Charles Gerhardt & The National Philharmonic Orchestra

[mahler3 478]

The inclusion of the Gerhardt arranged and conducted 'essential Williams albums' prompts me to ask everyone if they, like me, were introduced to the wonderful world of film music as a result of the ground- breaking and simply impeccable 'Classic Film Score' series?

(However lest we forget his snooze inducing arrangement of Star Wars' Final Battle, don't know what he was thinking?!)

[Lurker 5]

(However lest we forget his snooze inducing arrangement of Star Wars' Final Battle, don't know what he was thinking?!)  

Hey don't knock "The Final Battle". I think it's a great arrangement of several pieces. Zubin Mehta also did a good recording of it (just called "The Battle"). And a good portion of this concert arrangement (which I think was done by Williams and not Gerhardt) was used in the revised track "Return of the Jedi" (now called "Sail Barge Assault").

Neil

[mahler3 478]

(However lest we forget his snooze inducing arrangement of Star Wars' Final Battle, don't know what he was thinking?!)  

Hey don't knock "The Final Battle". I think it's a great arrangement of several pieces. Zubin Mehta also did a good recording of it (just called "The Battle"). And a good portion of this concert arrangement (which I think was done by Williams and not Gerhardt) was used in the revised track "Return of the Jedi" (now called "Sail Barge Assault").

Neil

His arrangement of the 'Ewok Celebration' on ROTJ was excellent now, but I find the 'Final Battle' tempo far too slow, other than that his recordings are abolutely flawless

[Mattris 416]

Just to start something...

IMO, Charles Gerhardt & The National Philharmonic Orchestra's ESB recording is far from extrordinary due to the sub-standard trumpet section. From the first track on the CD, they crack notes. Pitch and matching problems are present throughout the recording. Can anyone else hear this?

I'll admit, some parts of the NPO's performance (strings/woodwinds mostly) sound "better" than the original recording, but my enjoyment of these certain parts is really on a different level than the (classic) original performance. Lacking the burden of having to play to the visual part of the film, Gerhardt and the orchestra were "free" to explore the music with no time constraints, producing a different interpretation. This is the inherent nature of RE-recordings. Being better or more enjoyable is always an opinion in terms of musicallity, but making performance errors is night and day. Making fewer or no errors is better - period.

The mixing/microphone placement on this recording session is inferior to the LSO's. The sucky NPO's trumpeters lucked out: Obviously not ready to record, they were mixed really quiet - something that should not have been evident in the final product.

This is a Star Wars score, and the trumpets - especially - sould be extremely skilled and confident, as they are the loudest and most piercing instruments in the orchestra (aside from the percussion). The fanfaric SW drive from the brass was certainly not present. Just compare these NPO's trumpeters to those of the LSO. The difference is astounding.

More rehersal time could also have imroved the NPO's final product... cheap Varese Saraband... Gerhardt's fault?

As we all know, John Williams' The Empire Strikes Back is a masterpiece in film scoring and musical composition. This is a professional effort from Gerhardt and the NPO, but poor trumpets and sound engineers screwed it up.

TIP --- To those who are looking to buy this CD, only do so if your curious to hear ESB from an ensemble having nothing to do with Williams. Otherwise, stick with the ESB SE.

[Morn 8]

IMO, Charles Gerhardt & The National Philharmonic Orchestra's ESB recording is far from extrordinary due to the sub-standard trumpet section. From the first track on the CD, they crack notes. Pitch and matching problems are present throughout the recording. Can anyone else hear this?

I do, and I don't think the Trombones are much better.

[mahler3 478]

You are correct in your statements pertaining to the Trumpet section as i had always noticed this Mattmane.

I do think they improve during the latter part of the album though, particularly during the far superior (IMO) version of the End Titles with the Timpani balance taking more of an active role (especially during the closing fanfare don't you think?)

Recording wise, it was one of the few albums that wasn't mixed by the RCA team (excluding George Korngold of course), so out of Gerhardt's recordings this was always the one that lost orchestral performance clarity. Too much treble primarily.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

The inclusion of the Gerhardt arranged and conducted 'essential Williams albums' prompts me to ask everyone if they, like me, were introduced to the wonderful world of film music as a result of the ground- breaking and simply impeccable 'Classic Film Score' series?

(However lest we forget his snooze inducing arrangement of Star Wars' Final Battle, don't know what he was thinking?!)  

To me, filmmusic was introduced by Williams and Gerhardt. Gerhardt recordings are essential in any film music colector collection!

As for the Final Battle, this is taken from Willimas arranged five movment suite. Gerhardt performance is just taken slower than Williams own, on the soundtrack.

