Very interesting AOTC article in MIX Magazine

[TownerFan 4,983]

Here it is:

http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_star_wars_ep...ode_2/index.htm

I read it and I found it very interesting and deeply informative, although specifically techical for the most part (i.e.: you have to be a sound technician to undertand a lot of things!)

They talk also about music and there are some interesting infos. Here's some bits:

(...) Having said this, Burtt does note that much of the Zam speeders, in the reel 1 chase in nighttime Coruscant, were made from musical instruments, including electric guitars, cellos and violas. The infamous electric razor was also brought into play to vibrate viola, harp and bass strings. "I was thinking that it was traveling magnetically, it was being pulled along the streets with changing magnetic fields rather than by self-propulsion."

Because Burtt was in the "danger zone" of making tonal sound effects for the speeders, he had to be careful of the interplay with John Williams’ music. "I originally did a temp version of that mix, using nothing but musical sounds for the speeders. My thought was that the music score would be percussion-based, along with tones for the ships. I temped it that way, but John Williams didn’t quite do that, and his heavy orchestral piece necessitated rethinking the tonal aspects of the vehicles. In some cases, the musical tones that I made conflicted with the orchestra. Which was a disappointment for me, because I wasn’t able to push it into a new area. My reasoning was that we’ve done an awful lot of high-energy chase scenes, and I wanted this to be offbeat and strange. But it didn’t really happen."

The final mix of Episode II started on March 4, at which point Rydstrom and Semanick were joined at the Neve DFC by veteran L.A.-based re-recording mixer Rick Kline, who would be handling the music. This schedule was in contrast to so many movies these days, where final mixing and premixing overlap, and multiple stages are working simultaneously at the last minute. "They schedule enough time so we don’t have to do that," says Semanick. "George locked the picture early enough so that we’re not beating our heads against the wall trying to finish it up at the last second, which I think is pretty smart if you can plan it."  

(...)

Lucas would then have Kline solo the music and would pick through it, commenting on transitions and places to drop or change cues. Effects did not, as a rule, undergo this "solo microscope," presumably because Lucas had heard effects throughout the picture editorial and temp dub process.

Excepting one playback of the first four reels, the first screening that Lucas and the crew had of the whole movie was only days before the end of the final mix on Saturday, April 13. This and another screening that week for friends produced 12 pages of notes from Lucas that were addressed over the last days of the mix.

Many of these notes revolved around dialog intelligibility issues. Lucas had asked those attending the second screening to let him know if any dialog wasn’t clear. Semanick, being the dialog mixer, remembers with glee Lucas’ mantra during the final mix: "Everything is subservient to dialog."

Music was recorded by Shawn Murphy at Abbey Road Studio One in London, the site of the Episode I recordings three years earlier. With 14 sessions from January 18-26, Murphy recorded to two 2-inch Dolby SR-encoded 24-tracks. The mix was done simultaneously to Pro Tools via a 2-inch 16-track, including a 5.1 main orchestra and 3-track (LCR) groups of synth, percussion and choir. Kline says that the music was "wall-to-wall-to-wall," absent for only a few minutes and playing "full tilt" for most of the time.

As to the challenge of weaving all of this music around dialog and effects for 142 minutes, Kline says that his work was made easy not only because of the composing of John Williams, the masterful editing of his longtime associate Ken Wannberg, and the excellent recording by Shawn Murphy, but also because of Rydstrom’s deft handling of sound effects. "Gary is such an incredible mixer. He has a real sense of the music and is very tuned-in. He’s forever creating space to allow textures of the music to come through. It was such a treat to work with his and Michael’s talents. I think it came out to be a very good blend [of dialog, music and sound effects]."

Williams had composed the film to the edit as of last December, and as a result extensive editing was required to conform the tracks for the final mix. The smallest number of fade files in Wannberg’s Pro Tools sessions for a reel was 7,000; most reels had from 12,000 to 14,000. Kline remembers assistant music editor Steve Galloway asking him for some heads-up to reel changes, since sessions sometimes took 20 minutes to open!

Rydstrom says that Episode II was organized so well in post-production that, by the time they got into final mixing in March, most reels were "almost 100 percent complete and never changed." The one exception was reel 6, which was 1,812 feet and 6 frames full of some of the most intense and busy action sequences ever put on the screen. Reel 6 is traditionally the big action reel in the Star Wars series, but Rydstrom says that this one was so big "it was as if you had taken the previous four Star Wars movies and projected them on top of each other. I would be crawling through the film frame-by-frame and asking, ‘Which laser did you mean this one for, Terry, the 15th on the left of this frame?’"

