Lord of the Rigns 'EU'

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Does anyone here have all the books written by Tolkien and his son (and other people if there are) about Middle Earth?

I would really like to read a story about Gandalf and Co. (Istari people) How they came, what they did, ect... There is a small resume in the Simarillionm but it is unsatisfying.

Also if there is any book about just one of them

And if there is one about the dragons too

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Read Christopher Tolkien's Histories of Middle-earth. It has everything you need to know about Middle-earth and more. I believe it's about 12 volumes, plus a 13th book that's the index for the other 12.

[Incanus 5,716]

The Histories of Middle-Earth series indeed is the one you should seek out. It has huge amounts of diverse information about Tolkien's world and wonderful insight into the writing process of LotR itself. I have been too poor to buy the books myself (since they cost here about 20€ each) but I have read some of them.

The information about the Istari can be found in the Book of Unfinished Tales which contains an essay on the Wizards amoung other interesting stories and histories of Middle-Earth.

Unfortunately there is no single book about the Wizards as Tolkien did not go too deeply into their origin or even their mission in Middle-Earth. There were 5 all in all, the 3 familiar from LotR (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast,) and 2 of them,Ithryn Luin, "the Blue Wizards" are mentioned fleetingly here and there in Tolkien's writings.

And Marc there is never enough information about Middle-Earth.

So many things were left unsettled when Tolkien passed away. I have thousands of questions that go unanswered to this day.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

The information about the Istari can be found in the Book of Unfinished Tales which contains an essay on the Wizards amoung other interesting stories and histories of Middle-Earth.

Thanks

Unfortunately there is no single book about the Wizards as Tolkien did not go too deeply into their origin or even their mission in Middle-Earth. There were 5 all in all, the 3 familiar from LotR (Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast,) and 2 of them,Ithryn Luin, "the Blue Wizards"

Alatar and Pallando

I forgot to mention, is there any story related to Gwaihir and/or the Lords of the Wind?

[Romão 2,274]

I just hope they are better than the DUNE EU. Brian Herbert's books are awful.

[Incanus 5,716]

Well the History of Middle-Earth books are a collection of Tolkien's own writings so they can't be perhaps called expanded universe material. The books contain largely Tolkien's old papers and essays which his son Christopher has edited and annotated.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

They're not "expanded universe" for sure. Rather, perhaps "universe in construction". Bear in mind that plenty of things "officially" changed after both the original and revised editions of LOTR, and those contains errors also. In many cases, there's a whole series of partly contradictory plot outlines for the same story and/or characters. No, Lucas was not the first to do this (and Tolkien wasn't, either); and let's not even get into the whole Riddles in the Dark confusion.

As for Unfinished Tales, I'm currently re-reading them, and promptly found an error in PJ's FOTR. Tolkien explains, in a lengthy footnote, why Isildur didn't have "horses fit for riding" on his journey that led to the Disaster at the Gladden Fields... That's one of the great things about Tolkien, there's far more detail to pretty much every single event and sentence than is obvious from just reading LOTR.

The Patriot

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Since I knew Tolkien had written these books thats why I put EU between commas

In the simarillion, in the Lord of the Rings resumé, Tolkien wastes one line mentioning the Dunédain were in the battle as well as Elrond's sons...

He mustthought it important to mention it...

[ridan 0]

Well, the Silmarillion and all of its constituent parts are written from the point of view of the Elves. So it would make sense to glorify the Elves more than the Men.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Well i really didnt meant that...

Just that Jakcson left them out, and i think it would have been interesting to see the dunedain...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It would have been too much information.

There were a lot more people than just the Men of Gondor and the Men Rohan at the battle of Minas Tirith too. But RotK is already a more than three-hour movie. And it runs for four hours in the extended cut. I really don't see how they could have also included Prince Imrahil or Ghân-Buri-Ghân without making it really convoluted.

[ridan 0]

Indeed. I think it would have been cool, but if Jackson had tried to stay true to every detail of the books, the story would be drowned in information.

Not to mention the films would be at least a day long each.

[John Crichton 4]

I'm actually currently re-reading The Silmarillon. A brilliant work, but it's an even tougher first read than LotR is. It's written more in the form of a history text than a novel, with very little dialog and large events taking place in just a few lines or graphs. And Men are actually pretty involved in the First Age, there's the House of Hador, Beren, and the tradgedy of Turin Turambar. But it is mostly about the Elves because the First Age was their age.

I'll probably re-read The Unfinished Tales next too.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I never made it through the very first text in The Silmarillion.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I'm actually currently re-reading The Silmarillon. A brilliant work, but it's an even tougher first read than LotR is. It's written more in the form of a history text than a novel, with very little dialog and large events taking place in just a few lines or graphs.

It can be a really tough read (Unfinished Tales even more so though, and I'm sure the HoM series takes it another step further), but it's brilliant. I still think someone should make some sort of "documentary" TV series out of it. And/or a cycle of symphonic poems. Ainulindalë screams for a musical treatment (whether anyone could give justice to the text is a different matter...), as does the pure score of Akallabêth.

...and of course, the Lay of Leithian is opera material.

