Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The other day, I was listening to this score again, and it struck me how absolutely brilliant this one really is. Williams completely captures the spirit of Rowlings writings. With The Order of the Phoenix still fresh in my memory, I was surprised to hear how well Hedwig's theme fits to it. Williams captures both the magic and the underlying threat of Harry's powers and the world he lives in. Once again, I get the feeling that Williams was the one person involved in the movie who really knew what it was all about.

It is too bad Williams had such a busy schedule last year. If he could have devoted more of his time to Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, I'm sure the score would have been spot on again. As it is now, the score may flow good with the movie, but listening to the first one again makes me realize there were a lot of missed oppurtunities. While Harry's theme is great, and the new themes for Fawkes and the Chamber are also wonderful, NOTHING can compare to Hedwig's Theme. Here's hoping that Williams will have a lot of time to score the third film, and come up with a wonderful dark score.

- Marc, who hummed music to go with the scene at the end of chapter 1, book 5.

[Heir_of_Slytherin 0]

Breathmask, you are so right. After reading this, I listened to 'Platform Nine and Three-Quarters', I love that part after the choral voices with the upbeat brass marking the entry into the Great Hall. Another moment is in 'Baby Harry's Arrival', with the sad strings perfectly capturing Hagrid's sadness in parting with Harry.

[Romão 2,274]

I love the unreleased music in Ollivander's shop.

Romão, who thinks Harry Potter and the PP is a masterpiece and Hedwig's theme is the latest instantly classic theme to come out of the movies.

[Adam 1]

I've played Hedwig's Theme on the piano in public places and I do notice a certain recognition from people that I would usually only get from Star Wars, ET, Indiana Jones, Superman - music from an earlier era. Like the themes just mentioned, he benefits from the phenomenon of the movies themselves which penetrate the culture in a way most of his films don't. But, also, he obviously deserves credit for writing music that conjures up the spirit of the films so accurately.

- Adam

[scissorhands 16]

Like the themes just mentioned, he benefits from the phenomenon of the movies themselves which penetrate the culture in a way most of his films don't.

SW, ET, IJ and Superman wouldn't have succeded so much without Williams' music.

HP would have been this successful anyway, even with a different composer.

[Adam 1]

My entire quote (the next sentence you left out) more or less acknowledges JW's importance in helping these films be successful. "he obviously deserves credit for writing music that conjures up the spirit of the films so accurately."

He's written many great scores that are not well known because the films have been less successful. Therefore, my point still holds.

Furthermore, we don't know how these films would have done without JW. I think all of them would have been less successful to varying degrees. But it would obviously depend on who composed the scores. James Horner? Tangerine Dream? Quincy Jones? You get the picture.

- Adam

[Hlao-roo 389]

When I contemplate a Tangerine Dream-scored <I>Star Wars</I>, I wet my pants with excitement.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I absolutely agree with you. I dream of getting the full release of Philosopher's Stone, I really hope it's made. Perhaps we should petition! I'm also looking foward to Prisoner of Azkaban, John will have so much more time so can put in more effort with this score. It deserves it too, the third remains many people's (including my own) favourite in the series. Of course the rest aren't far behind at all!

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

I think the time of the first HP score is yet to come, but not within the horizon of just a few years, at least not while Williams is active and keeps people eager for his new music. Many people gave the first Harry Potter too little time and repudiated it way too soon, falling instead for the Lord of the Rings scores headlessly. Philosopher's score is pretty rewarding, and as much as trite this may sound, it grows on those who allow for it to do so with time.

Chamber score is no doubt different. It has great themes, but Philosopher's Stone score is far more compact whereas Chamber of Secrets has stand-alone cues that can be played in a random order with almost no big harm on overall compactness. It works like a compilation where each cue is viable in and of itself but it's somehow beyond the music's reach to tell a story where you're kept in sort of suspense from the first cue to the last.

To cut it short, Philosopher's Stone is like a symphony whereas Chamber of Secrets is like Hungarian Dances. Pick your own fave.

[Justin 2]

I agree, PS is a great score. Specifically I'd like to mention Voldemort's theme. When I first heard it I didn't think much of it, but after reading Order of Phoniex it truly is amazing how well it fits the character. It's mysterious, not overly evil by itself, the theme almost depicts someone creeping or lurking. Fantastic.

Justin -Who also loves the Chamber theme but thinks it sucks that it wasn't used in the film hardly.

[hitman20 0]

Hedwig's theme is one of my favorite from John Williams. It has some of the best variations of a theme that I've ever heard. I also like the Chess Game track on the soundtrack. It has some of the best percussion effects around.

