igor

Merkel, is that Guybrush Threepwood. Wow, that brings back old memories to me!!! Igor

If the series goes on getting darker and darker (and darker) and the lighting dimmer and dimmer, I'm afraid Film #7 will have to be a radio broadcast. :roll:

Actually no. I'm just half-Lebanese, half-Brazilian, I'm studying in Paris right now, and I hope I can get a scholarship or an assistantship to be able to go to MSU next year, i hope, or the year after that. And the more I think of it, the more itmakes sense to me that I must go. Igor

Madadayo, yeah that was good!!

Played it a year and a half ago. I could play it better now though.

Who are you studying with? Yeah his Creston is my favorite, I've heard quite alot of versions of that Sonata. I've recently got that for myself.

Wow, you guys made me remember all those hours I spent on Kurosawa films. Ran is a particularly dry film(which is good I think). It also reminded me of another film of his, actually one of his last, DREAMS. I don't know if it is my favorite or not by him, but it does have a special place in my heart. For some reason, everytime I have watched this film I am so touched by the end that I can't homd back from crying. Amazing, considering how restrained the movie is, from acting, to dialogue, to camera movement itself. I remember scenes where the cameera stands still for minutes as the action occurs. Impressive! Igor

Aha, we have a classical saxophonist among us. Rousseau you said, QuestionMark Man, unless there is another guy who goes by the same name. I'm actually a saxophonist studying in Paris with Jean-Yves Fourmeau, and I'm trying of finding a way to come over to the States next year. I'm thinking of going to Michigan State University with Joe Lulloff, great teacher it seems. Igor

Look, 'academic' writing can be showy, but just don't bash the article on that basis. Igor

Do we need another one of those threads? Don't you get tired of them? I won't even bother answering the question.

One more idea for those who read the article. When music walks hand in hand with the images, it does not necessarily mean that it is only emplyoing the standard cliches to punctuate what is happening at the same time. Smartly composed music can be quite ambigous itself due to its nature, escaping all encompassing descriptions, and when such good music accompanies the images, it adds another layer which resides in the realm of ideas rather than simply providing exclamation marks, to use the author's words. I am thinking on the lines of Gabriel Yared, Jerry Goldsmith, some of JNH's work, John Williams... I'm sure there are more, but these constitute a good example by themselves. I mean this is one of the reasons Star Wars is more interesting!! The downsides to this approach(according to the author) are the following: The director has less control over this process. Quoting the article, ''The audiovisual incongruity for which we should aim expresses not the psychology of a character but the attitude of the director and composer'' and then, ''Inevitably, the tension or difference between the audience’s interpretation and the director’s intentionality will express and run parallel to the tension between the incongruous audio and visual elements of the film.'' Should the director be absolute God? If the director has so much control, will the composer become a puppet, a vehicle to the ''temp-track'' provided by the director's ideas? Is the director musically competent? Do his ideas make sense in a practical way? How will he involve the composer? How much freedom will the composer have? This is not a counter argument, just a matter of concern, since I think there is a delicate balancing act involving the composer's will, that of the director, and that of the film. There is no question, in narrative scoring, when the composer is tied down to the will of those above him, the results are mostly mediocre. But in the author's defense, part of the excitement is the experiment that results from the incongruities of the counterpoint method he proposes, there is an element of RISK, and it is worth embracing. One more thing, George Lucas asking a different composer to write sad music for a scene will probably lead to banal results, sad is too vague... Another downside is a certain friction between the music and the images and the sound: Happens all the time, there are compromises to be made, and in addition to that, the composer rarely has the finished cut at his disposal, so that person might miss certain nuances. Another downside, following the previous point, is the music totally veering from the film. Another one is redundancy, the ''marching march'' or the ''joyful joy''. I think one can argue for hours whether it can work sometimes or not. In general, I think the greatest downside is that the nature of cinema is exposed. In its nature, it is not a unified art, it depends on so many different elements to come to life (unless it is simplified to the extreme by stripping it of all except ''pure images'') and the slapping of music is sometimes an extra burden. But that is what cinema is, and the result has been the production of great films. In other words, I refer to my previous post. We can easily tolerate both congrous and incongrous counterpoint as long as it leads somewhere. Well, that's enough from me. Igor

Ted, I don't agree he's going nowhere, he is making a point. In general, I don't think his assumptions don't hold ground, it also depends on how they are put to practice. I mean following his method just to make a splash or just to be noticed, it will be simple kitsch in bad taste. But that is another problem, his method may become too obscure or too chaotic, he even admits that, that is what I think you might mean when you say he goes nowhere. Igor

