf

 

Hope you all like it!

 

Just saw this. Christ, I envy your skills man. To play octaves like that, at that tempo... I tried your Interstellar arrangement and found the right hand at bar 17 enough of a workout in itself. :P

 

My request for your next transcription.

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On 23/03/2016 at 2:07 AM, Sharky said:

Just saw this. Christ, I envy your skills man. To play octaves like that, at that tempo... I tried your Interstellar arrangement and found the right hand at bar 17 enough of a workout in itself. :P

 

My request for your next transcription.

 

Ah, plenty of sustained dissonance...this should be fun! I might give it a go when I have some more spare time. :) 

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Terrific mock-up! I think you captured the background textures perfectly. It's from "Science and Religion", right? I frickin' adore that track as well.

 

May I ask by the way what you used for the solo violin?

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10 hours ago, loert said:

Another TOD transcription; this time, Short Round's theme!

 

 

Usually I would have made MIDI-based audio out of this piece, but I decided to take the plunge and multi-track it live...this is my first time, so please be kind!!! :) I hope the transcription itself is satisfactory, in any case. 

 

Also, I would like to arrange one more TOD piece to round off with a trilogy (in addition to Mine Car Chase and Short Round's theme). There are two pieces of music which I think would work fairly well on the piano:

 

1) Bug Tunnel/Death Trap

2) Slave Children's Crusade + Short Round Helps

 

Which one should I do? :D

 

Awesome as usual!. Great stuff, another one of my favorites.  Four hands, with video was awesome to see, and hear. Thank you!!!

 

I especially like at around 1:19, I think there's a slight increase in tempo there right? or has that been something I've invented in my head?

 

I would have to choose both for your next TOD piece.:).   I don't think I could choose one, either would be fantastic!

Bug Tunnel would be more unique, but it's shorter.

Slave Children's Crusade would be longer, but has themes that appear in other work you've done. :)

Total 50/50. :)

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18 hours ago, russds said:

 

Awesome as usual!. Great stuff, another one of my favorites.  Four hands, with video was awesome to see, and hear. Thank you!!!

 

I especially like at around 1:19, I think there's a slight increase in tempo there right? or has that been something I've invented in my head?

 

I would have to choose both for your next TOD piece.:).   I don't think I could choose one, either would be fantastic!

Bug Tunnel would be more unique, but it's shorter.

Slave Children's Crusade would be longer, but has themes that appear in other work you've done. :)

Total 50/50. :)

 

Thanks for your comments! :) I'm glad you liked it!

 

Yes, there is a slight increase in tempo in the original, which I tried to recreate. Though in that particular take of me playing I think I rushed a little too much so the bit right afterwards sounds slowed down, although it shouldn't be like that. Oh well, next time I shall pay more attention to these things. :D

 

And yeah, it's a tough decision between the two. I love them both for different reasons! But I've thought about it yesterday myself and I think what I shall do is Slave Children's Crusade, because it's one of the mainstays of the soundtrack and it'd be difficult to justify not having it in somewhere (the little snippet in the middle of Short Round's Theme is not enough!). However, I will for sure do Bug Tunnel/Death Trap later down the line as well. :)   

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I'm currently attempting to create a mockup of the Revenge of the Sith cue 1M4A Get 'EM R-2!. What do you think, so far?

 

 

Libraries used:

 

Orchestral Tools: Berlin Woodwinds

Sample Modeling: Brass

Spitfire Audio: Percussion

Orchestral Tools: Symphonic Sphere (Harp)

Spitfire Audio: Sable Strings

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2 hours ago, Jilal said:

I'm currently attempting to create a mockup of the Revenge of the Sith cue 1M4A Get 'EM R-2!. What do you think, so far?

 

 

Libraries used:

 

Orchestral Tools: Berlin Woodwinds

Sample Modeling: Brass

Spitfire Audio: Percussion

Orchestral Tools: Symphonic Sphere (Harp)

Spitfire Audio: Sable Strings

 

Sounds very good but the strings are a bit too synthy.  You might want to overlap the notes a bit or maybe use a legato patch.  Is that passage using strings in octaves?  The mockup sounds high string heavy.