*I just dont see how the Lord of the Rings won over Harry Potter when Harry Potter was a much superior score.

[Romão 2,274]

I agree, Hitman.

And Voldemort's theme is nto in-your-face evil, but somehow it fits the character to perfection.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

*I just dont see how the Lord of the Rings won over Harry Potter when Harry Potter was a much superior score.

Yeah..yeah...bla...bla...whatever.... :roll:

Stefancos- who KNOWS the right score won that year.

[Adam 1]

I'm not at all surprised that LOTR won although I thought HP was better. But its not like there is a scientific method for evaluating best score. Its always going to be quite subjective. Luckily for us, Stefancos' point of view is apparently tantamount to absolute truth and we don't have to wonder anymore.

- Adam, who is fascinated by the message board phenomenon of "arguments" that do away with any pretense of evidence or reasoning and simply involve different sides asserting opposite positions and then seeing who can come across sounding the most authoritative, as though the force of their personality alone should be enough to convince us.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I'm not at all surprised that LOTR won although I thought HP was better. But its not like there is a scientific method for evaluating best score. Its always going to be quite subjective. Luckily for us, Stefancos' point of view is apparently tantamount to absolute truth and we don't have to wonder anymore.

- Adam, who is fascinated by the message board phenomenon of "arguments"  that do away with any pretense of evidence or reasoning and simply involve different sides asserting opposite positions and then  seeing who can come across sounding the most authoritative, as though the force of their personality alone should be enough to convince us.

Adam, I definitely see where you're coming from, but you might want to reconsider the tone of Mr Cosman's post...

[Adam 1]

I've reconsidered it and it sounds the same to me. His tone is that of someone who has read a thousand posts from people ragging on LOTR in one fashion or another and he's trying to stick a needle in the eye of the people who say such things by showing his utter intransiance and assuredness on the issue. If there's another point he's trying to make by way of sarcasm or irony, he didn't do a very good job of it. At any rate, the general phenomenon I'm speaking of is alive and well which, if I didn't make myself clear, is not any bother to me (thus the wording "fascinated" not "irritated").

- Adam

- Adam

[Hlao-roo 389]

I dunno...I just think his tone is slightly jocular. Yes, I'm willing to bet he is a little tired of the HP gushers, but I don't think he's wielding any needles, either.

I'm trying to imagine myself posting a similar post, and my intended tone would be mildly self-mocking, and yes, maybe a little ironic. Don't you ever roll your eyes at others, ridiculing their opinions in jest? Yeah, yeah, there you go again...c'mon people, you know you're wrong [you flash your best disdainful, mockingly self-satisfied smile]...you know I'm the expert here!

[Adam 1]

I guess at this point its better to just let him speak for himself if he's so inclined. He's no doubt getting a kick out of reading our debating of the nuances of his ever so slight post - the irony quotient, the jocularity level, etc. My wording can come across as kind of strong, especially since I hardly ever use emoticons, but, again, my intent was not to treat his post as some major offense if that's how it came across. But I think what I said still holds true even accounting for the fact that he's no doubt not taking his post completely seriously as you point out.

- Adam

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I agree, PS is a great score. Specifically I'd like to mention Voldemort's theme.

Both the Voldemort and the You-Know-Who theme, actually. At least I think that's what the two themes are meant to represent. Plus I think the "danger theme" heard in Hedwig's theme is in fact the Slytherin theme, particularly in COS.

Marian - who thinks PS is a masterpiece of orchestration and thematic writing, and definitely one of Williams all-time best scores.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I guess at this point its better to just let him speak for himself if he's so inclined. He's no doubt getting a kick out of reading our debating of the nuances of his ever so slight post - the irony quotient, the jocularity level, etc. My wording can come across as kind of strong, especially since I hardly ever use emoticons, but, again, my intent was not to treat his post as some major offense if that's how it came across. But I think what I said still holds true even accounting for the fact that he's no doubt not taking his post completely seriously as you point out.

- Adam

I do have a tendency to make a mountain out of a mole hill...my friends (yes, I have some) find I'm rather melodramatic -- odd, considering that here I was known as cynical for awhile before I tried to debunk that image.

All petty debates aside, I do appreciate your attempts to encourage more cogent and respectful argumentation here, both in your own posts and in your expression of your "fascination"... I'm glad you've been around here more often of late.

[Justin 2]

Oh, but it does appear several times in the underscore. But of course, the concert version is unmatchable.

Indeed. However I will forever be dissapointed and outraged that it was used in the opening of the Chamber scene.

Justin -Who thinks it's terribly annoying to hear the Sorcerer's Stone theme when the Chamber of Secrets is being opened.

