steb74

Probably means the Dune Sea of Tatooine ........maybe??

Yes, it's the droids' music from Empire ...although the second bar of your example happens a couple of times in TFA The Scavenger track.

Yeah, count me in as another huge fan of this track! It really reminds me of Qui-Gon's theme and the type of track that Williams could have written for him had he been featured and developed more. Many elements of Rey's theme also remind me of Qui-Gon too ....maybe she's his granddaughter? ha I quickly threw the track up against the final lightsaber fight between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Darth Maul and for me there's almost an infinite improvement in the energy of the scene. https://vimeo.com/150551798 I've never been a fan of this particular fight and while I'm a fan of Duel Of The Fates as a piece of music it doesn't really fit my aesthetic of SW, except for a handful of times and in particular when it's used during the destruction of the Trade Federation ship and elements of it play alongside the force theme. For me DOTF is the wrong music for the scene, add that to the over the top choreography and I just feel no excitement or tension, too light and balletic. MOTR though with its fugue style works wonderfully for me, the independent musical voices working together or against each other makes so much more emotional and dramatic sense ....dare I say that this scene might actually feel a little exciting now and worthy of a little emotional investment, I never thought I'd say that!!! It's just a shame that as the music is reaching some of its glorious peaks the bloody energy shield kicks in!

Yeah, I'm sure that's fair, ha Even now I still find little musical ideas/connections in the original SW that also fit dramatically, to foreshadow or further the story and would love to know if some of them were conscious decisions or just the result of unconsciously breaking up core musical material and insightfully applying it as a story telling device. Too many of these things work so well to serve the drama for them to be coincidences but for a composer to think about all of those things individually and consciously would probably ruin the natural flow of the music. I think with highly developed insight, great dramatic instincts and an enormous musical vocabulary a great composer can't help but write music that has very deep connections as a whole, whether they're meant to be discovered or not.

I'm certainly not an apologist ....Williams doesn't need one. There's an article I'm looking everywhere for where Williams addresses something about this idea of people finding connections. He said that people probably do find connections he hadn't consciously written but that didn't mean they weren't valid connections. People like Williams, Goldsmith and most of the old school do this naturally as a long form musical response, deconstructing larger chunks of material or ideas, while addressing in their own style the dramatic needs of the movie.

I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that gets it but a lot of this can only be based on assumption when analysing long form ideas unless we have the benefit of the composer themselves breaking down and deconstructing the music for us. However a keen ear or even some musical training can help to provide a musicological basis for defending any conclusions reached .....that still might not make something definitively written in stone but the connections that are found and how they might relate to the dramatic arc they underscore can certainly be grounds enough for closer inspection instead of easily dismissing them. You can most certainly find overwhelming similarities in The Patriot track and TFA track, although first you could re-route it through Anakin's Betrayal, Immolation Scene, Padme's Visit, etc ....there's a lot of The Patriot in the prequels. Whatever emotion Williams is trying to evoke or whatever he is trying to capture musically obviously has nothing to do with a space saga or the location and context of the church. The similar style he uses in these lamentful pieces more reflects Williams' feelings on the kind of murder/tragedy aspect so the core similarities of the subject matter can't help but request Williams to respond with an equal amount of similarity. I'd feel a lot less stable with Williams' musical voice if everything that was similar in emotion was approached emotionally different by him, although this can also depend on the decisions by the director and composer of how the music will function in a movie.

You know it's something that I'd love to do but doing it justice would be such a colossal task. That said, yeah I should try to at least find some examples of what I mean .....it's just hard to break away from my current TFA binge. Have you checked out Ludwig's Battle of the Heroes Analysis for example? That has some great information in it. http://www.filmmusicnotes.com/celebrating-star-wars-themes-part-6-of-6-battle-of-the-heroes/ I know some people might get put off when they see written musical examples or a certain amount of theory being used but his analysis are not like that and the tech talk is only there to help provide some immediate comparisons. Check it out if you haven't and his other ones.

