Pieter Boelen 740 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Every few days I will post a thread on a random score from my collection that we can discuss and rate. I made a playlist on my computer with one track of each score I've got, so by using the random play option, I'll be able to post a truly random score each time. Hopefully this will allow us to discuss some scores that would otherwise never be discussed. Also we can record the rating so that we can create a full list of the ratings given to scores by JWFan.com.Today's score is Star Trek VIII: First Contact by Jerry Goldsmith. Are you familiar with it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? How do do you think it works in the film? What are your favourite tracks?So far JWFan has rated:See Soundtrack Ratings by JWFan.com.This web page contains the ratings from all my previous polls as well as those of Blumenkohl's.Final ratings are converted to a 1-10 rating for both rating systems so that they can be compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Probably one of the best NG scores. Joel Goldsmith did a good job working with his dad. The Borg theme is basically a reworking of some music from Tora Tora Tora. But the first Contact theme is quite lovely and uplifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,138 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 That main theme was such a pleasant surprise. I remember seeing the film in the theater and expecting to hear the tried and true motion picture theme, and was really taken by surprise to hear such a gentle introspective theme open up a Trek movie.The rest of the score doesn't harmonize and gel quite as well for me, so I gave it 4 stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I voted 4.5 based on the wealth of superior material not found on the OST, but which is truly gorgeous Star Trek music. Perhaps not as good as TMP, but I enjoy listening to FC more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Solid score with some wonderful stuff. I prefer Insurrection, which clearly isn't in the same league as STTMP, so I can give this only a 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 4.5. I adore this score, but it took me quite a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I used to like the main theme. But last time I listened to it it seemed rather bored Goldsmith music. Still decent, but for my money Jerry had done the same stuff in other movies where he sounded more invested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 there is alot of crap in it, but I really like many parts of it. I gave it 3.5 stars. Not sure if I like it more than say Insurrection but its better than Nemesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 What is the crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 4.5 stars. He's collaboration with his son, Joel worked really well, I thought. It may sound like recycled Goldsmith to some, but, Jerry was in round one of his battle with cancer when he wrote it (why Joel was enlisted to help), so you have to take that into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 It would certainly be better if Goldsmith would've had more than 3 weeks to slap it together.As usual, the composer-produced album neglects some of the more varied stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I gave it 5 stars, easily my favorite TNG film score. He and his son did a fantastic job on that score.there is alot of crap in it, but I really like many parts of it. I gave it 3.5 stars. Not sure if I like it more than say Insurrection but its better than Nemesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Love the main theme, action music doesn't quite work for me. Still a lot of fun. 4 for the main theme alone. Favourite tracks: Main Title/Locutus, Red Alert, Welcome Aboard, First Contact. I'd go to 4.5 for the full complete score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Not to forget The Dish. The OST leaves out some of the best moments, though. The music heard in the hallway as Picard leads his commandos through Borg infested corridors. The music as the escape pods jettison. And I absolutely adore the entire sequence as the Enterprise fires on the Phoenix, the way that the music dynamically builds to a deliberately stretched out statement of the Enterprise's main theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 What is the crap?I'd say the electric sounding crap. I love the main and end titles. I think 3.5 is a good score for this soundtrack.I haven't listned to it in a long while. the stuff attributed to Joel is not that good. Its certainly not a 5 out of 5 star score, and its a not in STTMP's league no matter what others say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 League or not, I listen to it and like it more than STTMP. That may change in a day or so, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I gave it a 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'd say the electric sounding crap.You must be hearing a different score. There's no "electric sounding crap" in the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Not nearly as much as in your average mid-80s Goldsmith score.Besides, Borg are cybernetic organisms. Electronic sounding music is not entirely inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Its noise, not music.So Stefan what grade did you give it?Surely you know its inferior to STTMP. It can't touch Wrath of Khan, or Search for Spock, and its probably not as good as Final Frontier. The more I think about it the Voyage Home is better, and it did get a well deserved Oscar nomination to its credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Jerry was in round one of his battle with cancer when he wrote it (why Joel was enlisted to help), so you have to take that into account.That's news to me. The score was written in 96, I don't think he was ill back then already.And no, there really is no electronic sounding crap in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Surely you know its inferior to STTMP. It can't touch Wrath of Khan, or Search for Spock, and its probably not as good as Final Frontier. The more I think about it the Voyage Home is better, and it did get a well deserved Oscar nomination to its credit.I'm sorry, but is there somewhere I can go to buy your book of opinions, so I don't run afoul of your authoritative dissertations on soundtrack rankings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 there all right here Wojo, and if you can read between the lines you'd understand.besides you don't have to read my posts, but they are entirely calorie free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Ah. Well as a fat man, I don't mind telling you that calorie content doesn't phase me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 but the value of no calories and my opinion is the same, O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 So by reading your opinions, I will lose weight, because I will be ingesting no calories? How wonderful that sounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 4.5 stars. He's collaboration with his son, Joel worked really well, I thought. It may sound like recycled Goldsmith to some, but, Jerry was in round one of his battle with cancer when he wrote it (why Joel was enlisted to help), so you have to take that into account.I believe Joel was brought on because post production on The Ghost and The Darkness ran longer than expected and Goldsmith