[Adam 1]

I think of the Sorcerer's Stone theme becoming the Mystery that Surrounds the Unfolding Events theme in COS. It even works for the most part to think of the theme this way for the first movie which, then, would make its use more thematically consistent. But, nonetheless, it obviously overlaps with the Chamber theme and is arranged in the same fashion as the first movie - no doubt because of the time constraints JW had and the adaptation by Ross. Unfortunately, COS is sort of a mess like this, both thematically and just as an overall underscore. But the final result was much still much better than what I was prepared for.

'Hlaa-roo' - thank you for the kind comments. I've enjoyed reading your posts - you're a welcome exception to the phenomonon I described. Don't even mind a good debate over a moehill - although in this case I became self-conscious that we were debating a human being who might have something to say about the matter. (:

I have been around more lately but am likely to disappear for stretches of time (to the delight of at least a few, no doubt) until someone says something to raise my ire, once again ...

- Adam

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Justin -Who also loves the Chamber theme but thinks it sucks that it wasn't used in the film hardly.

I know what you mean! I was part-disappointed when it wasn't even used in the Dueling the Basilisk scene, although I absolutely loved it anyway. Another reason why I'd like a full release of the score for the two movies, the Chamber motive only made it to two tracks (not including the concert one). I never thought of the two evil themes to be called "Voldemort" and "You Know Who", that's excellent. But I agree that the three-note "you know who" is used for a lot of suspensful/climatic parts by changing key and a crescendo; like discovering Hagrid opened the Chamber, and the opening of the Chamber itself. I always get a sad-feeling after listening to PS, probably because of the missing underscore, but partially because I have so much fun!

Peter-Who fell in love with music thanks to Philosopher's Stone, and thinks it deserved the Oscar

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I agree with Marian, and I have said many times that the last 2 minutes of Hedwigs theme to be some of the best JW scoring, or should I say favorite, either way I love it. I love the Chamber of Secrets, Fawkes Theme, and Dobby's theme. Love the theme for the flying car. I am prepared to love the Dementor theme, Buckbeaks theme, Lupins theme, Sirius' theme etc etc.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Its Sorcerer's Stone to those of us on THIS side of the Atlantic.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

And "Philosopher's" to everyone else, including the author of the book.

I think of the Sorcerer's Stone theme becoming the Mystery that Surrounds the Unfolding Events theme in COS. It even works for the most part to think of the theme this way for the first movie which, then, would make its use more thematically consistent.

Definitely true for the second movie, and it works so well musically that I don't really mind it being used there anymore. The big problem is, it clearly IS a theme for the stone in the first movie, plus when it's now become a general mystery theme, he'd actually have to use it for the dog in part 3...

Regarding the Voldemort/You-Know-Who themes, that was actually an idea by someone else on some other Potter thread on this board, but after analysing the score in the movie, I'm convinced it's true (and brilliant ). Particularly because in the climax scene, we hear the You-Know-Who theme until Voldemort is revealed, then Williams switches to the Voldemort theme.

The themes in the first score are very confusing anyway, especially because of Williams once again mis-labelling his own themes. I can't help it, the so-called "Hogwarts Forever" is in fact the Gryffindor theme, just listen to the music in the Sorting Hat sequence for example. There's still a Hogwarts theme, but in the movie it's also been used for Diagon Alley. On the album, it only appears as a very brief variation when the camera pans from the lake with the first-years' boats to the castle.

Anyway, I like the dual themes approach. Voldemort has a theme as You-Know-Who and another one as Voldemort. Harry has one theme for himself and his family (thoughts) and another one for himself "as himself".

Regarding the Basilisk duel cue, I once believed I discovered that the choral bit was based on one of the themes...I can't remember which one it was, and I'd have to listen to them to verify it, but if it's true at all, it must have been either the Slytherin theme or one of Voldemort's two themes - I believe it was the latter.

Marian - who probably never before analyzed a score as much as PS (with the possible exception of FOTR).

[Justin 2]

I never noticed the duel themes for Voldemort before, but it is very clear in the scene in Olivander's where they are talking about You Know Who the theme is very clear, but only part of it. Neat.

Justin

[Adam 1]

Great post, Marian. I would only say that the stone plays a very similar role in the first HP as the chamber does in the second which makes the using of the same musical theme more consistent though, like you, I wouldn't want to hear it in every movie. After all, the theme was supposed to convey the emotional qualities of mystery, danger, etc. that the stone represented, not so much the stone itself (I think). But, anyway, a minor point I suppose.

