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What's your opinion on "Images"?

Rate the score to "Images"!  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. Rate the score to "Images"!

    • 5 stars
    • 4,5 stars
    • 4 stars
    • 3,5 stars
    • 3 stars
    • 2,5 stars
      0
    • 2 stars
    • 1,5 stars
      0
    • 1 star
      0
    • I don't know (own) this score.


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28 minutes ago, Richard said:

Thor, baby, it did continue, with THE LONG GOODBYE...but I know what you mean.

 

True. I obviously meant after that.

 

28 minutes ago, Richard said:

Did you know that JW was scheduled to score QUINTET?

 

I did not. Where's this info?

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There aren't any tapes for the music of "Images". It only exists on vinyl made for the Academy Awards members for inclusion in the "Best Music, Original Dramatic Score" category for the 1973 Oscars (and it was nominated). Meaning: it's a FYC album. :)

 

Another funny thing is that this FYC vinyl contains music not used in the film. I believe the Academy changed the rules about that (don't know when), and FYC albuns that feature music not heard in the film are not allowed anymore.

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On 28.12.2017 at 11:22 PM, phbart said:

There aren't any tapes for the music of "Images". It only exists on vinyl made for the Academy Awards members for inclusion in the "Best Music, Original Dramatic Score" category for the 1973 Oscars (and it was nominated). Meaning: it's a FYC album. :)

 

Another funny thing is that this FYC vinyl contains music not used in the film. I believe the Academy changed the rules about that (don't know when), and FYC albuns that feature music not heard in the film are not allowed anymore.

It does make sense, but it doesn't at the same time. It's an award for best score and not for best music used in film. This way Alien and The Lost World have never had a chance to get nominated.

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7 hours ago, Corellian2019 said:

Out of curiosity, how does the Images score compare to the most dissonant passages in Close Encounters, "Barry's Kidnapping" in particular?

 

Rather different. "Barry's Kidnapping" is more in the style of Ligeti's "Lux Aeterna" (the choral, dissonant bit from 2001), while the dissonant bits of IMAGES are more experimental and avantgarde; the percussive and string sounds are more similar to Arne Nordheim or Karl-Heinz Stockhausen. Of course, IMAGES also has the tonal bits, the elegant, fairytale waltz ("Blood Moon" etc.). The two parts of IMAGES mirror the protagonist's schizophrenic mental state (the tonal bits are for Cathryn's self-constructed fairytale world, while the dissonant parts are reality and real-life memories "intruding" on her existence).

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On December 31, 2017 at 6:19 AM, Thor said:

 

Rather different. "Barry's Kidnapping" is more in the style of Ligeti's "Lux Aeterna" (the choral, dissonant bit from 2001), while the dissonant bits of IMAGES are more experimental and avantgarde; the percussive and string sounds are more similar to Arne Nordheim or Karl-Heinz Stockhausen. Of course, IMAGES also has the tonal bits, the elegant, fairytale waltz ("Blood Moon" etc.). The two parts of IMAGES mirror the protagonist's schizophrenic mental state (the tonal bits are for Cathryn's self-constructed fairytale world, while the dissonant parts are reality and real-life memories "intruding" on her existence).

 

Mm, more like chorus reminiscent of Ligeti, and strings reminiscent of Penderecki in "Barry's Kidnapping" :)

 

Anyway, I listened to some tracks from Images this morning, and there's some very cool work by Yamash'ta between the notes, but "Reflections" really knocked my socks off and put me in a trance (which is ironic, considering that it wasn't used by Altman). I don't think I have the stomach for listening to the whole score now, but I'm definitely going to check out the film. Don't know if I should rent the DVD now, or wait for the Blu-ray in March...

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On 12/29/2017 at 6:22 AM, phbart said:

There aren't any tapes for the music of "Images". It only exists on vinyl made for the Academy Awards members

 

what is your source for this?

I hope they found them in the meantime; i was just listening to some cues yesterday that I think are not in the ost.

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What do you mean, filmmusic? The only release available at the moment is the Prometheus album that was culled directly from the Academy Award promo LP back in the day.

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3 hours ago, filmmusic said:

what is your source for this?

I hope they found them in the meantime; i was just listening to some cues yesterday that I think are not in the ost

 

There's no bootleg as far as I know

I guess there could be a DVD rip floating around

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I'm still unsure what you mean. Could you clarify?

 

There might some audio rips floating around, I don't know. But the only album available is the Prometheus album/Academy Award promo.

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The question is whether the original recorded audio elements still exist somewhere, or are they destroyed/overwritten (like Dracula supposedly, or Jane Eyre) and the album masters or the vinyl is the only remnant left. In other words: is an expansion possible?

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15 minutes ago, Holko said:

The question is whether the original recorded audio elements still exist somewhere, or are they destroyed/overwritten (like Dracula supposedly, or Jane Eyre) and the album masters or the vinyl is the only remnant left. In other words: is an expansion possible?

 

I think the Prometheus was mastered directly from the vinyl promo, because master tapes were missing (both film and album - if one can call it that -  tracks).

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14 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

I think the Prometheus was mastered directly from the vinyl promo, because master tapes were missing (both film and album - if one can call it that -  tracks).

 

Yes, that’s what we’ve been saying.

 

I have no idea about any existing master tapes.

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I don't know what filmmusic was asking, to be honest. It was all very confusing.

 

I'm sure that Prometheus investigated if there were any master tapes available before they issued the promo album.

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On 12/28/2017 at 11:22 PM, phbart said:

There aren't any tapes for the music of "Images". It only exists on vinyl made for the Academy Awards members

 

8 hours ago, filmmusic said:

what is your source for this?

