Complete Cue List: The Lost World: Jurassic Park

[Datameister 2,044]

Hmmm...I might get a chance to do that at some point, but I'm afraid I wouldn't count on it. Sorry, Michael! I'm on to another project now...one that I Never Never thought I'd be working on right now...

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

No problem, man! It was just for fun, after all. Best of luck with your project, I'm sure we'll all be amazed with that!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I've just figured something. You know that cue heard in the film where Tembo loads the dart - 'Rescuing Sarah' tracked in? Well, there's curious pedal trombone/tuba chords punctuating the rhythm at every first beat of the bar, which sounds remarkably similar to those heard in Rialto Ripples, from which Datameister mocked up. Could be be wrong though.

[Datameister 2,044]

Sorry, your wording is confusing me a little, but the trombone blasts in my "Rialto Ripples" are from the actual recording of that cue. "Rialto Ripples" was chopped up and looped a lot in the film, so most of the actual content in that build-up is gone, but they did leave those blasts of low brass in there. So I went into the DVD rip and isolated a few (three?) of those from the surrounding music, used some artificial reverb to make them sound natural, and then dropped them in over the looped percussion from the OST wherever the sheet music called for them. I had to simulate quicker rhythms in a couple of parts and I even had to change the pitch in one part, but all those trombone blasts are taken from the same three originals, I think, and they're all from the DVD rip of "Rialto Ripples." Hope this helps!

[DinoDude65 0]

I've been reading through this thread, and I'm really interested in "Wompi's Wrench". I don't know why it's called that, but I think it MIGHT go right after "Ludlow's Speech". When the men in the hard hats turn to see the SS Venture coming toward the dock, that's when I think it may start. It fights nicely, and adds a Jaws effect to the scene. Thoughts?

[Datameister 2,044]

"Wompi's Wrench" does indeed come right after "Ludlow's Speech", but it would have started after the boat crashed into the dock. The unused ending of "Ludlow's Speech" would have scored everything through the crash.

[Jay 37,370]

Yea sorry DinoDude, the opening post of this thread just hasn't been updated in a while. Maybe that will be a nice afternoon project for me today!

[Jay 37,370]

OK I just massively updated the main post. It still could use some more detailed information, but all the important stuff is there. Check it out, let me know what you think, and let me know if you find any mistakes. Thanks!

[DinoDude65 0]

I have a question though...

Your list says that the Theme from The Lost World was meant to play during the credits. That track is 3:33, and the credits last for about seven minutes. Does that pose a problem?

[Jay 37,370]

They also re-recorded the The From Jurassic Park for the OST and the film's end credits

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Sorry, your wording is confusing me a little, but the trombone blasts in my "Rialto Ripples" are from the actual recording of that cue. "Rialto Ripples" was chopped up and looped a lot in the film, so most of the actual content in that build-up is gone, but they did leave those blasts of low brass in there. So I went into the DVD rip and isolated a few (three?) of those from the surrounding music, used some artificial reverb to make them sound natural, and then dropped them in over the looped percussion from the OST wherever the sheet music called for them. I had to simulate quicker rhythms in a couple of parts and I even had to change the pitch in one part, but all those trombone blasts are taken from the same three originals, I think, and they're all from the DVD rip of "Rialto Ripples." Hope this helps!

What I meant is that the music heard in the film where Roland Tembo loads the darts the into his rifle - Truck stop/Rescuing Sarah tracked into the scene - sounds more like a composite of several elements. One of them at least being the trombone blasts heard earlier in Rialto Ripples, or from perhaps somewhere else in the score.

My point being is that it sounds like more than just Rescuing Sarah alone.

[Datameister 2,044]

Ohhhhhhhhh, I gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I'll have to take a listen to that when I get a chance...

[DinoDude65 0]

I posted this on Jurassic Park Legacy, but I'm sure you all will be more interested in it:

I was experimenting with the "Wompi's Wrench" scene, where the SS Venture crashes into the dock. The heavy percussion begins right when the security guard appears in the cabin door, and continues (perfectly on cue, I might add) through to when the Tyrannosaurus breaks out of the cargo hold.

Also, there were a few minutes of silence when everyone is checking out the boat. I filled it in with the first 45 seconds of "Ludlow's Demise", which was tracked into the map reading scene with Malcolm, Ajay, and Roland before the Tyrannosaurus intrudes on the camp.

It fit beautifully. Some creepy whistles and strings come in whenever everyone is getting on the S.S. Venture, which highlights the mystery of the ship.