Well that's not really true unless it's being compared to how Shore might do it. The thematic material in the prequels is in a constant state of development but in a much more cellular way. There is a lot of material that travels from one film and into the next one and used as a long term development following the whole arc of the 'fall from grace' and more or less from the start of each movie so much of what you hear are the building blocks of what will lead to the big set piece presentation of the film's big theme in each movie, the duel of the fates fight, the arena (across the stars), the battle of the heroes fight. There are so many ideas from across the stars that can be found in Ep3 and fused with that movie's new ideas to becoming the new building blocks that lead to the inevitably constructed new main theme of the movie, I think this is the most overlooked aspect of the music in the prequels. So there is almost always development but it's just done in a different way than what people hear from Shore.

Yes, the sabre fights in the prequels are atrocious, they always have been. The only one I like and the only one that I feel belongs to the SW universe is Qui-Gon's first encounter with Maul. I think so many things about the scene work, unfortunately it's an almost isolated incident.

Yeah, also from about 1:20 of 'Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle' is very reminiscent of the music in Empire leading up to and including Vader's reveal in Echo Base (about 12:00, track 5, 'Battle Of Hoth' on the Empire SE), similar to what happens on screen in TFA.

Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Oh no!! Shit!!! RIP Lemmy

Yeah, it's great ...it's from here in case you're interested - http://vi-control.net/community/threads/nerd-alert-is-john-williams-spoiling-things-in-tfa-soundtrack.50679/ Ivan is a good friend and also a great composer in his own right.

Oh come on man ...the 'enlighten me' challenge, really? I'll give that a miss thanks. Well if you prefer Ron Jeremy to Lex Steele, that's your prerogative. I agree, that's exactly what it felt like! Totally inappropriate ...it felt like a quick poke in the eye and completely pulled me out of the moment. Maybe I overestimate how popular that version is among SW fans but in my opinion at that point in the movie her character felt undeserving of that particular variation. I'm sure we all have different interpretations of that cue but whatever JJ was going for by tracking it in didn't work at all for me.

You know. You can compare the two intros back to back. TFA_vs_STAR_WARS.mp3

Not even close Stefan, you're trying too hard.

Well considering it's a fantastic score the only reason can be is that you haven't yet unraveled its subtleties because 0/5 is a statement rather than a belief.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that characterisation and acting almost repel the theme. I think Vader's theme stands wonderfully in both worlds, working a character theme perhaps even because of the lack of acting and also just as a dominating and oppressing type musical idea that a viewer could identify with. SW for me is basically just thematic ideas rather than characterisations anyway.

I think Anakin's theme could have achieved that or at least had the potential to had it not failed on the final points you make.

No prob man, they just jumped out at me as being the same notes ...albeit a little stretched out and the 'extra' note. It probably helps that the intro to Solo and the Princess is one of my favourite musical moments in the history of everything, ha

Finn's Trek is another fantastic track and I get a really strong SW and Empire vibe from this one. I haven't seen the film yet so I don't know what's happening on screen (although perhaps the name is a clue! ha) but the opening 4 note motif is so similar and sounds so similar to Solo and the Princess (Ab, G, F) .....Finn's Trek (Ab, G, E, F), the only difference being the added half step to get to the 'F'. Whether or not this has any direct relation to what is happening onscreen, I'll have to wait and see. Or maybe Williams is just setting up the theme and planting the first seeds.

Indeed it does

Absolutely man!

The additional tracks are such a welcome addition and really help to glue together the overall musical vision of the story. The Bombing Run is awesome and very reminiscent of the OT and Yavin at times, good stuff indeed

In some ways it's hard to disagree with that especially since it's so closely modeled on one of the versions from Cloud City, which has always reminded me of Rogo and Linda from The Poseidon Adventure anyway, it seems to be a vibe that Williams likes to use when dealing with couples in close quarters. I haven't seen TFA yet so I have no idea how this track will function in the movie. One thing I will say though having heard that theme in the cinema when it first came out (TESB) is that its presentation here, or really I should say how the melody is presented here really does speak (to me) in a way that feels tired and aged by life but still with a glimmer of hope and adolescent naivety, it's hard for it not to be touching. The first time that we're introduced to the theme is when Luke and Han are out on Hoth.