Another thread about Memoirs

[Josh500 1,615]

What exactly do you like about this score? As heard in the movie/CD? Please be specific.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Everything!!!!

I only wonder how it would be if it was for a smaller ensemble, or maybe even a duet, like in the iTunes tracks...

And by the way, my favourite is "As the water...", which I'll playing right away.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I have - for some reason - not yet seen the film.

But the album is great. I couldn't stop listening to it when I got it. That hadn't happened in a long time. Too much stuff I like to name it all. I should listen to it again, actually.

[John Crichton 4]

Becoming a Geisha is one of Williams' great 21st century cues.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Everything!!!!

I concur

[QMM 4]

I have - for some reason - not yet seen the film.

You really do gain a whole new appreciation for the score when you see it. I found a lot of little bits that I had never even noticed before.

[Romão 2,274]

I can only fully appreciate the brilliance of As The Water after seeing the film.

[Trumpeteer 302]

The music was one of the few things I enjoyed about the film after seeing it (along with the costumes). I bought the CD and spent weeks loving the music again. But "Munich" overthrew "Memoirs" as the best score of the year, and "Memoirs" sat unopened for months.

After the recent Grammy nominations, I played it again. Very good music. But nothing on there is as good as "Munich."

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I can only fully appreciate the brilliance of As The Water after seeing the film.

You depend too much on your eyes, my friend. Only if you close them and open your heart, will you really love the music.

Wow, that one was inspired... have to use it one of this days at lunch break

[Morlock 11]

I have - for some reason - not yet seen the film.

You really do gain a whole new appreciation for the score when you see it. I found a lot of little bits that I had never even noticed before.

You gain a new appreciation for the music, yes- but, be warned. The movie is not very good. It's made bearable by the music.

And I, like most others, love the score. It's quite a fantastic piece. I have often spoken about how amazing the main theme is, and what JW does with it. When I first was getting to know the score, I immidaitely jumped to 'Confluence', and it didn't sound like much. But after you experience that beautiful restraint throughout the score, 'Confluence' is such a stunning track, the first time the restraint is gone, and the theme can truely bloom. And those end titles are just the icing on the cake. Pity the end credits of the film started with 'The Chairman's Waltz'. It's a fine piece, but I strongly feel that the end credits should have started with the End credits, and not get to it after a couple of minutes.

[Romão 2,274]

I can only fully appreciate the brilliance of As The Water after seeing the film.

You depend too much on your eyes, my friend. Only if you close them and open your heart, will you really love the music.

Wow, that one was inspired... have to use it one of this days at lunch break

I can´t help be moved by the sheer magic that is created when music and images trully match.

[Henry B 50]

And I, like most others, love the score. It's quite a fantastic piece. I have often spoken about how amazing the main theme is, and what JW does with it. When I first was getting to know the score, I immidaitely jumped to 'Confluence', and it didn't sound like much. But after you experience that beautiful restraint throughout the score, 'Confluence' is such a stunning track, the first time the restraint is gone, and the theme can truely bloom. And those end titles are just the icing on the cake. Pity the end credits of the film started with 'The Chairman's Waltz'. It's a fine piece, but I strongly feel that the end credits should have started with the End credits, and not get to it after a couple of minutes.

"Confluence" to me is just Sayuri's theme plus Western chords and instrumentation. It's an emotional payoff, but not consistent with the rest of score.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I can only fully appreciate the brilliance of As The Water after seeing the film.

You depend too much on your eyes, my friend. Only if you close them and open your heart, will you really love the music.

Wow, that one was inspired... have to use it one of this days at lunch break

I can´t help be moved by the sheer magic that is created when music and images trully match.

Yes, you're right, but the music can still do it all for me

[Morlock 11]

"Confluence" to me is just Sayuri's theme plus Western chords and instrumentation. It's an emotional payoff, but not consistent with the rest of score.

Oh, it's very consistent. It's JW writing, just like the rest of the score. The entire score was building up towards that moments.

[Incanus 5,715]

Memoirs of a Geisha is in its entirety a beautiful and stunning score. It is thoughtful and emotional. An absolute gem. Williams is very consistent as far as the structure of the music is concerned and his music assumes almost a contemplative quality on many tracks. It reflects the culture which is restrained and lacks the show of open emotion. Music seems detached but still contains a deep emotional undercurrent. Williams builds his score slowly to that emotional peak in Confluence in which the music gains release when all pretentions and facades are dropped and music expresses pure emotion. The score works very well both on album and in film.

I find the use of the themes highly effective. Williams' main inspiration for much of them was water which is an important element in the story. His music flows, trickless and churns like water all the time conveying the inevitable sense and flow of destiny and fate. Repeating patterns, dense strings in lower registers and percussion drive the music all the time.