The Hogwarts theme, which you call it, appears to be a late edition to his score. Both cases it appears, it seems to be used over the orginal music that was written. My impression is that it was written to replace his original Diagon Alley music and then tracked in again when they show the dinner hall. Its similarity to the boat sequence is probably not deliberate since the theme didn't appear to be part of his original score. But I'll go back and listen to the track.

- Adam

[Adam 1]

Never mind, it does seem deliberate which makes me think that maybe the music was written for a scene that didn't make the movie and then tracked in in both instances where it appears prominently. It also means I should have listened to it before writing my last paragraph. Whoops.

- Adam

[Lurker 5]

Its Sorcerer's Stone to those of us on THIS side of the Atlantic.

Not in Canada.

Neil

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Never mind, it does seem deliberate which makes me think that maybe the music was written for a scene that didn't make the movie and then tracked in in both instances where it appears prominently.

Hmm, what makes you think the theme was a late addition or written for a different scene? I.e. did you read something about this, or how do you tell it's a late addition?

It's pretty clear that the two instances where the cue is played (Diagon Alley & Entry into the Great Hall) are the same recording. However, from what I've read (I admit I never closely compared the two myself), the latter should be the cue like it was recorded, while the Diagon Alley occurence is a cut & paste job that replaced the original DA music.

In any case, the movie seems to handle the score pretty well and I didn't notice many edits, so I always assumed the cue has always been there for the Great Hall...

Marian - wondering.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Luckily for us, Stefancos' point of view is apparently tantamount to absolute truth and we don't have to wonder anymore.

Wrong again, fanboy.

The absolute truth is a myth, my post only demonstrates that i disagree with your wrong opinion that Harry Potter And The Philosophers Stone is a better score then Shore's first LOTR score.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Stefancos-

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I've reconsidered it and it sounds the same to me. His tone is that of someone who has read a thousand posts from people ragging on LOTR in one fashion or another and he's trying to stick a needle in the eye of the people who say such things by showing his utter intransiance and assuredness on the issue.

Wrong, my I have read to many post of John Williams fanboys who cried out bloody murder when Howard Shore won an oscar over Williams Harry Potter score, which i think is outstanding, but subpar compared to FOTR.

I always laugh out loud when I read another statement by someone here that ANYTHING Williams has written is a thousant times better then the best work of any other composer, treating Williams not like the outstanding composer that he is, but as God on earth, alive and scoring films..

If there's another point he's trying to make by way of sarcasm or irony, he didn't do a very good job of it.

My apologies, if my sarcastic cynisism is not up to the standards you are used to, i will strive to do better.

Stefancos- who's gonna read EVERY one of Alan's post to see how it's done.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dunno...I just think his tone is slightly jocular.  Yes, I'm willing to bet he is a little tired of the HP gushers, but I don't think he's wielding any needles, either.

As a foreigner, i'm not sure I understand the word "jocular", or the phrase "wielding any needles"

I'm trying to imagine myself posting a similar post, and my intended tone would be mildly self-mocking, and yes, maybe a little ironic.  

Irony...from you?????

Don't you ever roll your eyes at others, ridiculing their opinions in jest?  Yeah, yeah, there you go again...c'mon people, you know you're wrong [you flash your best disdainful, mockingly self-satisfied smile]...you know I'm the expert here!

Yeah, there is nothing like mocking other people, and their opinions, sop you don't have to concentrate on the festering shitheap that is your life.

You should try it sometimes, Adam.

Stefancos-

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But I think what I said still holds true even accounting for the fact that he's no doubt not taking his post completely seriously as you point out.

- Adam

Why would I take my own posts seriously?

Stefancos-

[Adam 1]

Editing my post.

- Adam

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Adem, it IS used in the film, only a little later in the scene, when they are having dinner.

[Adam 1]

You beat me to it. I just was listening to it once again after I posted. Once again, I should try doing my research before posting. Anyway, my edited post wrongly asserted that track 7 didn't appear in the movie which it does. I also thought that it didn't match up quite right but, at this point, not having the movie to see right now, I have no confidence in that judgement so I'd defer to Marian on this point.

- Adam

[King Mark 3,631]

I can't help it, the so-called "Hogwarts Forever" is in fact the Gryffindor theme.

possible,because if I remember that theme is played when Hermione and Harry are sorted into Gryffindor.

and then there's that sort of odd bumbling motif when Ron is sorted,the one that's reprised in track 1 of the CoS c.d,which in the movie corresponds to Ron appearing in the flying car through Harry's window,so maybe that bit is "Ron's Theme",anyway it would fit him well.

K.M.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

I think there's another character who's sorted into Gryffindor without the theme, but from the rest of that cue and the rest of the score, I'm still convinced I'm placing the theme correctly.