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23 minutes ago, loert said:

Would be hilarious if JW actually ended the cue like that. :lol:

 

We've got a kick-ass action cue developing here ... or what about NOT?! :P

 

I'm interested in your thoughts. 

 

Here's yet another revision:

 

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Horns at 0:05 are accented in the score, but your horns sort of swell in the middle. It shouldn't swell at all. It's a pre-echo of the next brass figures after all.

 

Trombones are perhaps a little too loud (or the low trumpets?) and you could maybe try bringing out the top trumpet more. Ideally there would be a diminuendo on each chord (i.e. more defined release)

 

The timpani roll at 0:15 could be tighter.

 

The horns at 0:19 really need to stand out, and secco! At 0:26 each note in the six-note phrase has to be really clear - we kind of lose the 4th note.

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I think it's sounding really good, Jilal.  Especially after putting in loert's feedback.  The strings are pretty tough to get realistic but it sounds better now.  Are you panning the unison strings?  Like Violin 1 at further left than violin 2.   Basically, to give it a broader stage presence without making it louder even though they are doubling each other or an octave apart, it doesn't have a great sense of space.  But I like it.  Is the brass library modeled rather than live?  It's pretty good other than relative balance.

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4 minutes ago, karelm said:

I think it's sounding really good, Jilal.  Especially after putting in loert's feedback.  The strings are pretty tough to get realistic but it sounds better now.  Are you panning the unison strings?  Like Violin 1 at further left than violin 2.   Basically, to give it a broader stage presence without making it louder even though they are doubling each other or an octave apart, it doesn't have a great sense of space.  But I like it.  Is the brass library modeled rather than live?  It's pretty good other than relative balance.

 

Yes, I am panning them, but since this is a chamber-size library (with the benefit of being more precise) it might be harder to discern the various sections - I'll try panning them a little wider (I'm using VSS2). The brass library is modeled indeed.

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2 minutes ago, Jilal said:

 

Yes, I am panning them, but since this is a chamber-size library (with the benefit of being more precise) it might be harder to discern the various sections - I'll try panning them a little wider (I'm using VSS2). The brass library is modeled indeed.

 

Oh, I see.  That explains it with the strings.  One thing you might want to try is loading up 3 first violin patches and play them just a little differently each time or just get the timings to not be 100% identical and pan them so they are spread across space rather than all on the same spot.

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A little bit more progress has been made. :)

 

I've managed to mock up another 45 seconds or so, and I've been meddling around with the mixing/mastering process which, in my own opinion, has enhanced the overall sound. I'm very sorry to bug you again, @karelm, but what do you think?

 

 

This is the previous version:

 

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Some comments*, @Gistech:

 

1) In terms of reverb, it lacks a bit of oomph. I'm very fine with the close miking, but your mix could use more reverb to make it sound more cinematic. It sounds like a dry 60's recording right now (which is more or less one of my preferred aesthetics, but by far not the best choice these days).

 

2) I'd use a spatialization plugin to separate the various sections a little bit more. You could either use that for convenience, or use a little more reverb going from strings to woodwinds, to brass, to percussion, etc.

 

3) An interesting comment I recently got from @loert: work on the phrasing. Musicians adjust their breath/bowing during notes, musical sentences, etc. This is perhaps one of the most important points when it comes to producing realistic mock-ups.

 

In terms of mastering, it sounds great, however. :)

 

* For what they're worth. :P

 

(As for the SoundCloud widget: in SoundCloud, click the Share button, go to the Embed tab, copy the code (it should begin with <iframe ...) and paste it here in Source mode (the top left button in the panel here). I prefer the smaller "Classic" widget.

 

[Pasting Gistech's mockup here again as we've advanced a page:]

 

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9 minutes ago, Jilal said:

Some comments*, @Gistech:

 

1) In terms of reverb, it lacks a bit of oomph. I'm very fine with the close miking, but your mix could use more reverb to make it sound more cinematic. It sounds like a dry 60's recording right now (which is more or less one of my preferred aesthetics, but by far not the best choice these days).