Actually, this is a very interesting article that presents a very interesting point of view on the counterpoint between images and music. It is very valid, and although as mentioned above the ideas are not original, since they come from obvious sources, from Adorno to Hegel passing through Schoenberg, the expressionist school of thought. The premise is based on dialectic synthesis, that means the presence of two seemingly incongruous (not opposing) elements leading to a certain unexpected synthesis. The main weaknesses I can discern while reading through it once are a certain intolerance for other 'conventions' even though some of those he mentions are trully superficial and annoying, a certain ignorance of Williams, and a tendency to use random examples to back his point, some of them very weak. For the first, well it may be unavoidable since he is defending his school of thought, but it sometimes is unnecessary to pursue: for example, Amadeus could have been interesting if scored with Stravinsky. Yes it would show the director's point of view, be more individualistic, less redundant, less psychological and more sociological etc... But that is simply not the goal of the movie. I don't know if this is for the better or the worse, but I know it is pointless. As for the second point, I mean he barely attacks Williams himself, but instead groups everything connected to modern film music under an umbrella carrying his name, supposing that all that Williams writes is transparent music that runs parallalel to the action on the screen. Well he does a lot of that, but he does it well, but at the same time, that is not all he does. I mean, is it wrong to suggest? And last of all, there are few examples that support his thesis, and that is because mainstream commercial movies cannot go for that school of thought. But that is not a testament of the futility of his argument, rather an outlook on all the uncharted waters we still have to discover!! In all it is a good article, but it needs to poisition itself against something to find a place and garner attention since it is in the minority (at least in cinema as an art form), hence the title. 'Living With Williams' just wouldn't work. Igor

Catch me if you can. Igor

I personally think that both music and film work together in both cases.

Can't go, too expensive and I have stuff to do, I would have liked to make it though. Maybe next time. Igor

Wrong, it almost completely lacks a narrative. It's nearly 10 minutes very rythmic, very exciting music, that goes nowhere. Or worse, goes all over the place. Listen to A Visitor In San Diego for a far superiour version of this type of Williams music. Now that is wrong. It does have a very clear narrative and gets to its point by the end, and it also has very clear divisions to me. Very rhythmic, exciting music is an understatement, Steef, because that is the fabric that makes this type of music work. The Lost World track you mention is similar in some aspects, especially the last third, but that is about it. What I can tell you is that I instinctiely feel that after that sequence, both the movie and the music change gear, meaning that they both had a clear purpose. Musically speaking, there are many significant rhythmic motifs that drive on the music. That's more than enough. Igor

Final Destination: That was so predictable, I saw it coming minutes before! To me, it was a question of how the heck they were going to mess it up. Come on, woman starts screaming, walks off the pavement and onto the road, you don't even hear the bus coming, and suddenly it speeds off across the screen!! Cut to some 'oh my god' moments of shock and voila. Right... We were watching it at home with a couple of friends, and i think that's where i finally left to sleep.

The Lost World has a main theme, as for Planet of the Apes, I haven't listened to that for a very long time, but I remember hearing and reading about at least one main 12 note them, although I am not sure if there aren't any other themes dispersed insinde. Anyway, what is a theme? Sometimes I feel people on this board confuse theme with an easy-hummable melody (remember, POTA's main theme is a melody that is just more difficult to retain). A theme is more of an idee fixe that has some significance which hows through repitition. It is a sort of signature. In classical music, it is sometimes the basis of a piece, although how much it influences a piece varies greatly from one era to the other and from one piece to the other. In movies themes are more of a visual signature. I'm not even discussing secondary themes. Why do I say that? Because I sometimes read this: hear that great theme on track x. but this is simply a melody that appears once or twice in that track. Does that make it a theme? This is very debatable, but in most cases, no. I would agree that WOTW is basically themeless, but even there we have a melody, in Ray and Rachel. That means, in other words, that you can have a themeless score, which is rare, but you can't have a score without melody. There is a fine yet clear line between the both. A theme is a melody, while the opposite is not true. The Lost World is full of melody, ''textural melody'', and one fullblown bloody main theme. Other than WOTW, it is hard to think of something themeless right now. As for Powa, I could say that the drone sung by the low voices becomes a sort of visual signature that is repeated in the movie. It is not a conventional theme, with musical germs, periods, phrases, etc... but in the context of minimalist music, this is as close to a theme as we can get (Proof for that would be John Adams describing his Chairman Dances as being full of themes under a fabric of energized motifs). In traditional Western theoretical jargon it would be labeled as a motif or an obstinate bass note trying to gather an identity to itself through rythmical texture. I could go on for ages describing the differences between melody and theme, but the distinction has to be made from th beginning. Igor

I agree with Fable. But do you want a similar game that is much better in almost all departments?? Try Oblivion 4. The action takes time to heat up, but this is an AMAZING game!! Music very fitting too, courtesy of Jeremy Soule. Igor

Well, the Kong bug scene worked very well for me, I don't understand why people don't like it how it is. What's better, not scoring it? Maybe. Bug music? Cliche. More action oriented? Out of context. Claustrophobic music? Wrong movie. Give me some suggestions, but it is fresh, being chilling, atmospheric, dreamlike, tinged with melancholy and quite surprising. I'd take that approach any day.

WHO? Too bad for you. Igor

I've already met him twice, once in person back home in Lebanon. What to tell you, the guy is really nice, and he really is a monster!!! He can say alot of things with his music. You have to hear some of the work he did back in Europe, not all of it is easily accessible to everyone, yet I think he is in a league of his own. Part of the reason why he doesn't do much in Hollywood comes from himself actually. He admits he can't stand LA and the film industry in particular, especially now after Troy, methinks! Igor

great game KM!!!!!!! Igor

So, who's in????