Chiyo's two themes represent the two sides of the character: Chiyo's theme describes the fragile little girl that is the real person behind the masks and Sayuri's theme speaks of what she becomes, a seemingly polished and confident and refined geisha. In the end those two themes come together as the person becomes whole and stops pretending. Cello as the main instrument for Sayuri is also perfect as it has both strength and fragility in its voice just as the character has in her. Sayuri's theme goes through a number of variations and is finally presented in all its glory in the center piece Becoming a Geisha. The theme goes on a journey from forlong statement in Journey to the Hanamachi into a complex and dizzying display of colour and passion in Becoming a Geisha which is truly great character development through music.

Chairman's Waltz is highly polished and represents Western music style and gives the feeling of someone who is cultured, refined and educated. There is a hint of romance in it but it never blooms into a full blown statement. It fits the character who hides his feelings behind a cool facade untill the end of the film.Violin as the instrument of choice was also inspired as it has that refined quality to it.

The track As the Water... is perhaps the single most beautiful cue on the disc. It is in essence a deconstruction of the Waltz orchestrated for 2 cellos, oboe and a harp and conveys both the passage of time with that waltz pizzicato ticking away on cellos and also Chiyo's sorrow and weariness of the war and her longing for the Chairman.

The Fate is represented in many ways most notably with the ebbing and flowing string figure in Chiyo's Prayer, Finding Satsu and The Fire Scene and the Coming of War. Few other small motifs also appear on other tracks (9, 12, 13) representing various aspects of fate and Chiyo's destiny.

The score has variety and colour and Williams approach was very effective. Western music style helps the audiences emotionally to follow the story and the Japanese influences anchor the score to a time and setting. The instrumental solos add very much to the music and give it an intimate feeling. Cello, violin and oboe have all a beautiful lyrical quality and in the hands of these accomplished artists they have even greater impact. One the most beautiful and deeply moving Williams scores in recent memory.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Very well put... very well put indeed.

[Romão 2,274]

Excelent post, Mikko.

[crocodile 8,018]

I like it because it doesn't bore me at all, like some of the JW's drama scores. I sustains my interest all the way through. It is that simple.

Karol

[Josh500 1,615]

Memoirs of a Geisha is in its entirety a beautiful and stunning score. It is thoughtful and emotional. An absolute gem. Williams is very consistent as far as the structure of the music is concerned and his music assumes almost a contemplative quality on many tracks. It reflects the culture which is restrained and lacks the show of open emotion. Music seems detached but still contains a deep emotional undercurrent. Williams builds his score slowly to that emotional peak in Confluence in which the music gains release when all pretentions and facades are dropped and music expresses pure emotion. The score works very well both on album and in film.

I find the use of the themes highly effective. Williams' main inspiration for much of them was water which is an important element in the story. His music flows, trickless and churns like water all the time conveying the inevitable sense and flow of destiny and fate. Repeating patterns, dense strings in lower registers and percussion drive the music all the time.

Chiyo's two themes represent the two sides of the character: Chiyo's theme describes the fragile little girl that is the real person behind the masks and Sayuri's theme speaks of what she becomes, a seemingly polished and confident and refined geisha. In the end those two themes come together as the person becomes whole and stops pretending. Cello as the main instrument for Sayuri is also perfect as it has both strength and fragility in its voice just as the character has in her. Sayuri's theme goes through a number of variations and is finally presented in all its glory in the center piece Becoming a Geisha. The theme goes on a journey from forlong statement in Journey to the Hanamachi into a complex and dizzying display of colour and passion in Becoming a Geisha which is truly great character development through music.  

Chairman's Waltz is highly polished and represents Western music style and gives the feeling of someone who is cultured, refined and educated. There is a hint of romance in it but it never blooms into a full blown statement. It fits the character who hides his feelings behind a cool facade untill the end of the film.Violin as the instrument of choice was also inspired as it has that refined quality to it.

The track As the Water... is perhaps the single most beautiful cue on the disc. It is in essence a deconstruction of the Waltz orchestrated for 2 cellos, oboe and a harp and conveys both the passage of time with that waltz pizzicato ticking away on cellos and also Chiyo's sorrow and weariness of the war and her longing for the Chairman.  

The Fate is represented in many ways most notably with the ebbing and flowing string figure in Chiyo's Prayer, Finding Satsu and The Fire Scene and the Coming of War. Few other small motifs also appear on other tracks (9, 12, 13) representing various aspects of fate and Chiyo's destiny.