 

2) I'd use a spatialization plugin to separate the various sections a little bit more. You could either use that for convenience, or use a little more reverb going from strings to woodwinds, to brass, to percussion, etc.

 

3) An interesting comment I recently got from @loert: work on the phrasing. Musicians adjust their breath/bowing during notes, musical sentences, etc. This is perhaps one of the most important points when it comes to producing realistic mock-ups.

 

In terms of mastering, it sounds great, however. :)

 

* For what they're worth. :P

 

(As for the SoundCloud widget: in SoundCloud, click the Share button, go to the Embed tab, copy the code (it should begin with <iframe ...) and paste it here in Source mode (the top left button in the panel here). I prefer the smaller "Classic" widget.

 

[Pasting Gistech's mockup here again as we've advanced a page:]

 

 

I'll take those on board for Progress 4. I tend to leave reverb until last when I get all the notation in place. As for the phrasing, you're referring to the modulation/velocity, right? Should be easy enough to emulate with the modulation graph in FL Studio - just small changes to the graph wave ought to make it sound more natural.

 

I'm using EW Hollywood Orchestra for the instruments, which are superior to the Symphonic Orchestra instruments in many ways (as well as being more varied, they just plain sound nicer). I have ComposerCloud X which also grants me the close mike, which I've only used for the percussion in this instance. But those staccato patches could use a bit of reverb to make them sound more natural for sure. I might add that I've done this entirely by ear.

 

As for the Soundcloud Widget, unfortunately since updating Firefox it seems neither version of the widget works for me. I just get the standard SoundCloud logo in a grey box.

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The issue of bowing and breath with virtual instruments isn't something that can be satisfactorily emulated by drawing in MIDI controller curves. It absolutely should be happening in real time as you perform the parts. This is the only really viable way to achieve something akin to human touch and imperfection. Short of that, you'll always be wondering why it just doesn't sound right.  I understand that not everyone has keyboard skills that allow this, but: if you're willing to put in the absurd amount of time that I've experienced it takes to subtly change every note entrance and length, to add swells and phrasings to the dynamics, to a point where it's kind of acceptable, perhaps you're willing to put in the time, which won't have to be put in again, to sharpen up your keyboard skills?  I don't mean to detract from the quality of what you've done, but this is one of the biggest shortcomings of virtual instruments and also of virtual instrument users. It's almost always the root of what makes a mockup sound bad. I tried to get away with entering notes by step when I started doing this stuff and drawing in expression, thinking it would save time. It didn't, and it took someone telling me all of the above (in brusquer terms, I might add, but the quality of his work justifies it and then some) to put me back on the right path.  There are many things that sampled music can't be, but one of the things it can be, and it's a huge one, is an actual performance.

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That is a really good set of valid points.

 

For the record, I don't use a keyboard - I sequence in FL Studio entirely by hand as I don't have a connector for my old keyboard.

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Incidentally, I offer here some audio evidence of the virtues of live sample performance, recently done and shared with me by the same fellow mentioned above who guided me back into the sample world after I had been largely absent from it since the 90s. Quite a bit had changed....

Think he's shared these on another forum, and doesn't lurk on JWFan anymore, so there shouldn't be any harm in me discreetly putting them here. I can offer zero information about libraries/gear/methods used, though. ;)

http://picosong.com/z49T/

http://picosong.com/z49W/

 

That incomplete last minute in the second one pisses me off.

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I understand that not everyone has keyboard skills that allow this, but: if you're willing to put in the absurd amount of time that I've experienced it takes to subtly change every note entrance and length, to add swells and phrasings to the dynamics, to a point where it's kind of acceptable, perhaps you're willing to put in the time, which won't have to be put in again, to sharpen up your keyboard skills?

 

But what about those of us who've never had a piano lesson in their life? I know it sounds like I'm reaching for excuses to justify shoddy technique, but to receive formal training would be a serious undertaking, not to mention costly.