Aet (Michael Nyman)

[ridan 0]

I think that if they make another Middle-Earth movie (aside from the Hobbit), it should be based on the Akallabêth. It would make a more sensible prequel to LOTR, seeing that most of LOTR is influenced by the events that occur in it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Basically, LOTR is just (well, more or less) the final chapter of the whole body of Tolkien's writings. Which, as we know, fills plenty of books by now.

[John Crichton 4]

Beren and Luthian would make a wonderful movie on its own, outside the context of the rest of the history. It's the best part of The Silmarillion I think.

[Incanus 5,716]

Silmarillion is indeed brilliant work. But it is more of a series of epic tales from the First And Second Age edited together by Christopher Tolkien to provide a more or less precise presentation of the early history of Arda. The book is like a great collection of myths bound into a one volume united by the history of Middle-earth and elves. The beginning of the book is very biblical in tone (Tolkien writes so well in this dramatic style) as it narrates the birth of the world in a similar way as in any mythological genesis story.

Silmarillion is by its very nature fragmentary. It moves pretty logically in the time line of Middle-Earth but it mainly describes great historical events and cataclysms and occasionally plunges deeper into the histories and picks up an individual story and even main characters to follow. This style to present material has of course been entirely up to Christopher Tolkien as he has compiled this book from the papers of his late father much in the same way as he has done with HoM series.

Btw Turin Turambar story, which is one of my favourites, is based on Finnish national epic Kalevala, the story of Kullervo. Tolkien was brilliant in injecting these varied subtle references from other mythologies into his own, which makes his stories a kind of universal mythology. That in part might explain the huge success of his novels. They appeal to so many as they contain elements from so many cultures and mythologies.

I think individual stories from Silmarillion would make wonderful movies even though they would still be very episodic. Musical treatment of Silmarillion would be wonderful but I think taking up such a difficult task would frighten most composers The Song of Ainur alone would be such a demanding piece to write.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

It would have been too much information.

There were a lot more people than just the Men of Gondor and the Men Rohan at the battle of Minas Tirith too. But RotK is already a more than three-hour movie. And it runs for four hours in the extended cut. I really don't see how they could have also included Prince Imrahil or Ghân-Buri-Ghân without making it really convoluted.

Well leave out all the anduril subplot, give it to aragorn in FOTR and there you have about ten minutes to spare .

[Incanus 5,716]

It would have been too much information.

There were a lot more people than just the Men of Gondor and the Men Rohan at the battle of Minas Tirith too.

I absolutely have to nit pick.

If we are precise there are only Rohan's and Gondor's forces at the Battle of Pelennor fields. Of course if you count the Dúnedain then there are certainly more (not much but still). But Jackson makes mention of Haradrim and Easterlings in the films. There are some smaller groups that are left unmentioned but nothing significant.

But you are right about the fact that there would have been way too much information and certainly e.g. the sequences where Gondor's forces arrive would have taken too much time to explain and introduce new characters. There was such a wealth of detail that had to be abandoned when making thess movies but the films still work as films.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Btw Turin Turambar story, which is one of my favourites, is based on Finnish national epic Kalevala, the story of Kullervo.

Someone I know () keeps phantasizing of some big musical epic based on Narn i Chîn Húrin. I keep telling him about Sibelius' Kullervo. He still hasn't heard it.

Tolkien was brilliant in injecting these varied subtle references from other mythologies into his own, which makes his stories a kind of universal mythology. That in part might explain the huge success of his novels. They appeal to so many as they contain elements from so many cultures and mythologies.

Indeed. "Both rings are round", but they have far more in common than he was ready to admit. Invisibility items, broken swords that are reforged, a ring granting vast power that corrupts nearly everyone who's heard of it... Not to mention that both works draw a lot of their influences from the Edda.

[ridan 0]

It would have been too much information.

There were a lot more people than just the Men of Gondor and the Men Rohan at the battle of Minas Tirith too. But RotK is already a more than three-hour movie. And it runs for four hours in the extended cut. I really don't see how they could have also included Prince Imrahil or Ghân-Buri-Ghân without making it really convoluted.

Well leave out all the anduril subplot, give it to aragorn in FOTR and there you have about ten minutes to spare .

Yeah, but then we'd miss the amazing rendition of the 'Silver Trumpets' theme as the Elves reforge it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

One of the best moments in the score, one of the best moments in the film.

[King Mark 3,631]

In many cases, there's a whole series of partly contradictory plot outlines for the same story and/or characters. No, Lucas was not the first to do this (and Tolkien wasn't, either); and let's not even get into the  

Tolkien raped my childhood by changing his books.

K.M.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Tolkien's chances were not so obvious and scatterbrained.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

I think that if they make another Middle-Earth movie (aside from the Hobbit), it should be based on the Akallabêth. It would make a more sensible prequel to LOTR, seeing that most of LOTR is influenced by the events that occur in it.

Apparently you're not the only one thinking this... Helge Fauskanger, who maintains a marvelous site about Tolkien's Middle-earth languages, wrote a kind of treatment for a possible (if unlikely to be made) film about the downfall of Númenor.

Helge Fauskanger's ideas on a Westernesse movie

It's in two parts (with a lengthy introduction - well, he's a scholar ), and not completely finished (in terms of getting to the end of the story), but he mentioned he will finish it eventually... entertaining read!