I don't know if John Williams wrote the beginning of Ludlow's Demise for this scene, but it fits really well. I think it was a last minute composition to replace "The Compies Dine" for the map-reading scene.

Thoughts?

[Datameister 2,044]

The beginning of the OST track "Ludlow's Demise" is the first part of the cue "Rialto Ripples", which really was written for the T-rex scene in the camp. It was edited substantially in the film, but I think the part you're talking about was used correctly. It wasn't tracked.

Which few minutes of silence are you referring to, by the way? I think "Wompi's Wrench" would have started either right as the boat hit the dock or shortly thereafter - and up till that point, the unused part of "Ludlow's Speech" would been growing louder and louder and faster and faster.

[Jay 37,370]

DinoDude, you seem to be confused by things that have already been figured out, and are documented in the first post of this thread.

 

"Ludlow's Speech" [not on the OST at all] begins where it does in the film, the establishing shot of InGen as a crowd is gathered to hear Ludlow speak. In the final film, the music fades out when the crowd hears something in the ocean and everyone turns to look, but as written and recorded the cue continues all the way up until the barge smashes into the dock.

 

"Wompi's Wrench" [presented in its entirely on the OST in the track "The Compys Dine" from 2:47-end] was written for the scenes of Malcolm, Sarah, Ludlow and crew examining the barge, finding the dead crew members, etc. It was completely dropped from the final film

 

"Monster On The Loose" [not on the OST at all] begins with the T-Rex emerging from the cargo hold

 

The first 45 seconds of "Ludlow's Demise" (OST track 12) that you mentioned are in fact the first 45 seconds of the cue "Rialto Ripples". This was not "tracked into the map reading scene" - the map reading scene you mentioned is exactly where the cue "Rialto Ripples" starts! It was never meant to be heard at the end of the film as you moved it to. And it was not a "last minute composition to replace The Compys Dine for the map reading scene" - you seem to be confused by the fact that on the OST, at 2:47 in to the track called "The Compys Dine", it segues to "Wompi's Wrench". In other words, if you wanted to listen to the OST chronologically, after you hit the 2:47 point in "The Compys Dine", you need to next listen to the first 1:35 of "Ludlow's Demise".

 

Hope that clarified things, and I recommend reading through the first post of this thread for a hopefully clearer version of what I just said

[GoodMusician 56]

This may or may not change how things line up, but there are some small microedits in the sequence of music from "Heading North' until "Whompi's Wrench." I'm gonna try to give a tiny break down.

"Heading North"s opening minute is omitted in the film. I also think that it was recorded in two segments becuase right as the next start opens you hear the opening click associated with the opening of a take. Williams will on occasion do this in cues (record them in pieces) even though they're written as one. Good Example of this is how ' Saving Sarah' on the album is only a fraction of the actual cue "Truck Stop" but it obviously has a clean opening.

The reason I bring that up is if you give just an extra moment, and let that first minute sync up with Roland and ludlow talking, then continue the cue after the briefest of pauses as Roland puts on his hat (earlier than in the film).

(You can watch the proper syncing of a video I made here: JP Legacy "Company of Death" )

The importance here is to sync up the dramtic music as they look out the helicopter and see the rex. Then also, the shot of Ludlow staring up at the helicopter had been extended so it had to be shortened slightly.

As the cut then moves to the "InGen" shot, 12m3 "Ludlows Speech" should start immediately, and not late. This would mean that the cue would end slightly earlier than in the film, giving some more room for the ending of the cue. If we had the actual recording, we could then sync it up to the film and see exactly where "Whompi's Wrench" begins. I also wonder if maybe they are just simply alternate's of eachother. "Whompie's Wrench being something that could be used instead of the extended ending to "Ludlows Speech" (ie: everything after how it ends in the film).

[Jay 37,370]

Yea, or its possible Whompi's Wrench starts later, and the ending of the cue is an alternate for the T-Rex emerging from the cargo hold

We need the sketch scores or an official release with good liner notes!

[Datameister 2,044]

"Heading North"s opening minute is omitted in the film. I also think that it was recorded in two segments becuase right as the next start opens you hear the opening click associated with the opening of a take. Williams will on occasion do this in cues (record them in pieces) even though they're written as one.

I don't see what the point would have been - there's silence at that moment in the cue anyway, and it's not a long cue, so it could easily have been recorded as written and then split up by the editor.

Good Example of this is how ' Saving Sarah' on the album is only a fraction of the actual cue "Truck Stop" but it obviously has a clean opening.