I hope they found them in the meantime; i was just listening to some cues yesterday that I think are not in the ost.

 

7 hours ago, Thor said:

What do you mean, filmmusic? The only release available at the moment is the Prometheus album that was culled directly from the Academy Award promo LP back in the day.

 

3 hours ago, filmmusic said:

I was listening to them in the film.

 

2 hours ago, Thor said:

I'm still unsure what you mean. Could you clarify?

 

There might some audio rips floating around, I don't know. But the only album available is the Prometheus album/Academy Award promo.

 

How are you confused?

 

filmmusic watched the film.  Heard music that is not on the academy promo / Prometheus CD, and expressed his wishes that the original recording session elements still exist in a vault somewhere, so that an expanded release could happen one day.  Simple.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

 

 

filmmusic watched the film.  Heard music that is not on the academy promo / Prometheus CD, and expressed his wishes that the original recording session elements still exist in a vault somewhere, so that an expanded release could happen one day.  Simple.

Yes, exactly! thanks! 😉

So, was it confirmed by someone that the master tapes have been lost?

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I seem to remember reading something about that years ago, yes, but I can't remember where. The liner notes of the Prometheus release do not mention anything about master tapes, but I'm guessing they investigated this first before they issued the promo. It's perhaps worth sending them a mail to inquire if you're curious.

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Booklet 05.jpg

Back Cover.jpg

 

 

I don't know if the film has music that it's not on the album, but the album has music that it's not on the film.

 

Regarding the existence of tapes, I strongly believe it's the same thing that happened to Jerry Goldsmith's "Islands in the Stream". That film was not a sucess, so no soundtrack album was ever released, even though an attempt was made three years later, in 1979, by Varèse. But "Islands" had a different fate than "Images", thanks to Bruce Kimmel. He explains it nicely here:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/6405/Tapes-in-a-Bottle--Islands-in-the-Stream/

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The question is if Prometheus ever made an effort to find the master tapes, before deciding to go with the existing vinyl. Curiously, the liner notes do not mention such an attempt.

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There was a bootleg in the early 2000's floating around, for which I had a crappy 160kbps mp3 copy of it, and it was obviously sourced from a vinyl, but nowhere near as clean as the Prometheus release. I think that if it's the case of a master tape existing and, even better, being found, something would have happened by now, as the rights were renewed in 2012 by BSX but it sounds exactly the same as the 2007 Prometheus release. No CD of this 2012 version was released, only digital.

 

 

 

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Yeah, I had that same bootleg, basically the Prometheus in worse sound. You're right, JS, that Prometheus does seem to be a bit "lazy" (if you could call it that) when it comes to investigating better sources when they do CDs. Like the whole RAIN MAN ordeal. But I'd still like to know if they looked into it at the time.

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36 minutes ago, phbart said:

There was a bootleg in the early 2000's floating around, for which I had a crappy 160kbps mp3 copy of it, and it was obviously sourced from a vinyl, but nowhere near as clean as the Prometheus release. I think that if it's the case of a master tape existing and, even better, being found, something would have happened by now, as the rights were renewed in 2012 by BSX but it sounds exactly the same as the 2007 Prometheus release. No CD of this 2012 version was released, only digital.

 

I had the impression that BSX doesn't care about securing the rights when releasing old soundtracks digitally, but I might be wrong.

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I cannot recall ever reading any statement from any label head or other soundtrack producer about Images and if anyone's ever looked for the recording session elements or not.

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All I can say for my part, is that the album was digitally reissued in 2012.

 

PS : I just read, that @phbart said that the digital release have the same sound than the 2007 CD.

 

NOTE : Hemdale Music seems a legit label for special products, I think it was owned by Beechwood/Capitol, so I don't think the first release was a bootleg.

 

p_jw12.jpg

 

Images [The Original Sound Track Recording] (1972, Hemdale Music, JW 1/2, Promo)

In Search Of Unicorns; The House; Dogs, Ponies & Old Ruins; Visitations; Reflections; The Killing Of Marcel; The Love Montage; Blood Moon; Land Of The Ums; Nightwatch Rise; The Waterfall And The Final Chapter.

 

p_pcd163.jpg

 

(Reissued in 2007, Prometheus/Belgium, PCD163)

 

p_images2012.jpg

 

(Reissued for digital download in 2012, BSX Records)

 

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But anyways, the sound from the Prometheus release is superb to me. The advantage of finding a master tape could be the inclusion of unreleased material. I myself only learned the Prometheus release was sourced from a vinyl until many years later, when I finally had access to the booklet. And I was like "wat???". Then I putted my headphones and really cranked the volume, and only then I noticed vinyl-like characteristics in the sound. It's either a very well preserved vinyl, or a very well made transfer to digital or a very well made restoration. Maybe all.

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12 minutes ago, Bespin said:

NOTE : Hemdale Music seems a legit label for special products, I think it was owned by Beechwood/Capitol, so I don't think the first release was a bootleg.

 

No, a promo is not a bootleg, strictly speaking. But when you have a CD-R copy of the original promo (like I did), it probably qualifies.

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20 hours ago, Jay said:

It's ridiculous that some board members like and dislike different scores than you do?

If anyone else said that you would not have responded. Only positivr reponses are allowed. Group thought!

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I didn't  say I didn't  like it. But the folks here do tend to give 5 stars for things undeserving. It does not compare to the real five star scores. 

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Saw the film on Sunday and loved the score. In comparison to the album, there are some missing cues, notably a harpsichord cue featuring the main theme, but the majority seems to be more percussion music by Yamash'ta. And some of the album tracks are different from their film versions.

 

Any hope that JW enlists Mike Matessino to find the original elements for this score? :)

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