was pressed for time.I don't believe his illness had anything to do with it or if he was even sick at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 No, no, no, Im no Jared. I just throw out worthless opinions that only I value, I make no claim to a secret to weight loss though I do know it eat less exercise more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williamsfan301 11 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 4.5 stars. He's collaboration with his son, Joel worked really well, I thought. It may sound like recycled Goldsmith to some, but, Jerry was in round one of his battle with cancer when he wrote it (why Joel was enlisted to help), so you have to take that into account.I believe Joel was brought on because post production on The Ghost and The Darkness ran longer than expected and Goldsmith was pressed for time.I don't believe his illness had anything to do with it or if he was even sick at the time.No he was sick at the time, and this was battle #1 with cancer, which he won. The second battle is the one that claimed his life. I believe it is mentioned somewhere in what little we've seen of that bio that JG's daughter wrote.This is, however, a great example of wanting a more complete soundtrack release from JG. All the final action sequence music - from the launching of the Pheonix, the Enterprise firing on it, etc - isn't included and that was some GREAT action writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'll give it 4 stars. The new main theme is great as are some of the action tracks. There's a lot of music there I don't really care about though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 3.5.Some very lovely cues, and I find Joel's material to mesh well with Jerry's. The Borg music is creepy, but sometimes I feel that Ron Jones captured the overwhelming menace of the Borg much better in "The Best of Both Worlds". But overall, it never quite clicked with me as well as Insurrection and Nemesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 And I like this score better than either Insurrection or Nemesis. Maybe because I enjoyed this movie a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I stand by my statement there there is electronic sounding crap on the original cd, and mechanical sounds. I do not like that. I'm aghast at anyone saying this score is better than STTMP, its not even in its league. STTMP is a classic, one of the all time great motion picture scores, this is a good score that has issues, and I still think that the use of the Klingon music for Mr. Worf is highly inappropriate. I don't know if it was his choice or if #1 thought it would be cool, but it has no place here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have the highest confidence in Commander Riker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The Klingon theme works great for Worf in this score, mainly as it's more of an action movie. I get jazzed up every time I hear it. Much better that its token appearance in Insurrection, and of course why bother in Nemesis? Worf's barely in the movie anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 He did not wish to appear naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 He would have been better off sticking to targ hunting with Martok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'd love to see a Goldsmith-scored targ hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Half of Worf's lines in Nemesis were in the trailer and did not make the final cut.Although "Captain, I recommend extreme caution" coming from the man who stood side to side with his captain as the entire Klingon Empire threatened them both is pure cheese. So it was good to cut it.The usage of Klingon theme in First Contact in three key places is awesome. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 ya'll are too easily pleased. You settle instead of demanding the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Oh I don't know, everytime I hear the Klingon theme in the "Red Alert" cue it always manages to bring a smile to my face. I don't know if it's because Worf is commanding the Defiant or because he's going to ram the Borg cube in a blaze of glory. Makes me wonder if ole Jerry had a good chuckle as well, almost feels like a little musical joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 ya'll are too easily pleased. You settle instead of demanding the best.Why is it settling? It's a great theme that's used appropriately. I'd even call it inspired. The score would be less without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 how is it used appropriately? Its a theme for villians, and Worf is not a villian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's a theme for Klingons, not just Klingons as villians. It's a battle cry for a warrior race, which makes it perfect for Worf in First Contact, especially in the Defiant scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 we'll clearly never agree, its point of existance is as a villian theme but Im in the minority here.Just like the Enterprise theme is poorly used in Nemesis. You guys settle for it, I see it as lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Crichton 4 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yep, we'll disagree there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 how is it used appropriately? Its a theme for villians, and Worf is not a villian.Joey, you will never be happy because all you're doing is complaining how the great themes of ST: TMP were "abused" by subsequent Goldsmith Trek scores.The theme for the refit Enterprise so grandiosely introduced in The Motion Picture was recycled for the -A in Star Trek V, you got a problem with that? It was re-orchestrated for the -D in The Next Generation, granted by Goldsmith himself, but then he used it in First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis, but that was a brand new Enterprise, the -E. Should that ship have gotten its own theme, too, because it wasn't even a Kirk ship?The Klingon theme was used in The Motion Picture as the Klingons are attacked by V'Ger. The Klingons were not villains in that film, they were victims, featured for five minutes and then killed off. Their political associations at the time were irrelevant next to the power of V'Ger. The theme's appearance in Star Trek V makes more sense as the Klingons were antagonists in that film. But Goldsmith used it for Worf because he's a Klingon, not a bad guy, and blood is thicker than water.Do you have a problem with the four note motif that's used a couple times in Star Trek V, but then lathered on heavily in First Contact? Like a motif for Kirk is recycled for Picard, which is then used for Picard's speech in Nemesis, does that keep you up at night, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 No, I'm saying its lazy, and you're too simple to please I guess. I don't like it when Williams did it, at least in some ways he had the brains to turn them on themselves the Anakins theme does. Do you stay up at night trying to be clever and take me on with your feeble posts, go back to being a 12 year old boy now. And for the record I'm not really familiar with Star Trek V, horrible film and I never had any reason to buy the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Whatever, old man. Enjoy your Motion Picture score. Love it, embrace it, worship it. I can take it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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