Of course it has a clean opening - that's the beginning of the cue! lol

[Jay 37,370]

Yea I was confused by that statement too

[GoodMusician 56]

dunno why i was thinking pain of glass was attached to it lol...

my point in mentioning that the cue was recorded that way was that perhaps it was recorded as two halves or they closed the small gap in sound between the two by a little because in the film the gap does need to be a moment longer.

[DinoDude65 0]

DinoDude, you seem to be confused by things that have already been figured out, and are documented in the first post of this thread.

"Ludlow's Speech" [not on the OST at all] begins where it does in the film, the establishing shot of InGen as a crowd is gathered to hear Ludlow speak. In the final film, the music fades out when the crowd hears something in the ocean and everyone turns to look, but as written and recorded the cue continues all the way up until the barge smashes into the dock.

"Wompi's Wrench" [presented in its entirely on the OST in the track "The Compys Dine" from 2:47-end] was written for the scenes of Malcolm, Sarah, Ludlow and crew examining the barge, finding the dead crew members, etc. It was completely dropped from the final film

"Monster On The Loose" [not on the OST at all] begins with the T-Rex emerging from the cargo hold

The first 45 seconds of "Ludlow's Demise" (OST track 12) that you mentioned are in fact the first 45 seconds of the cue "Rialto Ripples". This was not "tracked into the map reading scene" - the map reading scene you mentioned is exactly where the cue "Rialto Ripples" starts! It was never meant to be heard at the end of the film as you moved it to. And it was not a "last minute composition to replace The Compys Dine for the map reading scene" - you seem to be confused by the fact that on the OST, at 2:47 in to the track called "The Compys Dine", it segues to "Wompi's Wrench". In other words, if you wanted to listen to the OST chronologically, after you hit the 2:47 point in "The Compys Dine", you need to next listen to the first 1:35 of "Ludlow's Demise".

Hope that clarified things, and I recommend reading through the first post of this thread for a hopefully clearer version of what I just said

If you listen to the first minute of Ludlow's Demise, it replaced the last minute of The Compies Dine, Before Wompi's Wrench starts. The last minute of Compies Dine has the new Island motif playing over and over. It builds up until Roland's flashlight goes out, then it begins to fade out. (This was replaced with the beginning of Ludlow's Demise) Rialto Ripples THEN starts. (Ludlow's Demise second minute until the "Jumping Ship" section)

GoodMusician made a video of this and posted it on Jurassic Park Legacy's main page. It's listed as "Don't Move; Alternate" (http://www.jplegacy.org/index2.php?load=jurassicpark2/tlwunleashed.shtml) It does include the Wompi's Wrench cue, however. (Which should start when Ludlow and the guard enter the cabin of the S.S. Venture)

I'm sorry if I'm hard to understand; this is the best way to explain it

[Jay 37,370]

I'm sorry, but you're just wrong, and GoodMusician's old video is wrong too, as it was made before we had the sheet music. Maybe he'll re-do his videos now to be more accurate?

[Datameister 2,044]

If you listen to the first minute of Ludlow's Demise, it replaced the last minute of The Compies Dine, Before Wompi's Wrench starts. The last minute of Compies Dine has the new Island motif playing over and over. It builds up until Roland's flashlight goes out, then it begins to fade out. (This was replaced with the beginning of Ludlow's Demise) Rialto Ripples THEN starts. (Ludlow's Demise second minute until the "Jumping Ship" section)

GoodMusician made a video of this and posted it on Jurassic Park Legacy's main page. It's listed as "Don't Move; Alternate" (http://www.jplegacy....unleashed.shtml) It does include the Wompi's Wrench cue, however. (Which should start when Ludlow and the guard enter the cabin of the S.S. Venture)

I'm sorry if I'm hard to understand; this is the best way to explain it

Sorry, DinoDude, but you're just...wrong. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from, so here are the facts:

* The first ~1:35 of the track "Ludlow's Demise" is the first ~1:35 of the cue "Rialto Ripples." The rest of the track "Ludlow's Demise" is the cue "Ludlow's End."

* The first 2:47 of the track "The Compys Dine" is the cue "The Compys Dine." The rest is the cue "Wompi's Wrench."

* The cue "Rialto Ripples" was edited quite a bit in the film, and you can barely hear the early measures of it, but we know its real structure from the sheet music.

I think the problem is that you're using track titles, rather than cue titles. That's fine if you're just talking casually about the OST, but for in-depth discussions of which music belongs where, it's better to use the original cue titles - and if you need to talk about a track from the OST, make sure it's clear that that's what you mean. Sometimes a track will have the same name as a cue, but they won't be the same piece of music from start to finish.