Marian - who also likes the medieval-sounding theme later in the score.

[King Mark 3,631]

Justin -Who thinks it's terribly annoying to hear the Sorcerer's Stone theme when the Chamber of Secrets is being opened.

ah yes,now that you point that out,that's a big part of what's wrong with the CoS score in the movie.I mean imagine if the Ark theme started playing in full regalia as Indy steals the Sankara stones in Temple of Doom.

CoS c.d. album= one of Williams best all around albums

CoS score in the movie=one of Williams weakest scores.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think there's another character who's sorted into Gryffindor without the theme:)

.

I think that's Neville.Maybe the "Hogwarts" theme represents the friendship between Harry,Hermione and Ron,as it seems to be associated to the 3 of them more than the school itself.

K.M.Almost finished reading GoF now,and has sucessfully managed to avoid all the spoilers to OotP.

[Adam 1]

Here I can be much more confident in agreeing with Marian about the Gryffindor theme. COS was kind of an anomoly from the point of view of thematic consistency and the theme doesn't appear much at all if I remember correctly in that movie.

As for your responses, Stefancos, I'm surprised, given that you don't take your own posts that seriously, that you seemingly took mine so seriously. Being called a fanboy by the JWFAN message board's most omnipresent member (who owns how many JW cds?) is not as insulting or credible as you seem to think.

You've modified your original statement to that of a mere disagreement, though, you apparently felt compelled not to state it that way in your orginal post. If you believe that absolute truth is a myth you obviously wouldn't "KNOW" what you said you did, especially for a topic this subjective. But, I guess the lesson learned, is that I'm not to take what you say litterally or apply the rules of logic since you are merely mocking others so as not to have to "concentrate on the festering shitheap that is your life", as you admirably admitted. As for your advice on my own life, I'm feeling fine about it but, thank you, I appreciate the concern.

And for those who would say "ANYTHING Williams has written is a thousant times better then the best work of any other composer, treating Williams not like the outstanding composer that he is, but as God on earth, alive and scoring films", I feel no need to respond since I've never said anything of the sort, nor would you be able to quote anything I said that came close. In fact, I generally go out of my way to apply reasoning, evidence, etc. But you should be thanking those who do say these things since they give you ammunition to put on display the persona of sneering superiority which you've tried so hard to cultivate. My "fascination" continues.

- Adam, wondering if he's ruined his chances at a free AI promo CD

[HPFAN 1]

Am i the only one who liked Fluffy's Harp?

[King Mark 3,631]

It's a functionnal source cue for the movie,but I don't think it's anything really special musically.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Am i the only one who liked Fluffy's Harp?

Echoes of E.T....

...I pretty much agree with Marc...other than the odd combined timbral effect, the piece isn't particularly special. Of course, none of the score is really that special, except the so-called "Hedwig's Theme."

Cue MornNB to return from his unexpected sabbatical to laud the score's orchestrations once again...

[Romão 2,274]

The first harry potter is a classic score in every regard in my book and one of the strongest thematicly in recent years. there are tons of great themes in this thing. Hedwig's theme seems to incorporate 3 or more themes, voldemort has 2 themes, harry has 2 themes...it's just an amazing score. And I think even before you watched the movie, if you had already read any HP book before, you listen to Hedwig's theme and it's just amazing how right it sounds. I tend to see the HP scores kinda like the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack: music based on books (this is specially true on COS, since the score on the movie is not that great). The HP scores sound almost as JW read the books and decided to write a symphony based on them.

Romão, who loves the goblin motif that it's played in The Gringotts Vault and that anyone hardly mentions.

[King Mark 3,631]

this is specially true on COS, since the score on the movie is not that great). The HP scores sound almost as JW read the books and decided to write a symphony based on them.  

.

That's what I was saying,the CoS c.d. is excellent and one of Williams more enjoyable albums lately,but the music doesn't fit very well in the film somehow,especially all of the cues that aren't on the album.

a complete release of the PS score would be great,but a complete release of CoS would be redundant IMO.

K.M.

[Adam 1]

Actually, quite a bit of unreleased music from the PS score appears on the COS soundtrack, like the forest music and the award thingy at the end. Of course, its an adapted version with slightly different tempos and so forth. And a full release of COS would have quite a few really nice unreleased cues. I like the short main theme arrangements as the camera pans down and a few other spots.

- Adam

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Hedwig's theme seems to incorporate 3 or more themes

Without listening to it, three come to my mind: The main theme (which doesn't seem to be associated with anything in particular), the Slytherin theme, and that other theme heard only in Mr Longbottom Flies - I still haven't figured out what this stands for.

Marian - who never even noticed a Goblin theme.