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6 hours ago, Jilal said:

A little bit more progress has been made. :)

 

I've managed to mock up another 45 seconds or so, and I've been meddling around with the mixing/mastering process which, in my own opinion, has enhanced the overall sound. I'm very sorry to bug you again, @karelm, but what do you think?

 

 

This is the previous version:

 

First of all, it is not a bother at all!  It is my honor to figure this all out with you and think this is highly polished.  I think you have impressive drive and serious talent.  With that said, question for you.  Are you using multiple reverbs depending on the group and to play around with the 3D space?  You might want to look into a plug in called Virtualsoundstage 2.0.  This lets you place tracks in a 3D space within a virtual stage.  Worth investigating.  You can address this without a tool through EQ, prelay, panning, busing to several reverb channels, etc., but it makes the task easier.  I would suggest the brass have more reverb tail and a bit less high frequency to push them further on the stage.  The percussion and strings are fine regarding this.  This feedback is in trying to make it sound as similar as possible to a live recording or the OST.  Generally, I still think the strings have a chamber quality than the OST but that is nitpicky and something beyond your control if you have chamber string library (and a very fine one at that).  Extend the length of the notes slightly on very fast passages.  Examples where this becomes very evident is that run starting at 0:11 through 0:14, around 0:24, and the fast strings at 1:04, the winds at 1:11.  Think of slightly extending the note duration of those very fast passages I mentioned because they would be played more as a slight smear.  Some of the fast trumpet passages should be better phrased such as at 0:38 and 0:44 before the long notes.  I consider this an impressive mockup, so do understand I'm nitpicking and your work demonstrates a high quality. 

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1 hour ago, karelm said:

First of all, it is not a bother at all!  It is my honor to figure this all out with you and think this is highly polished.  I think you have impressive drive and serious talent.  With that said, question for you.  Are you using multiple reverbs depending on the group and to play around with the 3D space?  You might want to look into a plug in called Virtualsoundstage 2.0.  This lets you place tracks in a 3D space within a virtual stage.  Worth investigating.  You can address this without a tool through EQ, prelay, panning, busing to several reverb channels, etc., but it makes the task easier.  I would suggest the brass have more reverb tail and a bit less high frequency to push them further on the stage.  The percussion and strings are fine regarding this.  This feedback is in trying to make it sound as similar as possible to a live recording or the OST.  Generally, I still think the strings have a chamber quality than the OST but that is nitpicky and something beyond your control if you have chamber string library (and a very fine one at that).  Extend the length of the notes slightly on very fast passages.  Examples where this becomes very evident is that run starting at 0:11 through 0:14, around 0:24, and the fast strings at 1:04, the winds at 1:11.  Think of slightly extending the note duration of those very fast passages I mentioned because they would be played more as a slight smear.  Some of the fast trumpet passages should be better phrased such as at 0:38 and 0:44 before the long notes.  I consider this an impressive mockup, so do understand I'm nitpicking and your work demonstrates a high quality. 

 

Yep, I'm using both multiple reverbs and the Virtual SoundStage 2.0 plugin. I chose for the brass section to be a little bit more close miked than usual to slightly mimic Shawn Murphy's Revenge of the Sith recording (so in fact, I was indeed trying to make it sound as similar as possible to the OST), but I agree it would probably sound better with the brass pushed farther back. As for the strings, I own a couple other libraries as well (Cinesamples' CineStrings, Native Instruments/Audiobro's Symphony Series strings, LA Scoring Strings, etc.) but opted for this one as I really love its sound (there's a great Imperial March mockup on YouTube by a certain Alex Gobbet that makes use of it as well). As for the string runs ... I did extend the length of the notes, but the end result remained fairly similar. :( I guess this really is one of the weak points of sample libraries in general. Contrary to the woodwinds, however, which turned out quite fine. Concerning the trumpet phrases you mention: I attempted to ameliorate the phrasing, but it's really the overall sound of the sample library that's a little unrealistic here.