[DinoDude65 0]

Okay. I've uploaded some .MP3's to help explain my point:

Alright. The "First Minute of Ludlow's Demise" plays in the film while Roland, Ajay, and Malcolm are inspecting the map. It replaces the remaining minute of "The Compies Dine" Which does NOT appear in the film. I also included that; right before the cue "Wompi's Wrench" begins in the OST.

What I'm asking is where is the First Minute of Ludlow's Demise supposed to be in the film and where is the remaining minute of "The Compies Dine" supposed to go in the film?

BTW, I cut these out with Audacity. The section of "The Compies Dine" that I'm talking about starts on this little clip at about 22 seconds; I just included a little bit of the track for context.

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-36e46134.html

Here are the .MP3s

[Datameister 2,044]

Your "First Minute of Ludlow's Demise" file is the first minute of the cue "Rialto Ripples." I don't remember exactly how the timing was supposed to work out, and I don't have the DVD right now, but it would have preceded the scene when the T-rex comes into the camp. However, you've cut off the next part of "Rialto Ripples" - the percussion comes in right after that, and that's just the next part of the same cue.

Your "End of Compies Dine" file starts out with the end of the cue "The Compys Dine" (which is in the film, as intended!). At 0:23 in your file, the cue "Wompi's Wrench" begins. This would have started right after the boat crashes into the dock, I believe. It is NOT the end of the cue "The Compys Dine", even though it was included as the end of the track "The Compys Dine."

[Jay 37,370]

Dinodude, I'm honestly baffled that you are still confused, and can think of no way to explain it to you better than myself and Datameister already have on this page, and as is already laid out in the first post of the thread. Everything we are saying is right, all music is accounted for, there are no mysteries left. Your theories are just... wrong. Sorry.

[GoodMusician 56]

My old edits are just that... old.. .they're out dated. Its what I THOUGHT at the time, given absolutely no way to check... I tried to figure out the score and I think I did a bang up job. But I got a few things wrong. The conductors score we have, every written note, is pretty straight forward. No alternates.

[Datameister 2,044]

You did indeed do a very fine job with the information that was available at the time.

[Jay 37,370]

Absolutely!

[DinoDude65 0]

Everything makes sense now. I was mistaken on "Wompi's Wrench". I thought that the loud brass was when the cue starts; but I checked the OST track, and realized that it included the bit from what I thought went to the "map-reading scene". Everything is accounted for. Thanks for the intense clarification and I'm sorry for any hassel I caused anyone.

BTW, where can I look through the conductor's score? Is it somewhere on this site?

[Datameister 2,044]

No apologies necessary! Glad the confusion has been cleared up.

[Demondm810 399]

I may have asked this before (can't remember) but is this definitely the most hacked-up JW score for a Spielberg film?

[DinoDude65 0]

I say it's pretty hacked-up. I don't know if it's the most, though.

[Demondm810 399]

I wonder if it because of changes to the film. Spielberg is generally quite reverent when it comes to the score...

[Jay 37,370]

The film wasn't actually changed TOO much after scoring. Most of the unused music still lines up with the final cut

[Datameister 2,044]

Yeah. I think Spielberg (or whoever) just genuinely didn't agree with some of Williams' choices. The biggest departure is the ending; instead of using the subdued, haunting, quiet ending that Williams wrote, they plopped in the freaking island fanfare. (The former still fits the timing of the film, though.)

[TownerFan 4,983]

Curiously enough, William Stromberg wrote this on his Facebook page about the dropped "The Hunt" cue:

Conrad Pope, who orchestrated this cue, once told me the whole story behind this cue's deletion and how heartbroken Williams was over it. It's too much to relate here now, but I guess Spielberg wanted more continuity in the thematic material and thus tracked in the main theme. Big mistake, I think.

[King Mark 3,631]

TLW score in the film seems more hacked up than Phantom Menace and AotC

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Yeah. I think Spielberg (or whoever) just genuinely didn't agree with some of Williams' choices. The biggest departure is the ending; instead of using the subdued, haunting, quiet ending that Williams wrote, they plopped in the freaking island fanfare.

again.

remember JP

TLW score in the film seems more hacked up than Phantom Menace and AotC

you never see true spielberg bashing though

Curiously enough, William Stromberg wrote this on his Facebook page about the dropped "The Hunt" cue:

Conrad Pope, who orchestrated this cue, once told me the whole story behind this cue's deletion and how heartbroken Williams was over it. It's too much to relate here now, but I guess Spielberg wanted more continuity in the thematic material and thus tracked in the main theme. Big mistake, I think.