[Marian Schedenig 8,206]

mattmane, I agree nearly 100%. I've always found their ESB recording to sound somewhat strange, and not up to NPO standards - listen to their other Gerhardt albums, or to anything they've done with Goldsmith, they're usually fantastic players. Also about the mixing, it sounds to me as if the order of the orchestra was reversed, the strings placed behind the winds...

TIP --- To those who are looking to buy this CD, only do so if your curious to hear ESB from an ensemble having nothing to do with Williams.  Otherwise, stick with the ESB SE.

I do have to disagree with this though. The Gerhardt album is the only disc I have that contains the concert arrangement of Han Solo and the Princess, and that cue is wonderful, especially the brief statement of Leia's theme.

Indysolo, yes, I think we can be pretty sure that The Final Battle (GREAT cue) is Williams' own arrangement. For one thing, it has a totally different climatic section than the OST (why would anyone other than Williams tweak with this). But more importantly, Gerhardt simply recorded the "official" suite. The one change he made was to ask Williams if he could include Here They Come!, and Williams liked the idea (is it now a part of the actual suite?) - I think that story is in the liner notes to Gerhardt's ESB, told by Williams IIRC.

And yes, mahler3, Gerhardt is responsible for my being here. 9 years ago or so, I didn't care at all about orchestral music, and the existence of film scores hadn't even entered my mind. One evening, I saw Gerhardt's SW/CE3K album in my father's CD shelf (dunno why I even bothered to look there, there was nothing but classical music in it). To this day, I have no idea why this CD got my attention, or why I decided to listen to it, having never seen the film. But next day I was a Williams fan, and a few days later, I didn't listen to any other music than film scores and classical music anymore.

[Ricard 2,245]

More rehersal time could also have imroved the NPO's final product... cheap Varese Saraband... Gerhardt's fault?

Geesh, you don't know that Varese had nothing to do with the recording and original release of this album? :?

The one change he made was to ask Williams if he could include Here They Come!, and Williams liked the idea (is it now a part of the actual suite?) - I think that story is in the liner notes to Gerhardt's ESB, told by Williams IIRC.

Actually it's in the liner notes of the Gerhardt SW/CE3K LP

Ricard - Who thinks that Gerhardt's recording of ESB is absolutely brilliant in every respect, and what others call flaws are in fact virtues. Undoubtedly one of the best score albums ever released.

[Lurker 5]

Ricard - Who thinks that Gerhardt's recording of ESB is absolutely brilliant in every respect, and what others call flaws are in fact virtues. Undoubtedly one of the best score albums ever released.

Agreed.

Neil

[Romão 2,274]

Gerhardt got me into Franz Waxman, with is recording of his classic scores. It's the only album I own from Gerhardt, but I think the performances in it were quite fantastic.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Ricard - Who thinks that Gerhardt's recording of ESB is absolutely brilliant in every respect, and what others call flaws are in fact virtues. Undoubtedly one of the best score albums ever released.

Agreed.

Neil

Same feelings here!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Ricard, Neil and Miguel.

Gerhardts TESB is a wonderfull album, with a great treatment of this great John Williams score.

Stefancos- who thinks the performance on the End Credits suite is fantastic.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Afterall, this album was the only way to have more music from ESB for a long time -- in fact I even had this one before the regular, 40-minute-long cd, released by Polydor.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And in better sound quailty....AND better sequence.

Stefancos- who still cannot understand why the polydor TESB CD has the Main titles on track 5 and the End Credits on track 6.

[Morn 8]

The best performance on that album is Asteroid Field Luke's First Crash and Han Solo and the Princess. They perhaps beat the OST. Luke's First Crash is really good too, aside from some awful playing by the trumpets and trombones. Battle in the snow is however spoiled by the trumpets as is the imperial march, rebels escape again and the end title. Rest of the tracks have weaker performance than OST but not that bad.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

And in better sound quailty....AND better sequence.

Stefancos- who still cannot understand why the polydor TESB CD has the Main titles on track 5 and the End Credits on track 6.  

I wonder if the first 5 tracks were put on these order to reflect the sequence order used on the five-movement concert suite.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, it just sucks!!!!

Stefancos- who has not listened to that CD since late 1995

[King Mark 3,631]

Williams conducting of the original Star Wars soundtrack in 77 is somewhat rough edged(not implying that it's bad,but very different sounding than his next much smoother sounding strings of recordings with the LSO).I think he was not yet in top conducting form for large orchestras as the LSO(it was his first).

K.M.