Todd Busch remembers that reel 6 didn’t exist in anything resembling its current form before last July. "The original script was vague about what occurs outside the arena. In May and June [2001], George put the art department to work, and in July the Clone War got fleshed out with animatics."

Although the monster fight in the arena was originally scored, music was dropped at the final, which meant Burtt had to rethink a three-minute sequence because they had premixed it "in context," against the music. "Music had been end-to-end in the reel, but we thought that it wore the audience out too quickly," says Burtt. "So we dropped a couple of cues, which in the end was better dramatically, although I had to come up with a whole different approach to the cutting. Rather than a supporting role, it was the only thing happening. It was quite satisfying because it was a fun challenge to see how quickly I could come up with a couple of new concepts

So... it sounds (excuse the pun) like Ben Burtt and John Williams look and hear at the movie in a pretty different way...

Let's start the comments!

Maurizio

--

[stewdog1 50]

Seems to me Burtt wasn't too pleased with the Chase music. Why didn't he convey this to JW? Still curious as to how the entire final battle music was handled. They answered it, but they didn't at the same time.

I want somebody to explain why TPM music was used. Are they afraid? Of us?

[Guest]

If I make it to Hollywood and find a John Williams to my Steven Spielberg, then you can bet I'll be as nice to the music as Steve is. It's easy to make a good movie, but it's not easy to have a great score to all of them. There's several great movies that needed better scores.

I could see how the Arena music wouldn't have fit the animals' attack. I tried playing it in my mind while I watched the movie last week (also quietly humming) and it just didn't fit. But I can't think that the "Rancor Pit" couldn't have done a sufficient job of covering for it. As for dramatic effect? Please...

I hope George puts Ben back on sound-only and borrows Michael Kahn from Spielberg for Ep III. That'll probably never happen, but it would make for a better score in cinema.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Kline says that the music was "wall-to-wall-to-wall," absent for only a few minutes and playing "full tilt" for most of the time.  

If this statement is true it must mean that Williams score more then 125 minutes of music for AOTC.

Stefancos- who wants ever last note of it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

Shawn' Murphy's excellent recording? That excellent recording has the most amount of hiss I've heard on a CD in a long time.

Perhaps the arena/battle sequence wouldn't have worn out the audience if they had thought of some plot for it. As it stands, I found it horribly boring. No wonder Williams wrote wall-to-wall music for it, at least there would have been SOMETHING going on.

And if they had scheduled the movie so perfectly in order to have plenty of time for everything, why did Williams have to write music for a cut that was completely changed afterwards?

Marian - who also wants more music.

[Dole 17]

I completely agree about the Arena sequence being boring due to lack of plot. I think it would have been much better if Amidala would have been tied up away from the others to be executed first at the request of Gunray. Then the reek could have gone after her while Anakin went postal at the other end of the Arena. Then Anakin could have broken free and gone to help her and then Dooku could have released the other two creatures or something like that. As it was in the movie, Amidala was loose before they'd even finished tying Anakin up! Very boring. Two things still make me wonder if Williams did compose music for the battle scenes: 1. There are NO battle cues on the CD at all which is strange. 2. Unlike the editing done in TPM to the Naboo Battle, the Battle in AOTC is tracked completely with music from TPM. Not any "new" music which makes me believe that either Williams composed nothing for these scenes or that the version Williams saw and the one that ended up in theaters was so completely different that no AOTC battle music could be used (similar to what happened with the conveyor belt sequence). I also found it funny that in the article Lucas said "everything depends on the dialouge". Personally, I would have liked the sound effects and music to drown out the dialouge in the love story scenes. Anakin starts to go on about sand and suddenly the love theme swells rendering him inaudible.

[Morn 8]

I found the arena very funny and a lot of fun. I just think the film didn't come together.

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

Unlike the editing done in TPM to the Naboo Battle, the Battle in AOTC is tracked completely with music from TPM. Not any "new" music

Well, AOTC's action tracks are a lot less thematic than those of TPM. Perhaps they didn't know how to edit unthematic action music.

Marian - wondering.