What's with Stromberg on TLW?

Is he recording a re-recording of the complete score???

[Ollie 1,059]

Curiously enough, William Stromberg wrote this on his Facebook page about the dropped "The Hunt" cue:

Conrad Pope, who orchestrated this cue, once told me the whole story behind this cue's deletion and how heartbroken Williams was over it. It's too much to relate here now, but I guess Spielberg wanted more continuity in the thematic material and thus tracked in the main theme. Big mistake, I think.

I agree, the music heard in the final cut is distracting, it's obvious it wasn't composed for the scene and even if I didn't know any better I would have felt it was an awkward choice / edit.

It just goes to show you that even great friends can disagree, fortunately Williams and Spielberg are mature adults to not let it ruin their relationship.

The great thing is that Williams included the original cue on the album, it's one of my favorite tracks from TLW.

[Datameister 2,044]

Interesting.

By the way, I'd say TPM is still a lot more chopped up than TLW.

[DinoDude65 0]

Does anyone here know how the Roundup/Hunt sequence would've played out with the original cue? I know, for example, after the parasaur is taken down it shows Roland and Ajay looking at the Tyrannosaur footprint, and in the background is Burke and Dieter. Later, however, Burke is shown running up to Dieter talking about the Compsognathus. This is obviously a continuity error.

So how would this scene play out with the original cue in place?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I can't give you an answer here, but the cue you're referring to is Big Feet. Which follows directly after the The Hunt.

[DinoDude65 0]

Yeah, I know that. I was wondering how the scene preceding it would go. I think I heard somewhere that Burke and the other guy watching the Pachycephalosaurus doesn't belong right there in the middle of the scene. The order of the scene is all out of place...

[DinoDude65 0]

I've just noticed something about "The Raptors Appear"; it doesn't play continually through the film. It ends with part of "High Bar", and the ending from the OST is used in "Ceiling Tiles" for the film. Is this noted in the composer's score?

[Datameister 2,044]

The ending of "The Raptors Appear" is indeed supposed to be heard again in "High Bar and Ceiling Tiles", so what you're hearing is the score as it was intended to play out in that point. There were, of course, other modifications to the music in these scenes, though. The beginning of "High Bar and Ceiling Tiles" was tracked from later in the cue, the big climax was replaced with the lost world theme, stuff like that. (And note that "High Bar and Ceiling Tiles" is all one cue, with one title. There aren't two separate cues called "High Bar" and "Ceiling Tiles.")

As for "The Raptors Appear", I don't remember what modifications were made to it in the film, if any, but the version on the OST is complete and correct.

[Demondm810 399]

"They cut you from the team"?

[TownerFan 4,983]

Curiously enough, William Stromberg wrote this on his Facebook page about the dropped "The Hunt" cue:

Conrad Pope, who orchestrated this cue, once told me the whole story behind this cue's deletion and how heartbroken Williams was over it. It's too much to relate here now, but I guess Spielberg wanted more continuity in the thematic material and thus tracked in the main theme. Big mistake, I think.

I agree, the music heard in the final cut is distracting, it's obvious it wasn't composed for the scene and even if I didn't know any better I would have felt it was an awkward choice / edit.

It just goes to show you that even great friends can disagree, fortunately Williams and Spielberg are mature adults to not let it ruin their relationship.

The great thing is that Williams included the original cue on the album, it's one of my favorite tracks from TLW.

Yes, at least we have the cue on the OST

I think it could be quite disheartening for a composer to see that a very elaborate, thoroughly composed piece of music like this one goes down on the cutting room floor in lieu of a hacked edit. But Williams is a consummate professional and I'm sure he takes these things with philosophy.

However, in the Music Featurette on the War of the Worlds DVD Williams says that it happens every time with Spielberg that a cue intended for a certain scene is then moved somewhere else and he says most of the time it works fine as well.

[Datameister 2,044]

You have to have a tough skin to be a film composer. They put hours of really hard, emotionally-involving work into creating a very personal interpretation of the film, yet there's always the possibility that the director (or someone else) will say that a given cue needs to be completely rewritten - or that they'll need to hire a different composer.

[Ollie 1,059]

You have to have a tough skin to be a film composer. They put hours of really hard, emotionally-involving work into creating a very personal interpretation of the film, yet there's always the possibility that the director (or someone else) will say that a given cue needs to be completely rewritten - or that they'll need to hire a different composer.

And they take unmerciful criticism from film message boards.