The score has variety and colour and Williams approach was very effective. Western music style helps the audiences emotionally to follow the story and the Japanese influences anchor the score to a time and setting. The instrumental solos add very much to the music and give it an intimate feeling. Cello, violin and oboe have all a beautiful lyrical quality and in the hands of these accomplished artists they have even greater impact. One the most beautiful and deeply moving Williams scores in recent memory.

Wow, great analysis, thanks. Now, you say As the Water ... is the single most beautiful track on the score. Why is that? Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, but I'd guess the more obvious choice would be Becoming a Geisha, Going to School, The Chairman's Waltz, or Confluence. Do I have to see the movie over and over again to appreciate As the Water ... to the fullest?

It's a quiet, reflective, rather poignant piece, but I don't get what's so great about it.

[Romão 2,274]

Trust me Josh, and I'll disagree with Miguel on this one...As the Water is simply sublime in the movie. Probably the single best scene in the entire movie.

[Josh500 1,615]

Trust me Josh, and I'll disagree with Miguel on this one...As the Water is simply sublime in the movie. Probably the single best scene in the entire movie.

Well, Merkel, I have seen the movie twice (in the cinema and on DVD, rented). That particular scene isn't clear in my memory, so I guess I have to buy the DVD now -- I've seen it on sale for 7.99 Euro.

[Romão 2,274]

It's the scene after the the evacuation sequence. You just see a stream of water and Sayuri's narration about the consequences of war.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, I did watch it, but I certainly wouldn't call that scene the best in terms of score. Or am I missing something?

For me, the best scenes (musically) are still: Going to School, The Chairman's Waltz, Becoming a Geisha, and Confluence.

[Incanus 5,715]

It is impossible to say a specific reason why As the Water... is so beautiful to me. Same goes for everything that has to do with personal tastes. There is no ultimate truth about it, just opinions. I just feel that the track is beautiful and meaningful to me and touches me personally. There are many other tracks in the score that I love. As the Water... is just one of them. And I think it works very well in the film.

[Morlock 11]

Trust me Josh, and I'll disagree with Miguel on this one...As the Water is simply sublime in the movie. Probably the single best scene in the entire movie.

Well, within the film, it struck me as the most artistic image, with score to match. And on the album,it is simply quite beautiful.

[crocodile 8,018]

It is impossible to say a specific reason why As the Water... is so beautiful to me. Same goes for everything that has to do with personal tastes. There is no ultimate truth about it, just opinions. I just feel that the track is beautiful and meaningful to me and touches me personally. There are many other tracks in the score that I love. As the Water... is just one of them. And I think it works very well in the film.

It is one of my favourites tracks. I love the moment in the film when you don't know yet who's Sayuri's guest and you can hear shades of Chairman's waltz then, just as if you could actually know who is she thinking about at this particular moment.

Karol

[Josh500 1,615]

The moment that impressed me the most in Memoirs is when you hear The Chairman's Waltz for the first time. He's buying her sweet ice, she's watching him, and the music starts to play -- and you know, you simply know, that something big has happened. This is so profoundly moving I watched that scene over and over again.

Also, Going to School is fantastic. Especially when Chiyo and Pumpkin are running through the narrow streets, you can hear Yo-Yo Ma's chello accompanying their every bouncy step. Simply breathtaking.

[QMM 4]

I have - for some reason - not yet seen the film.

You really do gain a whole new appreciation for the score when you see it. I found a lot of little bits that I had never even noticed before.

You gain a new appreciation for the music, yes- but, be warned. The movie is not very good. It's made bearable by the music.

I actually enjoyed the film the first time through, the issue with the thin characters and whatnot came into my mind but it didn't bother me that much. I want to watch it again so we'll see what happens.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Trust me Josh, and I'll disagree with Miguel on this one...As the Water is simply sublime in the movie. Probably the single best scene in the entire movie.

But you don't... The piece in the film is in fact sublime. My point is that the music do not need the film to achieve that status. And in the end, as Mikko said, is all about tastes in the end...

[tpigeon 3]

This is far from just another Memoirs thread. It's the best one on Memoirs I can remember. Great posts, guys!

Ted, who loves the score

[Josh500 1,615]

My point is that the music do not need the film to achieve that status.

Well, with a John Williams score, that's sort of a given.

And, like I said, As the Waters ... IS profoundly moving and I like that scene a lot. I just don't know whether that's the best in the movie (score-wise). But, like YOU said, that's a matter of taste. But I have to watch the scene a few more times to make up my mind about it in any case. Also, in the featurette you can briefly see Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman struggling over that piece. That was sort of interesting.