[ocelot 508]

Finally people are seeing the film for what it really was.. a mishmash

[John Takis 206]

Although the monster fight in the arena was originally scored, music was dropped at the final, which meant Burtt had to rethink a three-minute sequence because they had premixed it "in context," against the music. "Music had been end-to-end in the reel, but we thought that it wore the audience out too quickly," says Burtt. "So we dropped a couple of cues, which in the end was better dramatically, although I had to come up with a whole different approach to the cutting. Rather than a supporting role, it was the only thing happening. It was quite satisfying because it was a fun challenge to see how quickly I could come up with a couple of new concepts

NOTE: I'm pretty sure Burtt is talking specifically about the initial monster fight BEFORE the Clone Landing and ensuing Clones vs. Droids battle. He's talking about the few minutes where the big "arena march" Williams composed (and which can be heard on the album) are replaced by what sounds like ambient percussion effects ... no doubt Burtt's "whole new approach." This does NOT explain the massive looping and edits from TPM that followed.

[Morn 8]

Seems to me Burtt wasn't too pleased with the Chase music. Why didn't he convey this to JW?

Maybe he didn't want to disturb a genius at work

[Trumpeteer 302]

This answers some small questions, but not the big ones.

I'm thinking they scored the droid battles with TPM music because no part of it was finished to present to John in time to score it. I'm betting they didn't even give him an idea.

If you notice on the CD and in the film, original music doesn't pick up until well after the bulk of the main battle. I'm thinking George didn't give John an idea of film length needed for music, or had originally decided to not have music in the batle (yeah, right).

Thanks for the article anyway, Maurizio.

[Wickenstein 0]

Ben Burtt was disapointed with the Coruscant Chase music huh? Why am I not surprised? :roll:

(Sorry, I partially blame Burtt for the shoddy treatment of the score)

I still believe JW scored the battle. They probably had an animatic at least by that time for him to look at.

[Harry Potter 0]

I still don't understand why the battles weren't scored at a later date when they were completed. Was there no time? No chance to do it? I don't get it.

~Harry

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Like John Takis said. We have that music intended for the initial arena battles with the Reek and other monsters. And it would have been very, very nice if used. But it wasn't. The action would have been far more exciting if the music was used where intended.

And where that track slowly fades out and ends on a whimper, I'd bet that we have a rather large amount of missing music that Williams composed and recorded. I simply don't see Williams NOT composing music for those scenes only to have the Lucas crew place a mix and match mess of TPM cues that sounded like a small child edited them together. UNLESS those scenes didn't exist when he recorded them. But they likely did... just in a different order.

This is why Star Wars films are losing the support of so many that loved the original trilogy. They care more about CG and sound effects than the fluidity of the music. This is what seperates Speilberg's films from Star Wars films. Speilberg's movies are improved by Williams' music, while the last two Star Wars films could have been better, but were SELF-SACRIFICED for a couple of lousy extra battle droids and sound effects.

Lucas creates wonderful stories (I've loved every one so far) and then mishandles and ruins them with these simple yet asinine mistakes. Will they learn by Epidode 3?

I hope so, but I doubt it.

And the great saga may never be the same.

[Morn 8]

UNLESS those scenes didn't exist when he recorded them. But they likely did... just in a different order.

I think they probably only existed in as a ruff kinda draft CGI or as story boards.

But hmm, this is kind of ironic, Burtt and Williams both complain about each other getting in the way

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But a rough CGI version would have been sufficient for Williams to score music for those scenes, he's scored for "mock-ups" many times before.

Stefancos- curious about a Williams vs Burt Grudgematch.

[Dole 17]

Perhaps Williams will rescore (or score for the first time) the battle sequences in AOTC and in TPM when he does Episode III or perhaps even Harry Potter since it's being done with the LSO. I just can't imagine Williams taking the time to rescore parts of the original trilogy (as he alluded to in an interview earlier this year) while leaving the massive edits (which he has said he hates) in TMP and also in AOTC. Perhaps just wishful thinking but I have my fingers crossed.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Why does it seem like every Star Wars film gets worse with the music editing?

Well, almost...

Best to worst music editing IN the film:

1. Return Of The Jedi: Besides some concert versions of previously existing music, they edited this one the best.2. Star Wars: Pretty good overall, except they left out that great Dianoga cue. Really nothing to complain about though.
3. Empire Strikes Back: Left out some pretty darn good music which as ALWAYS bugged me. Then they tracked music where they didn't need to (the music meant for the scene would have worked just as well OR better).
4. The Phantom Menace: Outside of some loops and edits, the Pod Race and Naboo Battles were complete messes. Such a shame.
5. Attack Of The Clones: Damn. Some of the musical edits in this one, especially for the Arena battle, leave me wondering why they even employ Williams anymore? Why not just reuse all the music he's already done? Sheesh. A travesty to his talents.
I just hope that Episode 3 doesn't become #6. I'd be happy if it even got in the top 3.