 

(Oh, and thanks for the feedback. It's my honor to be guided by a professional. :))

 

By the way, perhaps one of the most important points --- I used iZotope's Ozone plugin to master the mockup (using various presets, including the Vintage Warmth one, and this really, really adds to the realism. 

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I'm pretty sure if you just past a soundcloud URL here,  the board will automatically turn it into an embed when you press enter. 

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On 8/26/2016 at 7:21 PM, Sharkus Malarkus said:

 

But what about those of us who've never had a piano lesson in their life? I know it sounds like I'm reaching for excuses to justify shoddy technique, but to receive formal training would be a serious undertaking, not to mention costly.

 

Don't think it sounds like an excuse at all.  It's a legitimate pickle to be in.  Where impractical to develop keyboard technique, maybe there just has to be even more care put into the various edits that aid in humanization after the notes are entered one at a time into the sequencer.  I'm not sure what better approach there might be.   One thing to look into would be a breath controller.  You could enter the notes by hand, tweak their lengths one way or another, and then actually record expression in real time using a breath controller on top of the line you've entered in.  So the notes themselves aren't being performed, but at least the expression and dynamics are.  You could do that with a modwheel also or any other MIDI controller, I don't know why I jumped to breath controllers (they're really cool).

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5 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

One thing to look into would be a breath controller.  You could enter the notes by hand, tweak their lengths one way or another, and then actually record expression in real time using a breath controller on top of the line you've entered in.  So the notes themselves aren't being performed, but at least the expression and dynamics are.  You could do that with a modwheel also or any other MIDI controller, I don't know why I jumped to breath controllers (they're really cool).

 

That sounds ideal, and it's probably more musical than a standard modwheel. Though as a former cellist I wait for the release of this baby.

 

 

https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/k-bow/

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On 8/27/2016 at 9:24 PM, Sharkus Malarkus said:

 

That sounds ideal, and it's probably more musical than a standard modwheel. Though as a former cellist I wait for the release of this baby.

 

 

https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/k-bow/

Wow...  he's got some crazy (brilliant) ideas on his site.

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Thought it would be fun to mock up the tinkly percussion bit (from 2:58) from the "Map Room" track in Raiders. Though unfortunately I don't have a cimbalon VST. :(

 

Here are three versions:

 

Percussion + High Strings:

Percussion only:

Percussion, no triangle:

 

All played in manually of course...you can sort of tell, right? :sarcasm:

 

EDIT: OK, I've actually found time to do another one: the first 5 bars of Journey to the Island.

 

Here's the full mockup:

 

Now with no swirling background (pretty hard to tell the difference really, at least in this case):

 

Now with no trumpet :devil::

 

And finally, with EPICTM choir added (because why the fahq not):

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4 hours ago, loert said:

Thought it would be fun to mock up the tinkly percussion bit (from 2:58) from the "Map Room" track in Raiders. Though unfortunately I don't have a cimbalon VST. :(

 

Here are three versions:

 

Percussion + High Strings:

Percussion only:

Percussion, no triangle:

 

All played in manually of course...you can sort of tell, right? :sarcasm:

 

EDIT: OK, I've actually found time to do another one: the first 5 bars of Journey to the Island.

 

Here's the full mockup:

 

Now with no swirling background (pretty hard to tell the difference really, at least in this case):

 

Now with no trumpet :devil::

 

And finally, with EPICTM choir added (because why the fahq not):

 

Sounds great.  By the way, what libraries?  If you don't mind a nitpick, because I have been keeping an eye/ear on the Berlin Brass and watched their library walkthrough on youtube, you might want to consider for the Journey to the Island to mix in a few more legatos in the trumpet line.  Your mockup is really good but having a few of those notes legato would add a dimension.  Watch the phrasing section of this video to better understand what I mean about slurred legato and retongued legato in a brass phrase (you have to watch a few minutes because they start off with a basic legato and then start changing the legatos at certain points):

 

Though this library isn't for everyone's budget, they make a valid point that there are different types of legato so you might want to "mimic" the effect if you can't afford this library.

 

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