And something else: John Williams tells Perlman at one point (while he's playing The Chairman's Waltz) that he should start on the B. He does, and then Perlman plays something else to make some sort of statement (I think) and then everybody sorta laughs. What's that all about? Has anyone noticed that?

[Romão 2,274]

The moment that impressed me the most in Memoirs is when you hear The Chairman's Waltz for the first time. He's buying her sweet ice, she's watching him, and the music starts to play -- and you know, you simply know, that something big has happened. This is so profoundly moving I watched that scene over and over again.  

Also, Going to School is fantastic. Especially when Chiyo and Pumpkin are running through the narrow streets, you can hear Yo-Yo Ma's chello accompanying their every bouncy step. Simply breathtaking.

Specially the second and final statement of the theme, when you see Chiyo running through the orange corridor. Such a beautiful sequence for what was the turning point in her life.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

The moment that impressed me the most in Memoirs is when you hear The Chairman's Waltz for the first time. He's buying her sweet ice, she's watching him, and the music starts to play -- and you know, you simply know, that something big has happened. This is so profoundly moving I watched that scene over and over again.  

Also, Going to School is fantastic. Especially when Chiyo and Pumpkin are running through the narrow streets, you can hear Yo-Yo Ma's chello accompanying their every bouncy step. Simply breathtaking.

Specially the second and final statement of the theme, when you see Chiyo running through the orange corridor. Such a beautiful sequence for what was the turning point in her life.

The orange corridor sequence is surelly a stand out moment for me on the entire film... and again is just so great thanks to the contribution of John Williams.

[King Mark 3,631]

Memoirs is good but a bit overrated.The emotions are a bit too unscrutable for me and Sayuri's Theme isn't one of Williams best themes.The fact that is was the first Williams score to be mixed properly in the film in a looong time makes it appear better than it is.

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

Memoirs is good but a bit overrated.The emotions are a bit too unscrutable for me and Sayuri's Theme isn't one of Williams best themes.The fact that is was the first Williams score to be mixed properly in the film in a looong time makes it appear better  than it is.

Don't know what you meanby the emotions being to unscrutable...but I think even if Sayuri's theme is not one of JW's best melodies, it is one of his best themes. Perfectly captures the character and is used to great effect.

And it being prominant in the mix helped the film, not the score. I doubt I would like it more if it were buried in the mix.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Well, for most of the time I don't give a damn regarding the film or the way the music is used. My main interest is the music itself.

And while I to like to watch the films that have Williams music, is only out of curiosity, and not necessarily for any other interest in watching them. Fortunatelly, Williams did work on several great films that are a joy to watch.

Having said that, I care for his music, and if the film is of any interest, then that's great, if it isn't, well, the music is still something to care about.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

So did you like the film, Miguel?

[Henry B 50]

"Journey to the Hanamachi" is a good example of the Eastern/Western blend... the orchestration calls for many stringed instruments, but it sounds authentically, period-appropriately Japanese - though it obviously isn't. Not so with "Confluence." The chords are too thick, but the entrance of the French horns at the end is the last straw for me. Not to say that it's absolutely terrible... just a rather weak ending to a good score.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

So did you like the film, Miguel?

Yeah, I did. But my point is that I really don't care so much for the film it self. I care for the music, and that's the main reason I don't call my self a film music fan, rather a fan of music, much of which just happened to have been written for film.

[Panthera 0]

I need to see this movie, and I also need to see Munich.

[Morlock 11]

Munich is the more substantial of the two.

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah,but Memoirs is a lot more enjoyable to watch.

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

I don't kow about that....Munich has several virtuoso scenes.

[Josh500 1,615]

Yeah,but Memoirs is a lot more enjoyable to watch.

K.M.

Maybe, but Munich is the better movie. Memoirs just has the score (and Zhang Ziyi).

[Morlock 11]

And Dion Beebe.

[crocodile 8,018]

And three Oscars.

Karol

[tpigeon 3]

Yeah,but Memoirs is a lot more enjoyable to watch.

K.M.

Not if you define enjoyable as being witness to the joy of seeing great cinema. All of the elements of Munich gel, worth together, and arise naturally and organically from the others: the narrative, the visuals, the music, the characters, the scene juxtapositions, the ideas - it all comes together and feeds off each other. There are great executions of suspense and brilliant visual ways of exploring themes and characters. It's much more than a great-looking movie, which Memoirs most definitely is, but not much more.

Ted

[crocodile 8,018]

All right, it's more pretty. I would argue though. For me it's a bit artificial looking.

Karol

[Morlock 11]

That is not necasserily a plus.

[crocodile 8,018]

It isn't. You don't have sense of authenticity.

Karol